Hi,

Just a thought to get some discussion going on the above topic.

Hydroponics and Acers!! ???

I've never worked with a full hydroponic system, but when I studied
mycorrhizal fungi, we used to grow trees in little envelopes. You know
what a hanging file system is, in a filing cabinet? It was like that,
only each file contained a root system.

I'm going to suggest that growing maples in turface is essentially a
hydroponic system. In the hydroponic systems I've seen for greenhouse
lettuce, the plants were grown in rockwool with a circulating nutrient
system; how different is that from how we already grow bonsai? They get
nutrients from the liquid phase, they get plenty of aeration,etc.

Now, if what you are really asking is whether growing an Acer seedling
indoors in the winter with artificial lighting is a good idea, I'd have to
say no, not unless you really want to spend a lot of money.

But then, I like bonsai because it is low-tech.

Nina

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi,

Just a thought to get some discussion going on the above topic.

Hydroponics and Acers!! ???

I've never worked with a full hydroponic system, but when I studied
mycorrhizal fungi, we used to grow trees in little envelopes. You know
what a hanging file system is, in a filing cabinet? It was like that,
only each file contained a root system.

I'm going to suggest that growing maples in turface is essentially a
hydroponic system. In the hydroponic systems I've seen for greenhouse
lettuce, the plants were grown in rockwool with a circulating nutrient
system; how different is that from how we already grow bonsai? They get
nutrients from the liquid phase, they get plenty of aeration,etc.

Now, if what you are really asking is whether growing an Acer seedling
indoors in the winter with artificial lighting is a good idea, I'd have to
say no, not unless you really want to spend a lot of money.

But then, I like bonsai because it is low-tech.

Nina

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi,

Just a thought to get some discussion going on the above topic.

Hydroponics and Acers!! ???

I've never worked with a full hydroponic system, but when I studied
mycorrhizal fungi, we used to grow trees in little envelopes. You know
what a hanging file system is, in a filing cabinet? It was like that,
only each file contained a root system.

I'm going to suggest that growing maples in turface is essentially a
hydroponic system. In the hydroponic systems I've seen for greenhouse
lettuce, the plants were grown in rockwool with a circulating nutrient
system; how different is that from how we already grow bonsai? They get
nutrients from the liquid phase, they get plenty of aeration,etc.

Now, if what you are really asking is whether growing an Acer seedling
indoors in the winter with artificial lighting is a good idea, I'd have to
say no, not unless you really want to spend a lot of money.

But then, I like bonsai because it is low-tech.

Nina

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi,

Just a thought to get some discussion going on the above topic.

Hydroponics and Acers!! ???

I've never worked with a full hydroponic system, but when I studied
mycorrhizal fungi, we used to grow trees in little envelopes. You know
what a hanging file system is, in a filing cabinet? It was like that,
only each file contained a root system.

I'm going to suggest that growing maples in turface is essentially a
hydroponic system. In the hydroponic systems I've seen for greenhouse
lettuce, the plants were grown in rockwool with a circulating nutrient
system; how different is that from how we already grow bonsai? They get
nutrients from the liquid phase, they get plenty of aeration,etc.

Now, if what you are really asking is whether growing an Acer seedling
indoors in the winter with artificial lighting is a good idea, I'd have to
say no, not unless you really want to spend a lot of money.

But then, I like bonsai because it is low-tech.

Nina

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Nina- you always come up with such interesting ideas!
The only real difference between hydroponic growing and bonsai growing is
the nutrient system. Now, for those of us who use pellets in combination
with liquid fertilizer, the principal difference is in the bonsai soil vs.
the hydroponic medium. Yes?
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nina Shishkoff"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:16 PM
Subject: [IBC] Hydroponics and Acers!! ???


Hi,

Just a thought to get some discussion going on the above topic.

Hydroponics and Acers!! ???

I've never worked with a full hydroponic system, but when I studied
mycorrhizal fungi, we used to grow trees in little envelopes. You know
what a hanging file system is, in a filing cabinet? It was like that,
only each file contained a root system.

I'm going to suggest that growing maples in turface is essentially a
hydroponic system. In the hydroponic systems I've seen for greenhouse
lettuce, the plants were grown in rockwool with a circulating nutrient
system; how different is that from how we already grow bonsai? They get
nutrients from the liquid phase, they get plenty of aeration,etc.

Now, if what you are really asking is whether growing an Acer seedling
indoors in the winter with artificial lighting is a good idea, I'd have to
say no, not unless you really want to spend a lot of money.

But then, I like bonsai because it is low-tech.

Nina


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Nina- you always come up with such interesting ideas!
The only real difference between hydroponic growing and bonsai growing is
the nutrient system. Now, for those of us who use pellets in combination
with liquid fertilizer, the principal difference is in the bonsai soil vs.
the hydroponic medium. Yes?
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nina Shishkoff"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:16 PM
Subject: [IBC] Hydroponics and Acers!! ???


Hi,

Just a thought to get some discussion going on the above topic.

Hydroponics and Acers!! ???

I've never worked with a full hydroponic system, but when I studied
mycorrhizal fungi, we used to grow trees in little envelopes. You know
what a hanging file system is, in a filing cabinet? It was like that,
only each file contained a root system.

I'm going to suggest that growing maples in turface is essentially a
hydroponic system. In the hydroponic systems I've seen for greenhouse
lettuce, the plants were grown in rockwool with a circulating nutrient
system; how different is that from how we already grow bonsai? They get
nutrients from the liquid phase, they get plenty of aeration,etc.

Now, if what you are really asking is whether growing an Acer seedling
indoors in the winter with artificial lighting is a good idea, I'd have to
say no, not unless you really want to spend a lot of money.

But then, I like bonsai because it is low-tech.

Nina


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Nina- you always come up with such interesting ideas!
The only real difference between hydroponic growing and bonsai growing is
the nutrient system. Now, for those of us who use pellets in combination
with liquid fertilizer, the principal difference is in the bonsai soil vs.
the hydroponic medium. Yes?
Marty


Hydroponics is just growing plants in a nonsoil circulating nutrient
system. The niftiest one I've seen is a hydroponic fogger where the roots
just sit bathed in fog. But the basic difference is that in soil the
nutrients are stored on clays (which are positively charged), whereas in
hydroponics, the nutrients aren't stored at all; they are constantly
added.

The trouble with any of these systems is that they have to be clean.
Oomycetes and algae *love* water, and once you get them in the nutrient
system you need to add fungicides and algicides, or the plants die or they
tubes get clogged.

Nina

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Nina- you always come up with such interesting ideas!
The only real difference between hydroponic growing and bonsai growing is
the nutrient system. Now, for those of us who use pellets in combination
with liquid fertilizer, the principal difference is in the bonsai soil vs.
the hydroponic medium. Yes?
Marty


Hydroponics is just growing plants in a nonsoil circulating nutrient
system. The niftiest one I've seen is a hydroponic fogger where the roots
just sit bathed in fog. But the basic difference is that in soil the
nutrients are stored on clays (which are positively charged), whereas in
hydroponics, the nutrients aren't stored at all; they are constantly
added.

The trouble with any of these systems is that they have to be clean.
Oomycetes and algae *love* water, and once you get them in the nutrient
system you need to add fungicides and algicides, or the plants die or they
tubes get clogged.

Nina

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/19/2004 5:03:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Hydroponics is just growing plants in a nonsoil circulating nutrient
system. The niftiest one I've seen is a hydroponic fogger where the roots
just sit bathed in fog. But the basic difference is that in soil the
nutrients are stored on clays (which are positively charged), whereas in
hydroponics, the nutrients aren't stored at all; they are constantly
added.

The trouble with any of these systems is that they have to be clean.
Oomycetes and algae *love* water, and once you get them in the nutrient
system you need to add fungicides and algicides, or the plants die or they
tubes get clogged.

Nina


I have not been to EPCOT in a long time, but the Land Exhibit had a number
of demonstration systems. One used the fog you mention, It hung the plants on
wires and moved then on an overhead belt through banks of misters and then
into the "open" greenhouse air, then back into the mister. The plants looked
healthy and they claimed to use the produce in the Land restaurant. Of course
this was "Disney."

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/19/2004 5:03:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Hydroponics is just growing plants in a nonsoil circulating nutrient
system. The niftiest one I've seen is a hydroponic fogger where the roots
just sit bathed in fog. But the basic difference is that in soil the
nutrients are stored on clays (which are positively charged), whereas in
hydroponics, the nutrients aren't stored at all; they are constantly
added.

The trouble with any of these systems is that they have to be clean.
Oomycetes and algae *love* water, and once you get them in the nutrient
system you need to add fungicides and algicides, or the plants die or they
tubes get clogged.

Nina


I have not been to EPCOT in a long time, but the Land Exhibit had a number
of demonstration systems. One used the fog you mention, It hung the plants on
wires and moved then on an overhead belt through banks of misters and then
into the "open" greenhouse air, then back into the mister. The plants looked
healthy and they claimed to use the produce in the Land restaurant. Of course
this was "Disney."

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Over the last year I have been growing four identical Ficus microcarpa in a
red lava soil in plastic pots, four plants total, two in a hydroponic bath
and two on a shelf nearby.
The plants not in the hydroponic bath are watered daily with reverse osmosis
water and fertilized weekly with half strength fertilizer. Some long acting
fertilizer is placed on them at several month intervals. The hydroponic
plants are only fertilized by the hydroponic bath which goes on three times
a day for one half hour. The bath is changed with fresh solution about every
two months. One of the hydroponic plants was given away a few months ago
and up to that point the two hydroponic plants were the same. Three plants
remain.
What would you guess are the results of my non-scientific experiment?

Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
In a message dated 1/19/2004 5:03:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Hydroponics is just growing plants in a nonsoil circulating nutrient
system. The niftiest one I've seen is a hydroponic fogger where the roots
just sit bathed in fog. But the basic difference is that in soil the
nutrients are stored on clays (which are positively charged), whereas in
hydroponics, the nutrients aren't stored at all; they are constantly
added.

The trouble with any of these systems is that they have to be clean.
Oomycetes and algae *love* water, and once you get them in the nutrient
system you need to add fungicides and algicides, or the plants die or they
tubes get clogged.

Nina


I have not been to EPCOT in a long time, but the Land Exhibit had a number
of demonstration systems. One used the fog you mention, It hung the plants on
wires and moved then on an overhead belt through banks of misters and then
into the "open" greenhouse air, then back into the mister. The plants looked
healthy and they claimed to use the produce in the Land restaurant. Of course
this was "Disney."

Billy on the Florida Space Coast

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/19/2004 5:33:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

What would you guess are the results of my nonscientific experiment?

No significant difference.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Over the last year I have been growing four identical Ficus microcarpa in a
red lava soil in plastic pots, four plants total, two in a hydroponic bath
and two on a shelf nearby.
The plants not in the hydroponic bath are watered daily with reverse osmosis
water and fertilized weekly with half strength fertilizer. Some long acting
fertilizer is placed on them at several month intervals. The hydroponic
plants are only fertilized by the hydroponic bath which goes on three times
a day for one half hour. The bath is changed with fresh solution about every
two months. One of the hydroponic plants was given away a few months ago
and up to that point the two hydroponic plants were the same. Three plants
remain.
What would you guess are the results of my non-scientific experiment?

Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
In a message dated 1/19/2004 5:03:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Hydroponics is just growing plants in a nonsoil circulating nutrient
system. The niftiest one I've seen is a hydroponic fogger where the roots
just sit bathed in fog. But the basic difference is that in soil the
nutrients are stored on clays (which are positively charged), whereas in
hydroponics, the nutrients aren't stored at all; they are constantly
added.

The trouble with any of these systems is that they have to be clean.
Oomycetes and algae *love* water, and once you get them in the nutrient
system you need to add fungicides and algicides, or the plants die or they
tubes get clogged.

Nina


I have not been to EPCOT in a long time, but the Land Exhibit had a number
of demonstration systems. One used the fog you mention, It hung the plants on
wires and moved then on an overhead belt through banks of misters and then
into the "open" greenhouse air, then back into the mister. The plants looked
healthy and they claimed to use the produce in the Land restaurant. Of course
this was "Disney."

Billy on the Florida Space Coast

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/19/2004 5:33:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

What would you guess are the results of my nonscientific experiment?

No significant difference.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Snip

Hydroponics for long term bonsai growth looks like a lot of bother and
expense for dubious results.

However, there is another similar technology called aeroponics. I plan to
use an aeroponic cloner (about $120) to root acer palmatum cuttings as well
as a few other species. Aeroponic cloning is supposed to produce very high
yields (90%) for a wide variety of woody cuttings.

There's tons of info on the Web aeroponics. Check

http://www.biocontrols.com/Impulse/p...l?Product.html

for basic info, prices, etc.

Later
Ray Schmitt, Aliso Viejo, CA
Cold Hardiness Zone 10b
AHS Heat Zone 4
Sunset Climate Zone 22



************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++