I considered telling you that indoor conditions are very bad for
spiders; there's very little food for them. I considered suggesting
that in spring, you catch each one and let it go outside.

But I decided against it.

While spiders are harmless, other arthropods may be building up
numbers on indoor bonsai this time of year. Everybody should take a
few minutes to look for scale insects. They can kill a plant very
rapidly- the symptoms are defoliation and branch die-back. Infected
plants may be sticky to the touch, because the scale insects exude
some of the sap they have ingested. The mature scale insect looks
like a wart or bump on the branch. They can be controlled to some
degree with insecticides, but their "armor" is fairly impermeable.
Horticultural oils will smother them, but coverage needs to be good,
and there's a danger of phytotoxicity. The easiest thing to do is to
dip a piece of paper towel in alcohol and rub off the scales. They
can't move- they're goners. A few weeks later, you can come in with
a pyrethrin or soap insecticide to kill the next generation of
"crawlers"; the tiny mobile juveniles.
--
Nina Shishkoff

Riverhead, NY

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I say nuke the spiders with some strong systemic
insecticide. 1000 little white spiders would give me
the shivers. I know they are good and kill other bugs
but 1000....... time to start the chemical treatments
on the littl buggers.

Ben

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But they must be there for a reason perhaps you have
some other infestation they are feeding off. Id take
out a magnifying glass and go look at the plant
carefully. They are eating something to be
multiplying like that.

Ben

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The easy way is to just use the vacuum cleaner.

Anton

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of Ben Griffin
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:07 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] scales (was:Killing little white spiders?)

I say nuke the spiders with some strong systemic
insecticide. 1000 little white spiders would give me
the shivers. I know they are good and kill other bugs
but 1000....... time to start the chemical treatments
on the littl buggers.

Ben

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But they must be there for a reason perhaps you have
some other infestation they are feeding off. Id take
out a magnifying glass and go look at the plant
carefully. They are eating something to be
multiplying like that.

No. One spider egg capsule can contain thousands of little
spiders. One spider egg capsule only takes 2 spiders to produce.

But once hatched, these thousands of little ones spread out --
looking for somewhere to settle down so they too can create an
egg capsule. They're just passing through. Eight tenths (or
more) of them will die in any event. That's Nature's overkill,
planned to ensure that _some_ member of the brood's genetic
potential survive.

Biology and Ecology 101 1/2

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Wishing
people wouldn't give advice about things that know nothing
about -- and probably guilty of it himself on occasion.

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Nina.

Isn't this just what systemic insecticides were develped for?

Is there a reason we shouldn't be using them?


Why use a poison when it is JUST as easy (or even easier) and a
LOT cheaper and safer to remove them by hand.

I swear, some folks have never met a chemical they didn't like!

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - "As crude a
weapon as the cave man's club, the chemical barrage has been
hurled at the fabric of life . . ." Rachael Louise Carson -
Silent Spring, 1962

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Nina.

Isn't this just what systemic insecticides were develped for?

Is there a reason we shouldn't be using them?

Thanks,

Bart (hovering over his bougainvillea with the Bonide in his hand)

If you have a systemic that's labeled for indoor use on scales, go
ahead and use it. Me, I always have alcohol and paper towels in the
house, so I don't bother with it.
--
Nina Shishkoff

Riverhead, NY

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Okay.

Since it's Bonide systemic Houseplant control (That's as close as I can find
to a label for indoor use) I'll give it a go.

Ever try to find little bumps (scale) on a bougie by feel?

Thanks, Nina.

Bart
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nina Shishkoff"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: [IBC] scales (was:Killing little white spiders?)


Nina.

Isn't this just what systemic insecticides were develped for?

Is there a reason we shouldn't be using them?

Thanks,

Bart (hovering over his bougainvillea with the Bonide in his hand)

If you have a systemic that's labeled for indoor use on scales, go
ahead and use it. Me, I always have alcohol and paper towels in the
house, so I don't bother with it.
--
Nina Shishkoff

Riverhead, NY


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(Jim Lewis) writes:
Why use a poison when it is JUST as easy (or even easier) and a
LOT cheaper and safer to remove them by hand.

What does the alcohol get me? does it help soften the waxy coating?
how about turpentine. (just kidding.. but it is a wax remover)
Since it's citrus trees, perhaps I should use some some "orange clean"


I swear, some folks have never met a chemical they didn't like!
mmmmm... chemical recreation.... my favorite is Dihydrogen (Mon)oxide...
gotta watch out for addiction though... withdrawal can prove fatal.
(have you see the MSDS for it.. see http://www.dhmo.org/ ,incredible
how dangerous this stuff can be!) Funny though, I've even found that
the plants get some "real happy" from it.

--
be safe.
flip
^___^ Just on the border of your waking mind, There lies... Another time
\^.^/ Where darkness & light - are one. And as you tread the halls of sanity,
==u== You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. ELO - Twilight Prologue

Might not be scale you have on you bougie. I had a
plant with scale right next to my bougie unknowingly
for about half a year. No scale ever got on the
bougie, while the other plant almost died. They
weren't touching though. Would scale be on a
bourgie's bark? I would think it near impossible to
find it there if it was since my bourgie's bark is so
rough. But it is easy enough to spot if it were to
get on the leaves.

Ben


Since it's Bonide systemic Houseplant control
(That's as close as I can find
to a label for indoor use) I'll give it a go.

Ever try to find little bumps (scale) on a bougie by
feel?

Thanks, Nina.



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I've kept indoor bonsai for about 17 years and have never seen scale
indoors. In fact I've never seen anything on them other than about 3
instances of fungus knats after bringing them inside in the fall.

The only scale I've seen on bonsai was on a cork bark chinese elm and a
plum.

Alan
=F8 critters allowed

Blue Mountain Bonsai
Ontario, Canada
Zone 6

Nina Shishkoff wrote:

I considered telling you that indoor conditions are very bad for
spiders; there's very little food for them. I considered suggesting
that in spring, you catch each one and let it go outside.


Nina,

Wood you please give some info on how to capture spiders without maining em. Also where to keep them till spring. Can I
put them in the freezer in a dormit state ? Or if not, what is a good food for them . ;-)

Bob Seele
Nicely outside of Chicago, Illinois, Zone 4/5

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Okay.

Since it's Bonide systemic Houseplant control (That's as close
as I can find
to a label for indoor use) I'll give it a go.


Is it labeled for scale?

Ever try to find little bumps (scale) on a bougie by feel?


No, but if they are there, you should be able to see them if you
make the effort. However, Bougies are one of the most pest-free
plants I know of, and I have never seen scale on them -- inside
(where mine are now -- alas) or out (where I wish mine were now).

If the pest doesn't exist, there's no point dosing it with
poison -- NONE of which were designed to be used on bonsai.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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Jim my bourganvillea has been inside for many many
years. I put it outside for some of spring and summer
fall and winter it spends indoors with me i bring it
in for show quite often. It has never had a bug
problem really in the past 4 or 5 years with it. Its
an old tree around 40 or 50 years old. I found a
white mealy bug once but that was brought in with a
new tree purchased from a local nursery. They are
very very very pest resistant even indoors.

Ben

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Ben:

I have the other symptoms. Die back and dropping leaves on a tree that was
in a florida field (in its pot) a month ago.

Yes, it could also be the chang in light, watering, etc. But, back to your
query, I agree. The bark is too rough. That was my point.

Bart
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Griffin"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 12:51 PM
Subject: [IBC] scales (was:Killing little white spiders?)


Might not be scale you have on you bougie. I had a
plant with scale right next to my bougie unknowingly
for about half a year. No scale ever got on the
bougie, while the other plant almost died. They
weren't touching though. Would scale be on a
bourgie's bark? I would think it near impossible to
find it there if it was since my bourgie's bark is so
rough. But it is easy enough to spot if it were to
get on the leaves.

Ben


Since it's Bonide systemic Houseplant control
(That's as close as I can find
to a label for indoor use) I'll give it a go.

Ever try to find little bumps (scale) on a bougie by
feel?

Thanks, Nina.



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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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