I have used many mica pots, but so far I found no problem with the tree.
Budi
----- Original Message -----
From: Ireneu Castillo
To:
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:01 AM
Subject: [IBC] Mica Pots


Hello All!

I'm interested to buy a big pot for one tree, but ceramic pots are too
expensive and then I had thought in mica pots, because they are cheaper
than ceramics.

It's recommendable to use this kind of pots instead ceramic? Can I
damage the tree?

Thank you a lot!

-Ireneu-


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I have used many mica pots, but so far I found no problem with the tree.
Budi
----- Original Message -----
From: Ireneu Castillo
To:
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:01 AM
Subject: [IBC] Mica Pots


Hello All!

I'm interested to buy a big pot for one tree, but ceramic pots are too
expensive and then I had thought in mica pots, because they are cheaper
than ceramics.

It's recommendable to use this kind of pots instead ceramic? Can I
damage the tree?

Thank you a lot!

-Ireneu-


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago (antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for obvious
reasons.

2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing "plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements. Every art does
and for simple reasons. However, thinking that to be a negative is just
silly, and deriding bonsai for its elements of snootiness does the art and
enthusiasts no good. It's just part of this endeavor. Care about it or
not, but criticize it makes us look silly.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago (antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for obvious
reasons.

2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing "plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements. Every art does
and for simple reasons. However, thinking that to be a negative is just
silly, and deriding bonsai for its elements of snootiness does the art and
enthusiasts no good. It's just part of this endeavor. Care about it or
not, but criticize it makes us look silly.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago (antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for obvious
reasons.

2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing "plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements. Every art does
and for simple reasons. However, thinking that to be a negative is just
silly, and deriding bonsai for its elements of snootiness does the art and
enthusiasts no good. It's just part of this endeavor. Care about it or
not, but criticize it makes us look silly.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Ireneu & Mark - this thread has been explored ad infinitum a couple of years
ago at this site. It all boils down to the argument of artificial flowers
vs. real ones.
AHA! You must stop me here. Artificial flowers are NOT real flowers, but
both mica pots and ceramic pots are artificial. Well, you have me there.
HOWEVER - artists have been using ceramics for thousands of years. There
has to be a reason. A beautiful ceramic bonsai pot can sit on a shelf all
by itself and be a source of visual enjoyment all by itself. I can't say
the same for mica pots.
NEVERTHELESS - I agree with the mica protagonists who argue for the positive
qualities found in mica.
End of discussion - Mica is great for training purposes:
ceramics are great for great bonsai.
Marty
P.S. This is not an expression of snobbery. M.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ireneu Castillo"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:21 AM
Subject: [IBC] Mica Pots


Thank you, Andy

I'm from Barcelona (Catalonia-Spain), and here we have a lot of heat and
sun in
summer. I had heard that some people had problems with mica pots because
they absorb
more heat than ceramic due to his black colour. It's really this?

-Ireneu-


Andy Rutledge wrote:

Of course you can damage the tree - but not by use of mica pots. Mica
pots
are great pots for training and they don't look half bad, either. Go
for
it, save a buck and get a good pot.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas



************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Ireneu & Mark - this thread has been explored ad infinitum a couple of years
ago at this site. It all boils down to the argument of artificial flowers
vs. real ones.
AHA! You must stop me here. Artificial flowers are NOT real flowers, but
both mica pots and ceramic pots are artificial. Well, you have me there.
HOWEVER - artists have been using ceramics for thousands of years. There
has to be a reason. A beautiful ceramic bonsai pot can sit on a shelf all
by itself and be a source of visual enjoyment all by itself. I can't say
the same for mica pots.
NEVERTHELESS - I agree with the mica protagonists who argue for the positive
qualities found in mica.
End of discussion - Mica is great for training purposes:
ceramics are great for great bonsai.
Marty
P.S. This is not an expression of snobbery. M.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ireneu Castillo"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:21 AM
Subject: [IBC] Mica Pots


Thank you, Andy

I'm from Barcelona (Catalonia-Spain), and here we have a lot of heat and
sun in
summer. I had heard that some people had problems with mica pots because
they absorb
more heat than ceramic due to his black colour. It's really this?

-Ireneu-


Andy Rutledge wrote:

Of course you can damage the tree - but not by use of mica pots. Mica
pots
are great pots for training and they don't look half bad, either. Go
for
it, save a buck and get a good pot.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas



************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Ireneu & Mark - this thread has been explored ad infinitum a couple of years
ago at this site. It all boils down to the argument of artificial flowers
vs. real ones.
AHA! You must stop me here. Artificial flowers are NOT real flowers, but
both mica pots and ceramic pots are artificial. Well, you have me there.
HOWEVER - artists have been using ceramics for thousands of years. There
has to be a reason. A beautiful ceramic bonsai pot can sit on a shelf all
by itself and be a source of visual enjoyment all by itself. I can't say
the same for mica pots.
NEVERTHELESS - I agree with the mica protagonists who argue for the positive
qualities found in mica.
End of discussion - Mica is great for training purposes:
ceramics are great for great bonsai.
Marty
P.S. This is not an expression of snobbery. M.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ireneu Castillo"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:21 AM
Subject: [IBC] Mica Pots


Thank you, Andy

I'm from Barcelona (Catalonia-Spain), and here we have a lot of heat and
sun in
summer. I had heard that some people had problems with mica pots because
they absorb
more heat than ceramic due to his black colour. It's really this?

-Ireneu-


Andy Rutledge wrote:

Of course you can damage the tree - but not by use of mica pots. Mica
pots
are great pots for training and they don't look half bad, either. Go
for
it, save a buck and get a good pot.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas



************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Andy Rutledge wrote:

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago (antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for obvious
reasons.

This is scary. Andy and I actually *somewhat* agree. I like mica pots for the
reasons already mentioned. I use them here at home, and at this point I feel that
they are appropriate for trees in training, really large trees in general that are
going to be overly heavy in a ceramic pot, and for local and club exhibitions. I
don't know exactly where I'd draw the line in terms of acceptability, though.
Major exhibits, perhaps, although I saw several trees in mica pots at the
exposition last October at the North Carolina State Arboretum and they looked
really good--they obviously had been oiled.


2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing "plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements.

"Snooty" really isn't the best term here. "Particular," perhaps. When I have a
large tree that I feel is worth showing, I will probably look around for a ceramic
pot. I realize that my bigger trees are going to take a number of years to really
be presentable. When they are presentable, I want to have them look their best.
To wait on the larger ceramic pots a few years also helps me to be patient with a
larger tree, and not rush it in it's training. I have been doing bonsai long
enough (5 years) so that I'm beginning to get a sense of the longer-term aspect of
the art--not rushing a tree, but working on it steadily and watching it progress
through several seasons. And in terms of display, Andy's right. Whether the pot
is glazed or unglazed, a ceramic pot, especially a well-made one, is generally
better looking than a mica pot.

snip

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Andy Rutledge wrote:

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago (antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for obvious
reasons.

This is scary. Andy and I actually *somewhat* agree. I like mica pots for the
reasons already mentioned. I use them here at home, and at this point I feel that
they are appropriate for trees in training, really large trees in general that are
going to be overly heavy in a ceramic pot, and for local and club exhibitions. I
don't know exactly where I'd draw the line in terms of acceptability, though.
Major exhibits, perhaps, although I saw several trees in mica pots at the
exposition last October at the North Carolina State Arboretum and they looked
really good--they obviously had been oiled.


2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing "plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements.

"Snooty" really isn't the best term here. "Particular," perhaps. When I have a
large tree that I feel is worth showing, I will probably look around for a ceramic
pot. I realize that my bigger trees are going to take a number of years to really
be presentable. When they are presentable, I want to have them look their best.
To wait on the larger ceramic pots a few years also helps me to be patient with a
larger tree, and not rush it in it's training. I have been doing bonsai long
enough (5 years) so that I'm beginning to get a sense of the longer-term aspect of
the art--not rushing a tree, but working on it steadily and watching it progress
through several seasons. And in terms of display, Andy's right. Whether the pot
is glazed or unglazed, a ceramic pot, especially a well-made one, is generally
better looking than a mica pot.

snip

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Andy Rutledge wrote:

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago (antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for obvious
reasons.

This is scary. Andy and I actually *somewhat* agree. I like mica pots for the
reasons already mentioned. I use them here at home, and at this point I feel that
they are appropriate for trees in training, really large trees in general that are
going to be overly heavy in a ceramic pot, and for local and club exhibitions. I
don't know exactly where I'd draw the line in terms of acceptability, though.
Major exhibits, perhaps, although I saw several trees in mica pots at the
exposition last October at the North Carolina State Arboretum and they looked
really good--they obviously had been oiled.


2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing "plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements.

"Snooty" really isn't the best term here. "Particular," perhaps. When I have a
large tree that I feel is worth showing, I will probably look around for a ceramic
pot. I realize that my bigger trees are going to take a number of years to really
be presentable. When they are presentable, I want to have them look their best.
To wait on the larger ceramic pots a few years also helps me to be patient with a
larger tree, and not rush it in it's training. I have been doing bonsai long
enough (5 years) so that I'm beginning to get a sense of the longer-term aspect of
the art--not rushing a tree, but working on it steadily and watching it progress
through several seasons. And in terms of display, Andy's right. Whether the pot
is glazed or unglazed, a ceramic pot, especially a well-made one, is generally
better looking than a mica pot.

snip

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Andy Rutledge wrote:

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago (antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for obvious
reasons.

This is scary. Andy and I actually *somewhat* agree. I like mica pots for the
reasons already mentioned. I use them here at home, and at this point I feel that
they are appropriate for trees in training, really large trees in general that are
going to be overly heavy in a ceramic pot, and for local and club exhibitions. I
don't know exactly where I'd draw the line in terms of acceptability, though.
Major exhibits, perhaps, although I saw several trees in mica pots at the
exposition last October at the North Carolina State Arboretum and they looked
really good--they obviously had been oiled.


2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing "plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements.

"Snooty" really isn't the best term here. "Particular," perhaps. When I have a
large tree that I feel is worth showing, I will probably look around for a ceramic
pot. I realize that my bigger trees are going to take a number of years to really
be presentable. When they are presentable, I want to have them look their best.
To wait on the larger ceramic pots a few years also helps me to be patient with a
larger tree, and not rush it in it's training. I have been doing bonsai long
enough (5 years) so that I'm beginning to get a sense of the longer-term aspect of
the art--not rushing a tree, but working on it steadily and watching it progress
through several seasons. And in terms of display, Andy's right. Whether the pot
is glazed or unglazed, a ceramic pot, especially a well-made one, is generally
better looking than a mica pot.

snip

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

When you go to the pub you wear jeans and a sweatshirt and to a gala
event you wear a suit and tie. It's that simple,'nough said.
My 2 cents
Richard Marcus

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of Craig Cowing
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:25 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Mica Pots

Andy Rutledge wrote:

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they
must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are
coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful
and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts
quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago
(antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for
obvious
reasons.

This is scary. Andy and I actually *somewhat* agree. I like mica pots
for the
reasons already mentioned. I use them here at home, and at this point I
feel that
they are appropriate for trees in training, really large trees in
general that are
going to be overly heavy in a ceramic pot, and for local and club
exhibitions. I
don't know exactly where I'd draw the line in terms of acceptability,
though.
Major exhibits, perhaps, although I saw several trees in mica pots at
the
exposition last October at the North Carolina State Arboretum and they
looked
really good--they obviously had been oiled.


2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty
endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the
elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality
and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing
"plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts
our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements.

"Snooty" really isn't the best term here. "Particular," perhaps. When
I have a
large tree that I feel is worth showing, I will probably look around for
a ceramic
pot. I realize that my bigger trees are going to take a number of
years to really
be presentable. When they are presentable, I want to have them look
their best.
To wait on the larger ceramic pots a few years also helps me to be
patient with a
larger tree, and not rush it in it's training. I have been doing
bonsai long
enough (5 years) so that I'm beginning to get a sense of the longer-term
aspect of
the art--not rushing a tree, but working on it steadily and watching it
progress
through several seasons. And in terms of display, Andy's right.
Whether the pot
is glazed or unglazed, a ceramic pot, especially a well-made one, is
generally
better looking than a mica pot.

snip

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** **********************
********
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
--
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

When you go to the pub you wear jeans and a sweatshirt and to a gala
event you wear a suit and tie. It's that simple,'nough said.
My 2 cents
Richard Marcus

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of Craig Cowing
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:25 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Mica Pots

Andy Rutledge wrote:

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they
must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are
coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful
and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts
quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago
(antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for
obvious
reasons.

This is scary. Andy and I actually *somewhat* agree. I like mica pots
for the
reasons already mentioned. I use them here at home, and at this point I
feel that
they are appropriate for trees in training, really large trees in
general that are
going to be overly heavy in a ceramic pot, and for local and club
exhibitions. I
don't know exactly where I'd draw the line in terms of acceptability,
though.
Major exhibits, perhaps, although I saw several trees in mica pots at
the
exposition last October at the North Carolina State Arboretum and they
looked
really good--they obviously had been oiled.


2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty
endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the
elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality
and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing
"plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts
our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements.

"Snooty" really isn't the best term here. "Particular," perhaps. When
I have a
large tree that I feel is worth showing, I will probably look around for
a ceramic
pot. I realize that my bigger trees are going to take a number of
years to really
be presentable. When they are presentable, I want to have them look
their best.
To wait on the larger ceramic pots a few years also helps me to be
patient with a
larger tree, and not rush it in it's training. I have been doing
bonsai long
enough (5 years) so that I'm beginning to get a sense of the longer-term
aspect of
the art--not rushing a tree, but working on it steadily and watching it
progress
through several seasons. And in terms of display, Andy's right.
Whether the pot
is glazed or unglazed, a ceramic pot, especially a well-made one, is
generally
better looking than a mica pot.

snip

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** **********************
********
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
--
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

When you go to the pub you wear jeans and a sweatshirt and to a gala
event you wear a suit and tie. It's that simple,'nough said.
My 2 cents
Richard Marcus

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of Craig Cowing
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:25 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Mica Pots

Andy Rutledge wrote:

Hi Mark,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hill"
Hi all...
Here's a question to prolong this thread ..... Why are mica pots not
preferred show containers?
snip
Is it simply because ceramic pots cost much more, therefore they
must be
better ?
Sounds a bit snooty to me !!
Mark Hill
-------------------------------

I'll bite. Yes, it's snooty - for the same reason that diamonds are
coveted
over cubic zirconia, though from most views, the CZ looks beautiful
and
dazzling. The reason is twofold (at least):

1) This is an art. The art of bonsai display is one that touts
quality and,
in many cases, is concerned with ties to the artistry of long ago
(antique
chinese pots for high quality bonsai in an exhibit) or of today (great
modern potters). Also, the subtle aesthetic quality that an excellent
bonsai pot can convey as part of a bonsai display is prized for
obvious
reasons.

This is scary. Andy and I actually *somewhat* agree. I like mica pots
for the
reasons already mentioned. I use them here at home, and at this point I
feel that
they are appropriate for trees in training, really large trees in
general that are
going to be overly heavy in a ceramic pot, and for local and club
exhibitions. I
don't know exactly where I'd draw the line in terms of acceptability,
though.
Major exhibits, perhaps, although I saw several trees in mica pots at
the
exposition last October at the North Carolina State Arboretum and they
looked
really good--they obviously had been oiled.


2) We're human. When dealing with artistry - an admittedly snooty
endeavor
(and define "snooty" at your peril) - the specific quality of the
elements
involved has an impact on the viewer (from small to enormous) AND the
exhibitor. Humans generally enjoy exhibiting and viewing rare quality
and
great craftsmanship more than we enjoy exhibiting and viewing
"plastic"
make-do elements. Often, what we know about an objet d'art impacts
our
enjoyment.

So sure, recognize that bonsai artistry has snooty elements.

"Snooty" really isn't the best term here. "Particular," perhaps. When
I have a
large tree that I feel is worth showing, I will probably look around for
a ceramic
pot. I realize that my bigger trees are going to take a number of
years to really
be presentable. When they are presentable, I want to have them look
their best.
To wait on the larger ceramic pots a few years also helps me to be
patient with a
larger tree, and not rush it in it's training. I have been doing
bonsai long
enough (5 years) so that I'm beginning to get a sense of the longer-term
aspect of
the art--not rushing a tree, but working on it steadily and watching it
progress
through several seasons. And in terms of display, Andy's right.
Whether the pot
is glazed or unglazed, a ceramic pot, especially a well-made one, is
generally
better looking than a mica pot.

snip

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** **********************
********
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** **********************
********
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
--
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++