David: OK, I suspected the quote might be inexact. The problem
is that there is a big difference between recommending a tree or
plant for indoor growing and a need to be grown indoors. When we
think about it, as common sense will tell us, there is no such
thing as a truly "indoor" plant. Growing plants indoors is man's
invention. All plants have originated and grown outdoors.
The problem is that we want to grow plants which are not
indigenous to our area. That includes tropical plants, such as
your Fukian Tea tree. Survival in unnatural climates, such as
tropicals in temperate areas or any plant indoors, requires more
than basic horticultural skills as a rule.
Some people cannot grow things outdoors, because they
have no access to any outdoor area at all or else the outdoor
area they do have is not secure enough to grow. Those people
will just have to commit to learn the advanced horticultural
skills needed to make the best of their situation. Fortunately,
that isn't all that hard to do.
I'm not going to try to discuss all the horticultural
variables involved in indoor growing. So, the bottom line is
that your Fukian Tea will do better outdoors when it is
sufficiently warm in your growing area. If you are in the
northern hemisphere below the Arctic Circle, you can grow it
outdoors now, and it will be better for your tree, because it
will have better light, humidity and air circulation than you can
provide indoors. Further, the idea that your Fukian Tea should
not be exposed to drafts is exactly backwards. It needs good air
circulation to reduce risk of fungus and other pest problems.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: David Soukal

Hello, we were consulting several sources on the internet. Also
the book
Simon & Schuster's Guide to Bonsain, recommends the tree for
indoors.
They don't explicitely mention the draft, only temperature
changes.

Do you think, we should keep the tree outside?

David

(Alan Walker) wrote in message
news:000c01c47270$2894a3b0$6101a8c0@Alan...
David: To which book are you referring? Who is the author?
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hello,

thank you for your help. We will try the extra lighting. Do you
recommend some particular model or brand? So far, we are using my
wife's magnifying glass which has light bulb on it and can be bend to
almost any position

Regarding the soil. We bought it in nearby garden shop as bonsai soil.
The truth is it does not look like the rest of the soil in the pot. It
does resemble (on touch, look) the layer that was there before, that
is the clay pieces... As I wrote elsewhere in this thread, we draw our
information on the book "Simon & Schuster's Guide to Bonsai". Their
ideal mixture for *repotting* is 60% humus-rich soil, 10% peat and 30%
of coarse sand. Since we removed about an inch of the top layer, we
thought we'd replace it by the mixture above but its composition is
quite different. I'm getting a bit confused here...

Unfortunatelly, there's no bonsai club or dedicated garden shop where
we could bring the tree and discuss it. Anyway, we'll do our best to
keep the beautiful tree alive and prospering!

Thank you for your help

David (& Eva)

ps. Our university has shut our news server down, so I'm using
http://groups.google.com. It's tedious since my new messages and your
replies are not listed together. Could you, please, recommend me some
free usenet server? THANK YOU!




(Jim Lewis) wrote in message news:004e01c47268$0dd5d7e0$bb102cc7@pavilion...
Hello,

we haven't repotted the tree yet. But we do keep it indoors.
This is
our first bonsai and the book we bought said that it should be
kept
inside, since it is, supposedly, sensitive to draft. Also, we
don't
have garden, since we live in an appartment...

We could buy some extra light and / or open the windows more.

At least give it as MUCH light as you can. A fluorescent light
right overhead for a LONG day is about right, according to the
indoor growers on the list. Beyond that, I don't know diddly
about growing inside the house.



Another thing I forgot to mention is that we removed about a
half inch
of the soil from the top and replaced it with another one. The
reason
why we did that was that the soil was full of rotting leaves
and
flowers... Only later, we found out that the soil we purchased
doesn't
probably have the right composition. It was about 70% of fired
clay
and only about 25% of pine soil.

That sounds almost EXACTLY the right mix for bonsai. What kind
of soil was underneath? Bonsai soil wants to be large particles
and relatively small amount of organic material.

This is a good time to repot most tropicals (but let a fukien tea
expert advise you on whether it is right for one of these,
please. I'm NOT the one whose advice you want to take for
trpicals.).


I noticed that this layer probably
prevents the rest of the soil from breathing so it's possible
the we
kept that plant overwatered for a several hours.. Could that be
the
reason?

Nah. It would take more than "several hours" of wet feet to
cause a problem. Some trees just complain when fiddled with.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the
fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except
for the Internet, of course) is local Wal-Mart

David


(Billy M. Rhodes) wrote in message ...
In a message dated 7/25/2004 1:28:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

A fluorescent light
right overhead for a LONG day is about right, according to the
indoor growers on the list

But, the light bulb needs to be new and at six inches or less from the
plant.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

ps. I have another question, if I may. I'd like to buy a bonsai for my
wife as a birthday present. As I mentioned, there's no bonsai nursery
in the neighborhood (New York upstate). Do you have any experience
with on-line shopping? I was told, in the garden shopmy wife bought
the Fukien tree, that on-line shopping won't hurt the plant. But you
don't have much control over the plant selection of course. I would
appreciete any suggestion as to what shops are good and what aren't.
For example, I've read somewhere that BonsaiBoys.com isn't the right
place. But what is?

Thank you!


(Jim Lewis) wrote in message news:004e01c47268$0dd5d7e0$bb102cc7@pavilion...
Hello,

we haven't repotted the tree yet. But we do keep it indoors.
This is
our first bonsai and the book we bought said that it should be
kept
inside, since it is, supposedly, sensitive to draft. Also, we
don't
have garden, since we live in an appartment...

We could buy some extra light and / or open the windows more.

At least give it as MUCH light as you can. A fluorescent light
right overhead for a LONG day is about right, according to the
indoor growers on the list. Beyond that, I don't know diddly
about growing inside the house.



Another thing I forgot to mention is that we removed about a
half inch
of the soil from the top and replaced it with another one. The
reason
why we did that was that the soil was full of rotting leaves
and
flowers... Only later, we found out that the soil we purchased
doesn't
probably have the right composition. It was about 70% of fired
clay
and only about 25% of pine soil.

That sounds almost EXACTLY the right mix for bonsai. What kind
of soil was underneath? Bonsai soil wants to be large particles
and relatively small amount of organic material.

This is a good time to repot most tropicals (but let a fukien tea
expert advise you on whether it is right for one of these,
please. I'm NOT the one whose advice you want to take for
trpicals.).


I noticed that this layer probably
prevents the rest of the soil from breathing so it's possible
the we
kept that plant overwatered for a several hours.. Could that be
the
reason?

Nah. It would take more than "several hours" of wet feet to
cause a problem. Some trees just complain when fiddled with.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:56:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the
fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except
for the Internet, of course) is local Walmart

Buy a common four foot shop light, the one I have came with two chains to
allow it to be hung. I made a simple stand with crossed 1 x 2's at each end
connected by another 1 x 2. The chains were hung from where the 1 x 2's
crossed. I guess you could use PVC instead. At one time I read to use one cool
white bulb and one warm white bulb, but I would just buy two good bulbs and
replace them every six weeks or so. Although the bulbs continue to look OK to use
they quickly lose some of the light spectrum.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:56:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

So far, we are using my
wife's magnifying glass which has light bulb on it and can be bend to
almost any position

This probably generates too much heat if placed close enough to be
effective. I don't remember the exact formula but light intensity falls off by
the square of the distance? A light at 2 inches might have an intensity of x,
but at 4 inches it isn't 1/2x but 1/4x and so on.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

David Soukal wrote:

Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the
fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except
for the Internet, of course) is local Wal-Mart

Ordinary 4 foot shoplights work fine. Use cool white tubes, and hang the
fixture just a few (6 - 8) inches above the foliage. Leave it on for 16
- 18 hours per day. A timer makes this easier. Avoid incandescent (light
bulb) fixtures - they are too hot.

As Alan has already said, your tree will be better off outside as long
as it is warm enough. I don't grow Fukien Tea, but I bring my tropicals
indoors if the night time temperature is expected to drop below 50° F.

Jay
Zone 6, Michigan

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

If you live in upstate NY, then I recommend that you try to visit
Bill Valavanis' International Bonsai Arboretum in Rochester
suburb, West Henrietta. You can get directions and other
information at his web site:
http://www.internationalbonsai.com/index.html
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: David Soukal

ps. I have another question, if I may. I'd like to buy a bonsai
for my
wife as a birthday present. As I mentioned, there's no bonsai
nursery
in the neighborhood (New York upstate). Do you have any
experience
with on-line shopping? I was told, in the garden shopmy wife
bought
the Fukien tree, that on-line shopping won't hurt the plant. But
you
don't have much control over the plant selection of course. I
would
appreciete any suggestion as to what shops are good and what
aren't.
For example, I've read somewhere that BonsaiBoys.com isn't the
right
place. But what is?
Thank you!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

David: OK, I suspected the quote might be inexact. The problem
is that there is a big difference between recommending a tree or
plant for indoor growing and a need to be grown indoors. When we
think about it, as common sense will tell us, there is no such
thing as a truly "indoor" plant. Growing plants indoors is man's
invention. All plants have originated and grown outdoors.
The problem is that we want to grow plants which are not
indigenous to our area. That includes tropical plants, such as
your Fukian Tea tree. Survival in unnatural climates, such as
tropicals in temperate areas or any plant indoors, requires more
than basic horticultural skills as a rule.
Some people cannot grow things outdoors, because they
have no access to any outdoor area at all or else the outdoor
area they do have is not secure enough to grow. Those people
will just have to commit to learn the advanced horticultural
skills needed to make the best of their situation. Fortunately,
that isn't all that hard to do.
I'm not going to try to discuss all the horticultural
variables involved in indoor growing. So, the bottom line is
that your Fukian Tea will do better outdoors when it is
sufficiently warm in your growing area. If you are in the
northern hemisphere below the Arctic Circle, you can grow it
outdoors now, and it will be better for your tree, because it
will have better light, humidity and air circulation than you can
provide indoors. Further, the idea that your Fukian Tea should
not be exposed to drafts is exactly backwards. It needs good air
circulation to reduce risk of fungus and other pest problems.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: David Soukal

Hello, we were consulting several sources on the internet. Also
the book
Simon & Schuster's Guide to Bonsain, recommends the tree for
indoors.
They don't explicitely mention the draft, only temperature
changes.

Do you think, we should keep the tree outside?

David

(Alan Walker) wrote in message
news:000c01c47270$2894a3b0$6101a8c0@Alan...
David: To which book are you referring? Who is the author?
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:56:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the
fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except
for the Internet, of course) is local Walmart

Buy a common four foot shop light, the one I have came with two chains to
allow it to be hung. I made a simple stand with crossed 1 x 2's at each end
connected by another 1 x 2. The chains were hung from where the 1 x 2's
crossed. I guess you could use PVC instead. At one time I read to use one cool
white bulb and one warm white bulb, but I would just buy two good bulbs and
replace them every six weeks or so. Although the bulbs continue to look OK to use
they quickly lose some of the light spectrum.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 7/25/2004 8:56:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

So far, we are using my
wife's magnifying glass which has light bulb on it and can be bend to
almost any position

This probably generates too much heat if placed close enough to be
effective. I don't remember the exact formula but light intensity falls off by
the square of the distance? A light at 2 inches might have an intensity of x,
but at 4 inches it isn't 1/2x but 1/4x and so on.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 7/25/2004 9:26:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

I have another question, if I may. I'd like to buy a bonsai for my
wife as a birthday present.

Our suggestion, buy her a book on Bonsai instead, you can usually find
a fair selection of books at Barne's and Noble, etc.
Our buy a pot and maybe soil online, and then buy a plant at the local
nursery or Wal Mart. I have nice dwarf Bougainvillea called Pink Pixie that
I bought for $8 at Lowes.
Then put the three together using the book.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Regarding the soil. We bought it in nearby garden shop as
bonsai soil.
The truth is it does not look like the rest of the soil in the
pot. It
does resemble (on touch, look) the layer that was there before,
that
is the clay pieces... As I wrote elsewhere in this thread, we
draw our
information on the book "Simon & Schuster's Guide to Bonsai".
Their
ideal mixture for *repotting* is 60% humus-rich soil, 10% peat
and 30%
of coarse sand. Since we removed about an inch of the top
layer, we
thought we'd replace it by the mixture above but its
composition is
quite different. I'm getting a bit confused here...

Oh, aaargh! ONE of the problem with bonsai books is that they're
written everywhere and translated into everything, and that does
lead to confusion.

S&SGtB was written in Italy and later translated into English --
possibly by someone who has never grown (or maybe even seen) a
bonsai. Heaven only knows what the original text said, but the
translator gave you 70% humus -- which isn't a very good idea,
since humus is rotting leaves, worm casing, etc. -- ORGANIC --
stuff, which rots and gets mushier and mushier. The peat also is
organic and comes in MANY forms (most of them not suited for
bonsai soil in any great amount) and "coarse" sand varies
according to one's definition of "coarse" (of course). I have
the book, but haven't paid attention to the soil bit since I got
it well after I'd killed my share of trees for this or that
stupid reason.

So. Your tree should be planted in the soil you bought as
"bonsai soil," assuming it is at least 50 percent baked clay and
30 percent pine bark and 20 percent coarse sand (or, 70-30
clay-sand or clay-bark) with NO mushy humus.

I don't remember where you live, but there are bonsai clubs in
surprising locations. Goto www.absbonsai.org or to
www.bonsai-bci.com and find their pages that list clubs in N.
America. There's probably one near you.

Failing that, send Carl Rosner an e-mail (he answered one of your
earlier questions and have him walk you though the art of
transplanting a Fukien tea into good bonsai soil. Or, seeing as
how that garden shop handles something called bonsai soil maybe
that's an indication somewhere there knows something about
bonsai?????????????

Go also to www.internebonsaiclub.org, click on the "knowledge
base" and read some of the articles there -- especially the one
about soils.

As far as news readers go, I don't do newsgroups too often (I
read these messages via the linked e-mail list) but do a google
search for free and newsgroups and see what pops up.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

David Soukal wrote:

Thank you! We'll do that. Could you, please, recommend some of the
fixtures you use or know of? The best place we can shop here (except
for the Internet, of course) is local Wal-Mart

Ordinary 4 foot shoplights work fine. Use cool white tubes, and hang the
fixture just a few (6 - 8) inches above the foliage. Leave it on for 16
- 18 hours per day. A timer makes this easier. Avoid incandescent (light
bulb) fixtures - they are too hot.

As Alan has already said, your tree will be better off outside as long
as it is warm enough. I don't grow Fukien Tea, but I bring my tropicals
indoors if the night time temperature is expected to drop below 50° F.

Jay
Zone 6, Michigan

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

If you live in upstate NY, then I recommend that you try to visit
Bill Valavanis' International Bonsai Arboretum in Rochester
suburb, West Henrietta. You can get directions and other
information at his web site:
http://www.internationalbonsai.com/index.html
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: David Soukal

ps. I have another question, if I may. I'd like to buy a bonsai
for my
wife as a birthday present. As I mentioned, there's no bonsai
nursery
in the neighborhood (New York upstate). Do you have any
experience
with on-line shopping? I was told, in the garden shopmy wife
bought
the Fukien tree, that on-line shopping won't hurt the plant. But
you
don't have much control over the plant selection of course. I
would
appreciete any suggestion as to what shops are good and what
aren't.
For example, I've read somewhere that BonsaiBoys.com isn't the
right
place. But what is?
Thank you!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++