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[IBC] composted pine bark
In a message dated 8/3/2004 2:55:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes: I have fairly often read in this forum about people using composted pine bark as part of their soil mix, The product I use is sold as "Fafard Soil Conditioner" in a purple bag. Orchid bark is OK but some of it is much too large and must be ground up before use, it is also probably very expensive if you have a lot of trees. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] composted pine bark
In a message dated 8/3/2004 2:55:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes: I have fairly often read in this forum about people using composted pine bark as part of their soil mix, The product I use is sold as "Fafard Soil Conditioner" in a purple bag. Orchid bark is OK but some of it is much too large and must be ground up before use, it is also probably very expensive if you have a lot of trees. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] composted pine bark
At 05:56 AM 8/3/04 +0000, Les linfoot wrote:
I have fairly often read in this forum about people using composted pine bark as part of their soil mix, which leads me to ask how exactly does one compost pine bark? Les Perhaps it's heresy, but I don't use composted bark, but rather the freshest aromatic fir bark I can find. It seems pointless to me to use a composted bark when what we are trying to do with soiless mixes is achieve and maintain a large particle size. The major cause of soil collapse is loss of particle size due to _composting_ of the organic portion. By using composted bark, you are using a material that already has one foot in the grave. I have been using fresh bark in our nursery for over ten years, pallets of the stuff. No problems yet. Brent in Northern California Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14 http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] composted pine bark
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[IBC] composted pine bark
Iris Cohen wrote:
Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks wrote: The major cause of soil collapse is loss of particle size due to _composting_ of the organic portion. By using composted bark, you are using a material that already has one foot in the grave. I'm a little puzzled at this. Fatal soil compaction results from using organic matter that is too finely ground or too soft, like peat moss. The pine bark that is generally used in commercial bonsai soil, like Hollow Creek Farms, is only partially composted. This is to prevent the problem of bacteria in fresh bark using too much nitrogen. Also, if you repot on a regular basis, say every two or three years, the organic matter won't have turned to mush that fast. Another cause of premature soil collapse is using an inadequately fired clay component, like cat litter. That is why we keep emphasizing the need to use a high fired product like Turface. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) I guess I'm as puzzled as Iris. I have begun to pot my deciduous trees in 2/3 -1/3 organic and inorganic soil, the organic being a combination of pine or fir bark, not composted, and my own compost. The inorganic is mostly turface and some fine gravel. It would seem that with regular repotting, as Iris points out, the soil compaction will not be a problem. If a person were to wait too long, like 4-5 years or more, then I could see it being a problem. And, of course, the climate is all-important. My soil mix would not work for someone elsewhere. I've even changed my mix moving from Maine to here in southern NY state, accounting for hotter summers. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] composted pine bark
Iris Cohen wrote:
Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks wrote: The major cause of soil collapse is loss of particle size due to _composting_ of the organic portion. By using composted bark, you are using a material that already has one foot in the grave. I'm a little puzzled at this. Fatal soil compaction results from using organic matter that is too finely ground or too soft, like peat moss. The pine bark that is generally used in commercial bonsai soil, like Hollow Creek Farms, is only partially composted. This is to prevent the problem of bacteria in fresh bark using too much nitrogen. Also, if you repot on a regular basis, say every two or three years, the organic matter won't have turned to mush that fast. Another cause of premature soil collapse is using an inadequately fired clay component, like cat litter. That is why we keep emphasizing the need to use a high fired product like Turface. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) I guess I'm as puzzled as Iris. I have begun to pot my deciduous trees in 2/3 -1/3 organic and inorganic soil, the organic being a combination of pine or fir bark, not composted, and my own compost. The inorganic is mostly turface and some fine gravel. It would seem that with regular repotting, as Iris points out, the soil compaction will not be a problem. If a person were to wait too long, like 4-5 years or more, then I could see it being a problem. And, of course, the climate is all-important. My soil mix would not work for someone elsewhere. I've even changed my mix moving from Maine to here in southern NY state, accounting for hotter summers. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
[IBC] composted pine bark
Iris Cohen wrote:
Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks wrote: The major cause of soil collapse is loss of particle size due to _composting_ of the organic portion. By using composted bark, you are using a material that already has one foot in the grave. I'm a little puzzled at this. Fatal soil compaction results from using organic matter that is too finely ground or too soft, like peat moss. The pine bark that is generally used in commercial bonsai soil, like Hollow Creek Farms, is only partially composted. This is to prevent the problem of bacteria in fresh bark using too much nitrogen. Iris I have commented extensively in the past about the phenomenon of 'nitrogen lockup'. Briefly, it is of no concern to us IF, we use stable organic materials such as bark. The amount of nitrogen temporarily locked up by micoorganisms in a good soilless mix is miniscule, and completely overcome by any sensible fertilizer program. Also, if you repot on a regular basis, say every two or three years, the organic matter won't have turned to mush that fast. True, but there are those of us who don't get to every plant every two years, and there are sometimes problems with plants that are growing too slowly, or in pots that are too large for the plants to adequately root colonize the volume in a reasonable period of time. Another cause of premature soil collapse is using an inadequately fired clay component, like cat litter. That is why we keep emphasizing the need to use a high fired product like Turface. Absolutely correct. Iris, Craig added: I guess I'm as puzzled as Iris. I have begun to pot my deciduous trees in 2/3 -1/3 organic and inorganic soil, the organic being a combination of pine or fir bark, not composted, and my own compost. The inorganic is mostly turface and some fine gravel. It would seem that with regular repotting, as Iris points out, the soil compaction will not be a problem. If a person were to wait too long, like 4-5 years or more, then I could see it being a problem. Exactly, and that is what happens. In a slow growing environment, even three years can be a problem. I'm not arguing that you _can't_ use composted materials in your soil, of course you can. But you do have to be aware that you are _starting_ with materials that are already well on the road to particle degradation without any good reason that I can see. Given that, why not use fresh bark that will last longer? Brent in Northern California Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14 http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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