[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:30 AM
Subject: [IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai


Who ever has been advising you about bonsai is way off the beam. You just
don't go out and dig a tree from the wilds, stick it in a pot, and think
it's a bonsai. The transition from collected material to bonsai is a long
and complicated procedure. The most important consideration is the roots.
Trees in nature tend to have roots running far out from the trunk. When you
dig them out, you destroy a large share of the roots. It may take several
years in a training box for the tree to establish a tight bundle of roots
close in to the trunk. The second consideration is branching. Most wild
trees have crossed branches, dead wood, excessive high branches which shade
out the lower ones, and other growth which detracts from the over-all shape
of the tree. All of these need to be corrrected during the training
process. All this is said not to disuade you from starting with a collected
tree, but just to let you know what you're in for when you do.
Marty

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

"Isom, Jeff (EM, PTL)" wrote:

Mike,

Please listen to all the advice you've seen in response to your question.


snip

Finally, one piece of advice gleaned from
experience and which no one else gave you....take into consideration how far
and over what type of terrain you will have to carry your prize(s). The
biggest one I collected last spring was, of course, the longest from the
car. It took my son and I a couple of hours to carry it back to the car and
we were both ready to drop when we finally made it. Dirt is heavy! So are
thick trunks. Be prepared.

Good luck - hope you find something nice and, after following everyone's
advice, are able to successfully keep it alive.

Jeff Isom
Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39

Excellent advice about big trees. Taking into account the size may halp you make
the decision as to whether it's worth the effort.

If you're going to dig a big tree (which I wouldn't advise right now) dig it and
turn around and put it in the ground and wait a couple of years until you'll know
what to do with it. If you work on it now right after digging it you may make
mistakes that will be impossible to correct. Collect some smaller trees and work
with them first.

Remember that a bonsai does not become one all by itself. From the "bonsai kits"
that are so prevalent people often get the impression that the seed is planted in a
bonsai pot and it grows up to be a miniature tree with about as much effort on the
part of the owner as that required for a Chia Pet. A bonsai is trained, and
whether the tree comes from the wild, from a garden center or grown from seed the
same is true. It doesn't happen by itself.

The above may seem irrelevant to Mike's query, but I feel it is relevant. A bonsai
does not usually get dug up in nature and dropped into a pot.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

In a message dated 3/4/2004 9:21:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes:

Mike:

I'm from eastern PA (actually the Poconos is in the east not west).
I've been out a few times and as much as a I have heard tales of
wonderful pitch pines and other pine varieties I've yet to
find much
myself.


Ditto on Bill's comment. There is a lot growing out in the woods. Unfortunately, the only things of interest to me would have required a very dangerous approach to collection, i.e, trees growing on the side of a precipitous mountain.

Importantly, you will need to have permission to collect from State land, and I can tell you this will not be the easiest thing to acquire. I once tried to gain permission to collect from State Managed Land in NJ, and it was an absolute waste of my time (
even with documentation to back my practice of the art).

You would do well to look in large nurseries, preferably old nurseries, where the stock has not been touched in the field for 10-30 years.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Persiano"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:43
Subject: [IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai



You would do well to look in large nurseries, preferably old nurseries,
where the stock has not been touched in the field for 10-30 years.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html


In response to this, does anyone have any experience with Jim Doyles old
field grown nursery stock?

My local club, here in Cincinnati, has the pleasure of participating in a
dig from this site. I would like to have an idea as to what species of trees
I might find.

Micheal, I seem to remember that you wrote an article for Bonsai Today,
about a Japanese Black Pine that you dug from there.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

You would do well to look in large nurseries, preferably old nurseries, where
the stock has not been touched in the field for 10-30 years.

DITTO to that comment.. SOME
of best you can find if YOU find
RIGHT nursery......
HOWEVER, for a beginner...
JUST looking and picking up to
eye level some nice nursery stock...
junipers, hollies, maples...
OH what a start!!!!!
And you can generally do away
with 1/3 to half the roots easily
with top trimming and maybe
fit it INTO a nice bonsai pot
right from start!!!!!!!

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

And you can generally do away
with 1/3 to half the roots easily
with top trimming and maybe
fit it INTO a nice bonsai pot
right from start!!!!!!!


Only if you are one of those for whom instant gratification is
too slow.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

thanks for all the help,

lastely does anyone know of a web site that has the various
trees that
can be found in pennsylvania?


Google for "Pennsylvania tree." But since Pa is part of the
eastern deciduous forest, any state along the US eastern seaboard
will have the same trees. Nothing endemic to Pa. that I am aware
of.

Go he http://www.treeguide.com/

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

In a message dated 3/4/2004 12:30:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes:


I have the opportunity to go out of the city into the western
Pennsylvania or the pocono's as they call it. I wanted to look for a
good bonsai tree to fit the nice Bonsai pot I have. I am going to be
looking for something with a nice, thick trunk, and not something that
is a stick in the mud :( Anyone have any suggestions on what makes a
good bonsai tree out here in PA? Any pictures of what grows around here
on the web? Also any techniques on how to do this? For
example root
pruning and such....
The chances of finding a "good" bonsai in the woods are slim. A tree with the right trunk thickness will probably be too tall with branches too high to be suitable for a bonsai pot. you have to be prepared to either collect saplings and let them grow awhi
le, or you will have to cut back a taller tree and train it to branch at a suitable height. either way it will take years.
I have crab apples that I collected from an old orchard 7 years ago. they were young trees that I had to cut way back. they are just starting to look good now.
You won't find the perfect bonsai tree in the woods unless you find the one in a million that was hit by lightning a few times. you would stand a better chance of finding a small tree with a thick trunk in a field that has been worked and trees are consta
ntly hacked. farms are a good places to look.
good luck with your trip.
SteveW
Long Island NY

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

Another good tool is a square ended shovel where the
cutting edge has been sharpened, and a hammering
device for driving the shovel into the ground, cutting
some of the smaller roots.

Kitsune Miko

--- Allen wrote:
Bring with you a good shovel, loppers, saw, maybe a
hatchet.
Another good lesson he taught us is this:
The most important part of bonsai is learning how to
keep a tree
healthy in a container! If you can't do this, all
the styling
techniques are useless !
Best of luck !

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

Since you live in Pennsylvania, you could also *quickly* join the Susquehanna Bonsai society and then participate in their group collecting trip at the end of this month (the 21st?). Then you could learn to collect a tree from people who know how to do it
, from a site with a diverse collection of collectible trees.

I belong to that club, and they helped me dig up a big ol' carpinus stump, which is doing extremely well, 2 years later.

Nina

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:30 AM
Subject: [IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai


Who ever has been advising you about bonsai is way off the beam. You just
don't go out and dig a tree from the wilds, stick it in a pot, and think
it's a bonsai. The transition from collected material to bonsai is a long
and complicated procedure. The most important consideration is the roots.
Trees in nature tend to have roots running far out from the trunk. When you
dig them out, you destroy a large share of the roots. It may take several
years in a training box for the tree to establish a tight bundle of roots
close in to the trunk. The second consideration is branching. Most wild
trees have crossed branches, dead wood, excessive high branches which shade
out the lower ones, and other growth which detracts from the over-all shape
of the tree. All of these need to be corrrected during the training
process. All this is said not to disuade you from starting with a collected
tree, but just to let you know what you're in for when you do.
Marty

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

"Isom, Jeff (EM, PTL)" wrote:

Mike,

Please listen to all the advice you've seen in response to your question.


snip

Finally, one piece of advice gleaned from
experience and which no one else gave you....take into consideration how far
and over what type of terrain you will have to carry your prize(s). The
biggest one I collected last spring was, of course, the longest from the
car. It took my son and I a couple of hours to carry it back to the car and
we were both ready to drop when we finally made it. Dirt is heavy! So are
thick trunks. Be prepared.

Good luck - hope you find something nice and, after following everyone's
advice, are able to successfully keep it alive.

Jeff Isom
Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39

Excellent advice about big trees. Taking into account the size may halp you make
the decision as to whether it's worth the effort.

If you're going to dig a big tree (which I wouldn't advise right now) dig it and
turn around and put it in the ground and wait a couple of years until you'll know
what to do with it. If you work on it now right after digging it you may make
mistakes that will be impossible to correct. Collect some smaller trees and work
with them first.

Remember that a bonsai does not become one all by itself. From the "bonsai kits"
that are so prevalent people often get the impression that the seed is planted in a
bonsai pot and it grows up to be a miniature tree with about as much effort on the
part of the owner as that required for a Chia Pet. A bonsai is trained, and
whether the tree comes from the wild, from a garden center or grown from seed the
same is true. It doesn't happen by itself.

The above may seem irrelevant to Mike's query, but I feel it is relevant. A bonsai
does not usually get dug up in nature and dropped into a pot.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

In a message dated 3/4/2004 9:21:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes:

Mike:

I'm from eastern PA (actually the Poconos is in the east not west).
I've been out a few times and as much as a I have heard tales of
wonderful pitch pines and other pine varieties I've yet to
find much
myself.


Ditto on Bill's comment. There is a lot growing out in the woods. Unfortunately, the only things of interest to me would have required a very dangerous approach to collection, i.e, trees growing on the side of a precipitous mountain.

Importantly, you will need to have permission to collect from State land, and I can tell you this will not be the easiest thing to acquire. I once tried to gain permission to collect from State Managed Land in NJ, and it was an absolute waste of my time (
even with documentation to back my practice of the art).

You would do well to look in large nurseries, preferably old nurseries, where the stock has not been touched in the field for 10-30 years.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Persiano"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:43
Subject: [IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai



You would do well to look in large nurseries, preferably old nurseries,
where the stock has not been touched in the field for 10-30 years.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html


In response to this, does anyone have any experience with Jim Doyles old
field grown nursery stock?

My local club, here in Cincinnati, has the pleasure of participating in a
dig from this site. I would like to have an idea as to what species of trees
I might find.

Micheal, I seem to remember that you wrote an article for Bonsai Today,
about a Japanese Black Pine that you dug from there.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

[IBC] Pennsylvania- Foraging for a Bonsai
 

You would do well to look in large nurseries, preferably old nurseries, where
the stock has not been touched in the field for 10-30 years.

DITTO to that comment.. SOME
of best you can find if YOU find
RIGHT nursery......
HOWEVER, for a beginner...
JUST looking and picking up to
eye level some nice nursery stock...
junipers, hollies, maples...
OH what a start!!!!!
And you can generally do away
with 1/3 to half the roots easily
with top trimming and maybe
fit it INTO a nice bonsai pot
right from start!!!!!!!