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Old 08-01-2005, 10:06 PM
Kitsune Miko
 
Posts: n/a
Default [IBC] airlayering questions

I have heard that you can/cannot put two airlayers on
the same branch. Anyone tried this? I have lots of
overgrown stuff that is overgrown because I think I
should airlayer. I suppose I could do long airlayers,
then airlyer the airlayer after the first pass is
rooted and stable.

Kitsune Miko

=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #2   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 01:13 AM
Jim Lewis
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 8 Jan 2005 at 13:06, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have heard that you can/cannot put two airlayers on
the same branch. Anyone tried this? I have lots of
overgrown stuff that is overgrown because I think I
should airlayer. I suppose I could do long airlayers,
then airlyer the airlayer after the first pass is
rooted and stable.


You can do several on one plant, but not on the same branch.
The nutrients/water/whatever the roots/leaves need will get cut
off from one or the other one of the layers.

Jim Lewis - - This economy is a wholly
owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #3   Report Post  
Old 10-01-2005, 07:46 PM
Tex John
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II page 3 shows an air layering technique I'd
never seen before where he air layers the middle section of a branch and
gets roots on both sides. He doesn't say if the end of the branch will die
off or not. He does not appear to cut the bark 100% all the way round
either, though.

John


"Jim Lewis" wrote in message
news:41E03099.27470.D6D17@localhost...
On 8 Jan 2005 at 13:06, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have heard that you can/cannot put two airlayers on
the same branch. Anyone tried this? I have lots of
overgrown stuff that is overgrown because I think I
should airlayer. I suppose I could do long airlayers,
then airlyer the airlayer after the first pass is
rooted and stable.


You can do several on one plant, but not on the same branch.
The nutrients/water/whatever the roots/leaves need will get cut
off from one or the other one of the layers.

Jim Lewis - - This economy is a wholly
owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



  #4   Report Post  
Old 10-01-2005, 07:46 PM
Tex John
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II page 3 shows an air layering technique I'd
never seen before where he air layers the middle section of a branch and
gets roots on both sides. He doesn't say if the end of the branch will die
off or not. He does not appear to cut the bark 100% all the way round
either, though.

John


"Jim Lewis" wrote in message
news:41E03099.27470.D6D17@localhost...
On 8 Jan 2005 at 13:06, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have heard that you can/cannot put two airlayers on
the same branch. Anyone tried this? I have lots of
overgrown stuff that is overgrown because I think I
should airlayer. I suppose I could do long airlayers,
then airlyer the airlayer after the first pass is
rooted and stable.


You can do several on one plant, but not on the same branch.
The nutrients/water/whatever the roots/leaves need will get cut
off from one or the other one of the layers.

Jim Lewis - - This economy is a wholly
owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



  #5   Report Post  
Old 10-01-2005, 08:16 PM
Kitsune Miko
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Interesting. I wonder if he also got roots on the
part furthest away from the tree as well.

Kits
--- Tex John wrote:

John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II page 3 shows an air
layering technique I'd
never seen before where he air layers the middle
section of a branch and
gets roots on both sides. He doesn't say if the end
of the branch will die
off or not. He does not appear to cut the bark 100%
all the way round
either, though.

John


"Jim Lewis" wrote in message
news:41E03099.27470.D6D17@localhost...
On 8 Jan 2005 at 13:06, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have heard that you can/cannot put two

airlayers on
the same branch. Anyone tried this? I have

lots of
overgrown stuff that is overgrown because I

think I
should airlayer. I suppose I could do long

airlayers,
then airlyer the airlayer after the first pass

is
rooted and stable.


You can do several on one plant, but not on the

same branch.
The nutrients/water/whatever the roots/leaves need

will get cut
off from one or the other one of the layers.

Jim Lewis - - This economy is

a wholly
owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord

Nelson



************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon

Manakitivipart++++


************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail

+++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon
Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


  #6   Report Post  
Old 11-01-2005, 04:36 PM
Tex John
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yes...don't have a scanner or I'd show you...maybe someone else does and can
post it in the forum?

Afterwards he appears to peel the bark off the bottom of the air-layered
horizontal limb to expose even more cambium and get even more roots round
the edge.

John


"Kitsune Miko" wrote in message
o.com...
Interesting. I wonder if he also got roots on the
part furthest away from the tree as well.

Kits
--- Tex John wrote:

John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II page 3 shows an air
layering technique I'd
never seen before where he air layers the middle
section of a branch and
gets roots on both sides. He doesn't say if the end
of the branch will die
off or not. He does not appear to cut the bark 100%
all the way round
either, though.

John


"Jim Lewis" wrote in message
news:41E03099.27470.D6D17@localhost...
On 8 Jan 2005 at 13:06, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have heard that you can/cannot put two

airlayers on
the same branch. Anyone tried this? I have

lots of
overgrown stuff that is overgrown because I

think I
should airlayer. I suppose I could do long

airlayers,
then airlyer the airlayer after the first pass

is
rooted and stable.


You can do several on one plant, but not on the

same branch.
The nutrients/water/whatever the roots/leaves need

will get cut
off from one or the other one of the layers.

Jim Lewis - - This economy is

a wholly
owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord

Nelson




************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon

Manakitivipart++++



************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail

+++++



************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon
Manakitivipart++++


************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



  #7   Report Post  
Old 11-01-2005, 05:50 PM
Kitsune Miko
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have the book in ASCi it looks like this"

|airlayer
|
______ ______ _______ branch tip

| |

cut cut

There is a bottom cut, but not all the way through at
the two cut sites. They are stuffed with moss,
wrapped, and cut off when roots form on either side of
the above indicated airlayer. My question is whether
roots also from on the piece more towards the branch
tip.

This seesm to be a variation on the
put-a-pebble-in-a-slit-and-burry-in-the-ground
technique. but ont hat one the roots form at the end
of the growing tip.

Kits


--- Tex John wrote:

Yes...don't have a scanner or I'd show you...maybe
someone else does and can
post it in the forum?

Afterwards he appears to peel the bark off the
bottom of the air-layered
horizontal limb to expose even more cambium and get
even more roots round
the edge.

John


"Kitsune Miko" wrote in message

o.com...
Interesting. I wonder if he also got roots on the
part furthest away from the tree as well.

Kits
--- Tex John wrote:

John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II page 3 shows an

air
layering technique I'd
never seen before where he air layers the middle
section of a branch and
gets roots on both sides. He doesn't say if the

end
of the branch will die
off or not. He does not appear to cut the bark

100%
all the way round
either, though.

John


"Jim Lewis" wrote in

message
news:41E03099.27470.D6D17@localhost...
On 8 Jan 2005 at 13:06, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have heard that you can/cannot put two
airlayers on
the same branch. Anyone tried this? I have
lots of
overgrown stuff that is overgrown because I
think I
should airlayer. I suppose I could do long
airlayers,
then airlyer the airlayer after the first

pass
is
rooted and stable.


You can do several on one plant, but not on

the
same branch.
The nutrients/water/whatever the roots/leaves

need
will get cut
off from one or the other one of the layers.

Jim Lewis - - This

economy is
a wholly
owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord
Nelson





************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by

Boon
Manakitivipart++++




************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++




************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon
Manakitivipart++++



************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott



************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon

Manakitivipart++++


************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail

+++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon
Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #8   Report Post  
Old 11-01-2005, 09:33 PM
Jim Lewis
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 11 Jan 2005 at 8:50, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have the book in ASCi it looks like this"

|airlayer
|
______ ______ _______ branch tip

| |

cut cut

There is a bottom cut, but not all the way through at
the two cut sites. They are stuffed with moss,
wrapped, and cut off when roots form on either side of
the above indicated airlayer. My question is whether
roots also from on the piece more towards the branch
tip.

This seesm to be a variation on the
put-a-pebble-in-a-slit-and-burry-in-the-ground
technique. but ont hat one the roots form at the end
of the growing tip.

Kits


Based on the biology of trees (plants!) and how nutrients,
water, etc. are moved around, I cannot imagine how you could get
roots in both places; you might be in danger of getting roots at
neither place.

_I_ would not risk it in a plant that I really wanted to get at
least one layer off of. Do the bottom layer now, then the
other layer in a few years when the new roots are fully
supporting the new plant.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #9   Report Post  
Old 12-01-2005, 04:19 AM
Tex John
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jim,

This is far beyond my experience, but Naka's hand drawing does show roots on
both the trunk-side branch cut and and the branch-tip branch cut.

Definately odd looking. Maybe someone can upload a scan to the forum?

John

"Jim Lewis" wrote in message
news:41E3F176.29648.14A39DB@localhost...
On 11 Jan 2005 at 8:50, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have the book in ASCi it looks like this"

|airlayer
|
______ ______ _______ branch tip

| |

cut cut

There is a bottom cut, but not all the way through at
the two cut sites. They are stuffed with moss,
wrapped, and cut off when roots form on either side of
the above indicated airlayer. My question is whether
roots also from on the piece more towards the branch
tip.

This seesm to be a variation on the
put-a-pebble-in-a-slit-and-burry-in-the-ground
technique. but ont hat one the roots form at the end
of the growing tip.

Kits


Based on the biology of trees (plants!) and how nutrients,
water, etc. are moved around, I cannot imagine how you could get
roots in both places; you might be in danger of getting roots at
neither place.

_I_ would not risk it in a plant that I really wanted to get at
least one layer off of. Do the bottom layer now, then the
other layer in a few years when the new roots are fully
supporting the new plant.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



  #10   Report Post  
Old 12-01-2005, 05:44 AM
Alan Walker
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well, I finally looked at the illustration in question.
That's a good idea to do before assessing it, because this is not
about taking two airlayers off the same branch. It is about
taking one airlayer on an upward growing branch off a lateral
branch. The purpose is to create good rootage and a strong base
for the new tree.
When you remove the airlayer, you eliminate the distal
tip of the branch and keep the middle part which has rooted.
John Naka was very competent and knew what he was talking
about. None of the things in his books were techniques he had not
successfully performed himself.
By the way, DO NOT scan the illustrations and post them.
This book is definitely copyrighted and this should be respected.
You will probably be banned from the forum for a while if you do
post it.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Tex John

Jim,
This is far beyond my experience, but Naka's hand drawing does
show roots on both the trunk-side branch cut and and the
branch-tip branch cut.
Definitely odd looking. Maybe someone can upload a scan to the
forum?
John

On 11 Jan 2005 at 8:50, Kitsune Miko wrote:
I have the book in ASCi it looks like this"
|airlayer
|
______ ______ _______ branch tip

| |

cut cut

There is a bottom cut, but not all the way through at the two cut
sites. They are stuffed with moss, wrapped, and cut off when
roots form on either side of the above indicated airlayer. My
question is whether roots also from on the piece more towards the
branch tip.

This seems to be a variation on the
put-a-pebble-in-a-slit-and-burry-in-the-ground technique. but ont
hat one the roots form at the end of the growing tip.
Kits

Based on the biology of trees (plants!) and how nutrients, water,
etc. are moved around, I cannot imagine how you could get roots
in both places; you might be in danger of getting roots at
neither place.

_I_ would not risk it in a plant that I really wanted to get at
least one layer off of. Do the bottom layer now, then the other
layer in a few years when the new roots are fully supporting the
new plant.
Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



  #11   Report Post  
Old 12-01-2005, 07:25 AM
Kitsune Miko
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Let's try this again:

\/
__|___
------/_____\----------Branch tip
^ ^
Interesting water sprout on branch. Angle cuts as
shown, not all the way through the branch. The life
line continues unbroken across the top. "^"= roots
Naka shows the actual tree planted and the rootage in
a photo.

Kits



--- Tex John wrote:

Jim,

This is far beyond my experience, but Naka's hand
drawing does show roots on
both the trunk-side branch cut and and the
branch-tip branch cut.

Definately odd looking. Maybe someone can upload a
scan to the forum?

John

"Jim Lewis" wrote in message
news:41E3F176.29648.14A39DB@localhost...
On 11 Jan 2005 at 8:50, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have the book in ASCi it looks like this"

|airlayer
|
______ ______ _______ branch tip

| |

cut cut

There is a bottom cut, but not all the way

through at
the two cut sites. They are stuffed with moss,
wrapped, and cut off when roots form on either

side of
the above indicated airlayer. My question is

whether
roots also from on the piece more towards the

branch
tip.

This seesm to be a variation on the
put-a-pebble-in-a-slit-and-burry-in-the-ground
technique. but ont hat one the roots form at the

end
of the growing tip.

Kits


Based on the biology of trees (plants!) and how

nutrients,
water, etc. are moved around, I cannot imagine how

you could get
roots in both places; you might be in danger of

getting roots at
neither place.

_I_ would not risk it in a plant that I really

wanted to get at
least one layer off of. Do the bottom layer now,

then the
other layer in a few years when the new roots are

fully
supporting the new plant.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL

- Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph

Waldo Emerson



************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon

Manakitivipart++++


************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail

+++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon
Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #12   Report Post  
Old 12-01-2005, 02:32 PM
Jim Lewis
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Someone would need to e-mail Nic about copyright questions,
though since it would be for an educational purpose it probably
would be OK. I don't have Naka II, so haven't seen the picture.

I have, however, _always_ said that bonsai books are the
absolute worst place to get reliable botanical information from.

Suggest you call your local agricultural extension office and
ask them; they at least should put you in touch with someone who
layers often -- perhaps a camellia grower.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - When we see
land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it
with love and respect - Aldo Leopold - A Sand County Almanac


On 12 Jan 2005 at 3:19, Tex John wrote:

Jim,

This is far beyond my experience, but Naka's hand drawing does show roots on
both the trunk-side branch cut and and the branch-tip branch cut.

Definately odd looking. Maybe someone can upload a scan to the forum?

John

"Jim Lewis" wrote in message
news:41E3F176.29648.14A39DB@localhost...
On 11 Jan 2005 at 8:50, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have the book in ASCi it looks like this"

|airlayer
|
______ ______ _______ branch tip

| |

cut cut

There is a bottom cut, but not all the way through at
the two cut sites. They are stuffed with moss,
wrapped, and cut off when roots form on either side of
the above indicated airlayer. My question is whether
roots also from on the piece more towards the branch
tip.

This seesm to be a variation on the
put-a-pebble-in-a-slit-and-burry-in-the-ground
technique. but ont hat one the roots form at the end
of the growing tip.

Kits


Based on the biology of trees (plants!) and how nutrients,
water, etc. are moved around, I cannot imagine how you could get
roots in both places; you might be in danger of getting roots at
neither place.

_I_ would not risk it in a plant that I really wanted to get at
least one layer off of. Do the bottom layer now, then the
other layer in a few years when the new roots are fully
supporting the new plant.

Jim Lewis -
- Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
  #13   Report Post  
Old 12-01-2005, 02:32 PM
Jim Lewis
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Someone would need to e-mail Nic about copyright questions,
though since it would be for an educational purpose it probably
would be OK. I don't have Naka II, so haven't seen the picture.

I have, however, _always_ said that bonsai books are the
absolute worst place to get reliable botanical information from.

Suggest you call your local agricultural extension office and
ask them; they at least should put you in touch with someone who
layers often -- perhaps a camellia grower.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - When we see
land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it
with love and respect - Aldo Leopold - A Sand County Almanac


On 12 Jan 2005 at 3:19, Tex John wrote:

Jim,

This is far beyond my experience, but Naka's hand drawing does show roots on
both the trunk-side branch cut and and the branch-tip branch cut.

Definately odd looking. Maybe someone can upload a scan to the forum?

John

"Jim Lewis" wrote in message
news:41E3F176.29648.14A39DB@localhost...
On 11 Jan 2005 at 8:50, Kitsune Miko wrote:

I have the book in ASCi it looks like this"

|airlayer
|
______ ______ _______ branch tip

| |

cut cut

There is a bottom cut, but not all the way through at
the two cut sites. They are stuffed with moss,
wrapped, and cut off when roots form on either side of
the above indicated airlayer. My question is whether
roots also from on the piece more towards the branch
tip.

This seesm to be a variation on the
put-a-pebble-in-a-slit-and-burry-in-the-ground
technique. but ont hat one the roots form at the end
of the growing tip.

Kits


Based on the biology of trees (plants!) and how nutrients,
water, etc. are moved around, I cannot imagine how you could get
roots in both places; you might be in danger of getting roots at
neither place.

_I_ would not risk it in a plant that I really wanted to get at
least one layer off of. Do the bottom layer now, then the
other layer in a few years when the new roots are fully
supporting the new plant.

Jim Lewis -
- Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:21 PM
Nina
 
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This whole thread confused me, but kitsune's modified ascii graphic has
finally clued me in. From what I know about root formation (not that
much, but I did have a plant physiology course once.... decades ago),
there is no reason you can't get two areas of root formation on the
same branch. It happens all the time on shrubs that "scramble", that
is, that root on low branches that touch the ground. Roots that emerge
from stems are called "adventitious roots" and form from the inner bark
layer. The formation of these roots are influenced by hormones (auxin
and ethylene) and energy (sugar). Ethylene is produced by (among other
things) wounding, so the combination of making a wound and keeping it
smothered in sphagnum will allow ethylene to accumulate. Sugar and
auxin will come down from the branch tip. In a normal single girdle
air-layer, sugar and auxin will accumulate in the "upper lip" of the
girdle (unable to go any farther because the phloem has been severed),
and roots formation will be in that upper lip. In a double girdle such
as Kitsune has diagrammed, the lateral branch between the two girdle
sites has been transformed into the new "apical tip" for that segment,
and sugar and auxin should travel pretty uniformly to both girdle
sites. Hope that makes sense.....

  #15   Report Post  
Old 12-01-2005, 03:21 PM
Nina
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This whole thread confused me, but kitsune's modified ascii graphic has
finally clued me in. From what I know about root formation (not that
much, but I did have a plant physiology course once.... decades ago),
there is no reason you can't get two areas of root formation on the
same branch. It happens all the time on shrubs that "scramble", that
is, that root on low branches that touch the ground. Roots that emerge
from stems are called "adventitious roots" and form from the inner bark
layer. The formation of these roots are influenced by hormones (auxin
and ethylene) and energy (sugar). Ethylene is produced by (among other
things) wounding, so the combination of making a wound and keeping it
smothered in sphagnum will allow ethylene to accumulate. Sugar and
auxin will come down from the branch tip. In a normal single girdle
air-layer, sugar and auxin will accumulate in the "upper lip" of the
girdle (unable to go any farther because the phloem has been severed),
and roots formation will be in that upper lip. In a double girdle such
as Kitsune has diagrammed, the lateral branch between the two girdle
sites has been transformed into the new "apical tip" for that segment,
and sugar and auxin should travel pretty uniformly to both girdle
sites. Hope that makes sense.....

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