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Old 19-10-2004, 11:30 PM
Bill Watkins
 
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Default [IBC] Applying Lime Sulfur

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:43:42 -0400, Mark Hill
wrote:

Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !!

Any good tips ?

Thanks
Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA

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In the past some have said to let the branch dry out before applying lime
sulfur. I have found that it does work better if the branch is somewhat
dry before applying LS. It seems to absorb the LS better and tends to
look better after the LS dries. The LS will have orange look to it until
it dries.

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Old 19-10-2004, 11:30 PM
Bill Watkins
 
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Default

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:43:42 -0400, Mark Hill
wrote:

Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !!

Any good tips ?

Thanks
Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA

************************************************* *************************

******
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************* *************************

******
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


In the past some have said to let the branch dry out before applying lime
sulfur. I have found that it does work better if the branch is somewhat
dry before applying LS. It seems to absorb the LS better and tends to
look better after the LS dries. The LS will have orange look to it until
it dries.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
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http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
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Old 20-10-2004, 03:14 AM
Billy M. Rhodes
 
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Default

We use a lot of Lime sulfur on collected Buttonwoods. I have tried it both
ways, wet and dry. I think I prefer dry.
But the wood does need to dry out if a freshly cut jin is the object.
Sometimes the look we want on Buttonwoods is the stark white of the LS.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast

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Old 20-10-2004, 03:14 AM
Billy M. Rhodes
 
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Default

We use a lot of Lime sulfur on collected Buttonwoods. I have tried it both
ways, wet and dry. I think I prefer dry.
But the wood does need to dry out if a freshly cut jin is the object.
Sometimes the look we want on Buttonwoods is the stark white of the LS.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast

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Old 20-10-2004, 02:57 PM
Beckenbach, Jay
 
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Default

One good thing about lurking is you get to see all the "heavy weights"
before you make a fool of yourself. This time I think I'll add my inflation
adjusted 2 cents worth.

I have tried both ways and prefer a LIGHT misting. There are two caveats
here. First, since most of my LS work is on lantana, the bark is very
light, so the "spider-webbing" which Dale rightly noted, is not very
evident. Bougies also seem to be lighter than the buttonwoods and junipers.
Second, the lantana has a soft wood. If the misting isn't done, the LS
seems to bead up before being absorbed into the wood. This is the same
problem that occurs when your soil is extra dry. I seem to get a better
application if I mist lightly first.

Remember, LS is a FUNGICIDE. It just happens to have bleaching effects.
Apply the LS for its anti-fungal purposes. If you need to preserve the
wood, apply wood hardener after the LS has done its job. Then when new
fungus starts up, treat the area again. Apply the wood hardener again too
if you need it (on lantana, I do). If you don't like the white, either tone
it down as suggested or just wait a few weeks until it tones down naturally.
If all you want is the white, there's got to be a better way than stinky LS!

If you apply wood hardener heavily, it might give a slightly shiny surface.
I haven't noticed it on my lantana since things soak in so deep, but it does
appear very slightly on my bougies. I've never been bothered by this. If I
remember correctly, Dale says that the cure to this is a light misting with
water of the wood hardened area before it dries. Right, Dale?

Try both ways and see what works for you. A light misting worked on my
lantana better than no misting or a heavy misting.

Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a -

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hill ]
Subject: Applying Lime Sulfur

Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !!

Any good tips ?

Thanks
Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


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Old 20-10-2004, 02:57 PM
Beckenbach, Jay
 
Posts: n/a
Default

One good thing about lurking is you get to see all the "heavy weights"
before you make a fool of yourself. This time I think I'll add my inflation
adjusted 2 cents worth.

I have tried both ways and prefer a LIGHT misting. There are two caveats
here. First, since most of my LS work is on lantana, the bark is very
light, so the "spider-webbing" which Dale rightly noted, is not very
evident. Bougies also seem to be lighter than the buttonwoods and junipers.
Second, the lantana has a soft wood. If the misting isn't done, the LS
seems to bead up before being absorbed into the wood. This is the same
problem that occurs when your soil is extra dry. I seem to get a better
application if I mist lightly first.

Remember, LS is a FUNGICIDE. It just happens to have bleaching effects.
Apply the LS for its anti-fungal purposes. If you need to preserve the
wood, apply wood hardener after the LS has done its job. Then when new
fungus starts up, treat the area again. Apply the wood hardener again too
if you need it (on lantana, I do). If you don't like the white, either tone
it down as suggested or just wait a few weeks until it tones down naturally.
If all you want is the white, there's got to be a better way than stinky LS!

If you apply wood hardener heavily, it might give a slightly shiny surface.
I haven't noticed it on my lantana since things soak in so deep, but it does
appear very slightly on my bougies. I've never been bothered by this. If I
remember correctly, Dale says that the cure to this is a light misting with
water of the wood hardened area before it dries. Right, Dale?

Try both ways and see what works for you. A light misting worked on my
lantana better than no misting or a heavy misting.

Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a -

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hill ]
Subject: Applying Lime Sulfur

Hi all;

A few months ago I took a class at Jim Doyle's and started a nice JP Nana
that looks great with a few jin where the lower branches used to be.
Last weekend I dropped by Jims and bought a bottle of Lime Sulfur. When I
brought it home I realized that I have no idea how to treat jin before
applying the LS.
Should I be wire brushing them ?

One thing I've learned .... don't apply it in the house !!

Any good tips ?

Thanks
Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
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Old 20-10-2004, 05:45 PM
dalecochoy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
Subject: [IBC] Applying Lime Sulfur


On 19 Oct 2004 at 19:03, dalecochoy wrote:

I'll tell ya why we do it Jim and Kitsuni......
Cause Kimura said so.


Well, he's NOT my fav bonsaiest, so that holds little water for
me. ;-)


Ha!, Well, I think his talent IS wonderful, but , STILL disagree on the LS
thing. I GUESS I'm allowed? :)
Anyway, whether you appreciate Mr. Kimura or not his statements still become
gospel to most as they leave his lips.
This is a common thing as I see it in bonsai the world, especially in the
day of internet where many may not have the actual experience. Over the
years I've noted many "gospels" on subjects from Kanuma, to Haydite to
glazing pots underneath or inside. These master opinions often become gospel
as they bounce around.
Oh well, enough on that!
:)
Dale

P.S. Oh, BTW, Jay, it wasn't me ( and don't know who it was) who suggested
spritzing the minwax wood hardner very lightly after application started to
dry to knock off the sheen, but, I certainly agree it would probably do the
job fine..

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Old 20-10-2004, 07:05 PM
Anil Kaushik
 
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Default

Hi Everybody

Enough observations and opinions have been posted on this forum regarding LS
application. Can I dare say that I never liked the artificial appearence it
renders to the wood. Instead if systemic anti fungal paste is applied and
after drying, is brushed off with a nylon bursh, it looks better and
protects the wood from fungi. The other alternative is transparent and
colourless wood paint/warnish (diluted with thinner) that besides preserving
the wood, gives matte-finish gloss and at the same time enhances the natural
colour and grain of the wood!

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"

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Old 20-10-2004, 07:05 PM
Anil Kaushik
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Everybody

Enough observations and opinions have been posted on this forum regarding LS
application. Can I dare say that I never liked the artificial appearence it
renders to the wood. Instead if systemic anti fungal paste is applied and
after drying, is brushed off with a nylon bursh, it looks better and
protects the wood from fungi. The other alternative is transparent and
colourless wood paint/warnish (diluted with thinner) that besides preserving
the wood, gives matte-finish gloss and at the same time enhances the natural
colour and grain of the wood!

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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Old 20-10-2004, 10:11 PM
Jim Lewis
 
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Default

On 20 Oct 2004 at 22:32, Anil Kaushik wrote:

Hi Everybody

Enough observations and opinions have been posted on this forum regarding LS
application. Can I dare say that I never liked the artificial appearence it
renders to the wood.


In many instances I agree wholeheartedly. MOST trees when they
weather go silvery gray, NOT bone white as LS imparts. And even
"toned" with India ink (or better, wood stain) it tends to have
a "painted on" look for a long time after application.

Still, in the high desert of the American west you do
occasionally find a juniper or two with starkly white bleached
wood IN THE MOST EXPOSED AREAS. Elsewhere the wood grades to
silver gray, even black, and is much more beautiful than
bleached bonsai ever get

Where 99.999% of LS-treated bonsai err is that the wood is a
bleached white EVERYWHERE! That just doesn't happen.

Lime sulfuring of deadwood is another of those slavish, follow-
the-leader techniques of bonsai-dom. (IMHO)

The UGLIEST lime sulfuring I see regularly down here is on bald
cypress which NEVER have white bleached deadwood (except when
sitting on bonsai tables).

Instead if systemic anti fungal paste is applied and
after drying, is brushed off with a nylon bursh, it looks better and
protects the wood from fungi. The other alternative is transparent and
colourless wood paint/warnish (diluted with thinner) that besides preserving
the wood, gives matte-finish gloss and at the same time enhances the natural
colour and grain of the wood!


While I have a hard time believing that any antifungal agent
(including lime sulfur) applied to dead wood on a bonsai will
maintain antifungal properties for more than a few hours, or
will affect the fungi that MAY attack the wood in any event, the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the wood away
from nasty thingies.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
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http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


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Old 20-10-2004, 10:11 PM
Jim Lewis
 
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Default

On 20 Oct 2004 at 22:32, Anil Kaushik wrote:

Hi Everybody

Enough observations and opinions have been posted on this forum regarding LS
application. Can I dare say that I never liked the artificial appearence it
renders to the wood.


In many instances I agree wholeheartedly. MOST trees when they
weather go silvery gray, NOT bone white as LS imparts. And even
"toned" with India ink (or better, wood stain) it tends to have
a "painted on" look for a long time after application.

Still, in the high desert of the American west you do
occasionally find a juniper or two with starkly white bleached
wood IN THE MOST EXPOSED AREAS. Elsewhere the wood grades to
silver gray, even black, and is much more beautiful than
bleached bonsai ever get

Where 99.999% of LS-treated bonsai err is that the wood is a
bleached white EVERYWHERE! That just doesn't happen.

Lime sulfuring of deadwood is another of those slavish, follow-
the-leader techniques of bonsai-dom. (IMHO)

The UGLIEST lime sulfuring I see regularly down here is on bald
cypress which NEVER have white bleached deadwood (except when
sitting on bonsai tables).

Instead if systemic anti fungal paste is applied and
after drying, is brushed off with a nylon bursh, it looks better and
protects the wood from fungi. The other alternative is transparent and
colourless wood paint/warnish (diluted with thinner) that besides preserving
the wood, gives matte-finish gloss and at the same time enhances the natural
colour and grain of the wood!


While I have a hard time believing that any antifungal agent
(including lime sulfur) applied to dead wood on a bonsai will
maintain antifungal properties for more than a few hours, or
will affect the fungi that MAY attack the wood in any event, the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the wood away
from nasty thingies.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
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Old 20-10-2004, 10:11 PM
Jim Lewis
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 20 Oct 2004 at 22:32, Anil Kaushik wrote:

Hi Everybody

Enough observations and opinions have been posted on this forum regarding LS
application. Can I dare say that I never liked the artificial appearence it
renders to the wood.


In many instances I agree wholeheartedly. MOST trees when they
weather go silvery gray, NOT bone white as LS imparts. And even
"toned" with India ink (or better, wood stain) it tends to have
a "painted on" look for a long time after application.

Still, in the high desert of the American west you do
occasionally find a juniper or two with starkly white bleached
wood IN THE MOST EXPOSED AREAS. Elsewhere the wood grades to
silver gray, even black, and is much more beautiful than
bleached bonsai ever get

Where 99.999% of LS-treated bonsai err is that the wood is a
bleached white EVERYWHERE! That just doesn't happen.

Lime sulfuring of deadwood is another of those slavish, follow-
the-leader techniques of bonsai-dom. (IMHO)

The UGLIEST lime sulfuring I see regularly down here is on bald
cypress which NEVER have white bleached deadwood (except when
sitting on bonsai tables).

Instead if systemic anti fungal paste is applied and
after drying, is brushed off with a nylon bursh, it looks better and
protects the wood from fungi. The other alternative is transparent and
colourless wood paint/warnish (diluted with thinner) that besides preserving
the wood, gives matte-finish gloss and at the same time enhances the natural
colour and grain of the wood!


While I have a hard time believing that any antifungal agent
(including lime sulfur) applied to dead wood on a bonsai will
maintain antifungal properties for more than a few hours, or
will affect the fungi that MAY attack the wood in any event, the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the wood away
from nasty thingies.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
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Old 20-10-2004, 10:18 PM
Kitsune Miko
 
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Default

--- Jim Lewis wrote:

While I have a hard time believing that any
antifungal agent
(including lime sulfur) applied to dead wood on a
bonsai will
maintain antifungal properties for more than a few
hours, or
will affect the fungi that MAY attack the wood in
any event, the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood
hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the
wood away
from nasty thingies.

Interestingly enough big tree people (arborists) will
not seal dead wood because of locking in nasty
thingies.

Kitsune Miko


=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
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Old 20-10-2004, 10:18 PM
Kitsune Miko
 
Posts: n/a
Default

--- Jim Lewis wrote:

While I have a hard time believing that any
antifungal agent
(including lime sulfur) applied to dead wood on a
bonsai will
maintain antifungal properties for more than a few
hours, or
will affect the fungi that MAY attack the wood in
any event, the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood
hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the
wood away
from nasty thingies.

Interestingly enough big tree people (arborists) will
not seal dead wood because of locking in nasty
thingies.

Kitsune Miko


=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
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Old 20-10-2004, 10:18 PM
Kitsune Miko
 
Posts: n/a
Default

--- Jim Lewis wrote:

While I have a hard time believing that any
antifungal agent
(including lime sulfur) applied to dead wood on a
bonsai will
maintain antifungal properties for more than a few
hours, or
will affect the fungi that MAY attack the wood in
any event, the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood
hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the
wood away
from nasty thingies.

Interestingly enough big tree people (arborists) will
not seal dead wood because of locking in nasty
thingies.

Kitsune Miko


=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


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