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[IBC] FW: [IBC] Please be gentle !!
First, thanks to all who recommended Jim Doyle's nursery here in central
PA. Visited him on Saturday. For those living in the area, I suggest dropping by. Jim's willing to talk at length with anyone willing to listen, and has an impressive collection of living artwork both indoors and outdoors. He's having a "Beginners Course" in mid March. Unfortunately, I'll probably have a bunch of bad habits by then. Special thanks to Mr. Jim Lewis for his explanation of my pending azalea harvest. I will leave the two plants in the ground until after they loose their flowers, them carefully dig them up, wash all the clay from their roots and re-pot them into something more acceptable. In the interim, should I fertilize the azalea's sometime this spring to strengthen them ? Mark Hill - Zone 6 PS ..... Rose above 32 today for 1/2 hour, then snowed !! Back to mid 20's again :-( ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] FW: [IBC] Please be gentle !!
In the interim, should I fertilize the azalea's sometime this spring to strengthen them ? No. Unless the soil is absolutely awful, once a shrub is established it seldom needs fertilization. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] FW: [IBC] Please be gentle !!
Unfortunately, the ground is almost solid clay, hence the 6 inch growth in 6 years !! Azalea have a very tight, compact root system. In clay soils -- as we have here too, in the heart of azalealand -- the hole you dig for the freshly unpotted plant often serves as another pot, and the roots never leave it. Few people realize this when they plant azalea and do not dig the holes wide enough (and dig them much too deep and thus flood the roots), so the plants don't grow well. This is undoubtedly what has happened in your case. I'd still not fertilize them. Chances are you will find that the root system is very little larger than the 1- or 5-gallon pot the plants originally came in. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Please be gentle !!
Mark,
If you don't want to pull out all of the clay soil and replace I you might try mixing in a fair bit of organic (fine shredded bark and/or manure) and gypsum (calcium sulfate). The gypsum causes the clay to agglomerate into clumps while the organic material improves the soil further. Of course you will need to allow for drainage since this new loser soil will be sitting on clay that prevents water flow. In addition if you use all bark, you may want to add fertilizer with nitrogen if you want to plant soon so the decomposing bark does not sequester all of the available nitrogen. That is why a mix of bark + manure is good. I have landscaped two houses with fine silt/clay soils and the areas where I tilled in several inches of bark/manure + gypsum have supported much better growth of plants and grass and also required less water. If you relate this to bonsai mixes we generally use a rather porous soil that often contains either agglomerated clay (akadama and kanuma) or something similar (turface or lava) plus an organic component (bark or heavy organic fertilizer). We have a clay (or plastic) layer below our bonsai soil mix, but provide large drainage holes to let the excess water out. However, perching and soggy soils can still be a problem in large shallow pots (your yard with a good layer of soil over clay). Regards - Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of EESiFlo Ultrasonic Flow Meters Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 12:54 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Please be gentle !! Thanks for the helpful info Jim. My ultimate goal is to dig these older plants up and replace them with new ones. From your comments, it appears I should dig a much wider/deeper hole and fill it with good soil. I have a major project planned for this summer. I'm planning on digging up all the flower beds around our house and replacing the solid clay with nice soil. Hopefully all the newer trees/plants will perform better. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club [mailto:] On Behalf Of Jim Lewis Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 3:31 PM To: Unfortunately, the ground is almost solid clay, hence the 6 inch growth in 6 years !! Azalea have a very tight, compact root system. In clay soils -- as we have here too, in the heart of azalealand -- the hole you dig for the freshly unpotted plant often serves as another pot, and the roots never leave it. Few people realize this when they plant azalea and do not dig the holes wide enough (and dig them much too deep and thus flood the roots), so the plants don't grow well. This is undoubtedly what has happened in your case. I'd still not fertilize them. Chances are you will find that the root system is very little larger than the 1- or 5-gallon pot the plants originally came in. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Please be gentle !!
Just an observation and tip here....
When you dig out the old beds, be sure to think about drainage for the new beds containing "good" soil. You can create little soil-filed micro ponds in the water impervious clay that will soon turn to a fetid, stinking cess pool of good soil and dead roots in very short order. Speaking from experience here. Tony Ashton Portland Oregon ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] Please be gentle !!
So! That's what the gypsum does!
Already, I'm thinking he should rent a rototiller and "soften" a whole lot more soil than we might think In my area, (Central New Jersey) we have a heavy clay soil that is called "brunswick shale". It's sufficiently heavy so that a mattock or pick is needed to break it up. So, as I see it, what we're really doing is making a bigger "pot". Bart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty & Patty Weiser" To: Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 11:16 PM Subject: [IBC] Please be gentle !! Mark, If you don't want to pull out all of the clay soil and replace I you might try mixing in a fair bit of organic (fine shredded bark and/or manure) and gypsum (calcium sulfate). The gypsum causes the clay to agglomerate into clumps while the organic material improves the soil further. Of course you will need to allow for drainage since this new loser soil will be sitting on clay that prevents water flow. In addition if you use all bark, you may want to add fertilizer with nitrogen if you want to plant soon so the decomposing bark does not sequester all of the available nitrogen. That is why a mix of bark + manure is good. I have landscaped two houses with fine silt/clay soils and the areas where I tilled in several inches of bark/manure + gypsum have supported much better growth of plants and grass and also required less water. If you relate this to bonsai mixes we generally use a rather porous soil that often contains either agglomerated clay (akadama and kanuma) or something similar (turface or lava) plus an organic component (bark or heavy organic fertilizer). We have a clay (or plastic) layer below our bonsai soil mix, but provide large drainage holes to let the excess water out. However, perching and soggy soils can still be a problem in large shallow pots (your yard with a good layer of soil over clay). Regards - Marty -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of EESiFlo Ultrasonic Flow Meters Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 12:54 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Please be gentle !! Thanks for the helpful info Jim. My ultimate goal is to dig these older plants up and replace them with new ones. From your comments, it appears I should dig a much wider/deeper hole and fill it with good soil. I have a major project planned for this summer. I'm planning on digging up all the flower beds around our house and replacing the solid clay with nice soil. Hopefully all the newer trees/plants will perform better. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club [mailto:] On Behalf Of Jim Lewis Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 3:31 PM To: Unfortunately, the ground is almost solid clay, hence the 6 inch growth in 6 years !! Azalea have a very tight, compact root system. In clay soils -- as we have here too, in the heart of azalealand -- the hole you dig for the freshly unpotted plant often serves as another pot, and the roots never leave it. Few people realize this when they plant azalea and do not dig the holes wide enough (and dig them much too deep and thus flood the roots), so the plants don't grow well. This is undoubtedly what has happened in your case. I'd still not fertilize them. Chances are you will find that the root system is very little larger than the 1- or 5-gallon pot the plants originally came in. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ********************** ******** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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