[IBC] once more sealants
 

I'm really puzzled about using sealants to cover cuts. The information I
managed to gather seems to be pretty inconsistent; basically, there are
people who

1) say that basically no sealant is needed as trees heal best without any
interference
2) say that (almost) each large cut should be sealed with the original
Japanese cut paste
3) give a number of recipes for a home made cut paste (Elmer's glue, modeling
clay, plumber's putty, bee wax, gardener's wax, etc...) which works the same
way as the Japanese original

I'm a beginner to bonsai and I have to decide what to use (if anything). Is
there any general study/resource about it or is it a trial-error for each
particular location? I guess the healing process (and hence the sealant
application) depends on the species and climate?

Thank you,

Rastislav Kralovic
Bratislava,
Slovakia

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Rastislav,

You missed one mo

4) Brown or gray paint to match the color of your bark.

Though that may fit in as a sub-category under #1.

John
in Houston



"Rastislav Kralovic" wrote in message
...
I'm really puzzled about using sealants to cover cuts. The information I
managed to gather seems to be pretty inconsistent; basically, there are
people who

1) say that basically no sealant is needed as trees heal best without any
interference
2) say that (almost) each large cut should be sealed with the original
Japanese cut paste
3) give a number of recipes for a home made cut paste (Elmer's glue,
modeling
clay, plumber's putty, bee wax, gardener's wax, etc...) which works the
same
way as the Japanese original

I'm a beginner to bonsai and I have to decide what to use (if anything).
Is
there any general study/resource about it or is it a trial-error for each
particular location? I guess the healing process (and hence the sealant
application) depends on the species and climate?

Thank you,

Rastislav Kralovic
Bratislava,
Slovakia


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Gregory Brenden++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Good question with many possible answers. Using a patch over cuts is
largely aesthetic. It used to be thought that patches keep diseases out and
sap in. Actually, unless the patch is perfectly sealed and is waterproof,
it can encourage bateriological infestation by providing a dark cavity in
which a disease can incubate. For this reason, most tree professionals
forego the use of any covering over the wound.
Yet, many bonsai growers still use cut paste over large cuts. I believe
they do it because a small tree does look better with it.
My personal preference is an acrylic filler, mainly because it is waterproof
and can be purchased in many colors to match the bark. Besides, the cost is
a couple of bucks vs. $10 for a small jar of imported cut paste.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rastislav Kralovic"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: [IBC] once more sealants


I'm really puzzled about using sealants to cover cuts. The information I
managed to gather seems to be pretty inconsistent; basically, there are
people who

1) say that basically no sealant is needed as trees heal best without any
interference
2) say that (almost) each large cut should be sealed with the original
Japanese cut paste
3) give a number of recipes for a home made cut paste (Elmer's glue,
modeling
clay, plumber's putty, bee wax, gardener's wax, etc...) which works the
same
way as the Japanese original

I'm a beginner to bonsai and I have to decide what to use (if anything).
Is
there any general study/resource about it or is it a trial-error for each
particular location? I guess the healing process (and hence the sealant
application) depends on the species and climate?

Thank you,

Rastislav Kralovic
Bratislava,
Slovakia

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Gregory Brenden++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Gregory Brenden++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In Japan they have plaster sealant made like square tapes .. you cut
the tape the size/shape you need , you slightly warm on a flame and
apply on the wound ..
it is a plaster one can buy in the supermarket and is valid for trees
and humans .. color :light browm

Marty Haber wrote:

Good question with many possible answers. Using a patch over cuts is
largely aesthetic. It used to be thought that patches keep diseases out
and sap in. Actually, unless the patch is perfectly sealed and is
waterproof, it can encourage bateriological infestation by providing a
dark cavity in which a disease can incubate. For this reason, most tree
professionals forego the use of any covering over the wound.
Yet, many bonsai growers still use cut paste over large cuts. I believe
they do it because a small tree does look better with it.
My personal preference is an acrylic filler, mainly because it is
waterproof and can be purchased in many colors to match the bark.
Besides, the cost is a couple of bucks vs. $10 for a small jar of
imported cut paste.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rastislav Kralovic"

To:
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: [IBC] once more sealants


I'm really puzzled about using sealants to cover cuts. The information I
managed to gather seems to be pretty inconsistent; basically, there are
people who

1) say that basically no sealant is needed as trees heal best without any
interference
2) say that (almost) each large cut should be sealed with the original
Japanese cut paste
3) give a number of recipes for a home made cut paste (Elmer's glue,
modeling
clay, plumber's putty, bee wax, gardener's wax, etc...) which works
the same
way as the Japanese original

I'm a beginner to bonsai and I have to decide what to use (if
anything). Is
there any general study/resource about it or is it a trial-error for each
particular location? I guess the healing process (and hence the sealant
application) depends on the species and climate?

Thank you,

Rastislav Kralovic
Bratislava,
Slovakia

************************************************** ******************************

++++Sponsored, in part, by Gregory Brenden++++
************************************************** ******************************


-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************

++++Sponsored, in part, by Gregory Brenden++++
************************************************** ******************************


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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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On 3 Mar 2005 at 11:28, Rastislav Kralovic wrote:

I'm really puzzled about using sealants to cover cuts. The information I
managed to gather seems to be pretty inconsistent; basically, there are
people who

1) say that basically no sealant is needed as trees heal best without any
interference
2) say that (almost) each large cut should be sealed with the original
Japanese cut paste
3) give a number of recipes for a home made cut paste (Elmer's glue, modeling
clay, plumber's putty, bee wax, gardener's wax, etc...) which works the same
way as the Japanese original

I'm a beginner to bonsai and I have to decide what to use (if anything). Is
there any general study/resource about it or is it a trial-error for each
particular location? I guess the healing process (and hence the sealant
application) depends on the species and climate?


Like so many other things in bonsai, "it depends . . ."

As Marty said, professional tree surgeons/arborists are moving
away from the use of wound sealants on full-sized trees because
of the possibility (some say likelihood) of trapping MOISTURE
(not disease organisms) under the paste, then or sometime in the
future, and promoting rot.

I almost never use "cut paste" on my bonsai.

But . . . Some species' bark tends to dry and peel away from
wound sites, some of them badly, others less badly. For trees
with thin bark (maples, azalea, etc) I often use a bees wax-base
paste that I got from an arborist friend who also does bonsai
and smear it thinly around the edges of the cut, almost as a
"glue" to hold the bark in place.

Otherwise, I usually make a mud mix (often by spitting in my
palm and mixing some common dirt in), and rub that over the cut
site to help staunch any bleeding and to darken the wood so the
cut doesn't stand out so. And before someone asks, NO that will
not introduce some dread disease.

If the spit bothers you just rub the wound with dirt. :-)

Water soluable white glue also works well and has the advantage
that it lasts just long enough for the bark around the wound to
heal before it is washed away. My bee's wax paste has to be
cleaned off with alcohol or witch hazel after a month or so.

Whatever you decide to do, there is absolutely NO need to fork
over money for a can, tube or bottle with Japanese lettering on
it. Trees with huge gray lumps of (too) expensive Japanese cut
paste on them just look ugly anyway.

IMHO this is another thing we western bonsaiests do "because
THEY do it that way." It's heresy, I know, but there may be
better ways to do some things in bonsai than to follow
everything the Japanese do like robots. Poo balls are another.

Jim Lewis - - Hit THINK before you hit SEND

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Gregory Brenden++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 3 Mar 2005 at 11:28, Rastislav Kralovic wrote:

I'm really puzzled about using sealants to cover cuts. The information I
managed to gather seems to be pretty inconsistent; basically, there are
people who

1) say that basically no sealant is needed as trees heal best without any
interference
2) say that (almost) each large cut should be sealed with the original
Japanese cut paste
3) give a number of recipes for a home made cut paste (Elmer's glue, modeling
clay, plumber's putty, bee wax, gardener's wax, etc...) which works the same
way as the Japanese original

I'm a beginner to bonsai and I have to decide what to use (if anything). Is
there any general study/resource about it or is it a trial-error for each
particular location? I guess the healing process (and hence the sealant
application) depends on the species and climate?


Like so many other things in bonsai, "it depends . . ."

As Marty said, professional tree surgeons/arborists are moving
away from the use of wound sealants on full-sized trees because
of the possibility (some say likelihood) of trapping MOISTURE
(not disease organisms) under the paste, then or sometime in the
future, and promoting rot.

I almost never use "cut paste" on my bonsai.

But . . . Some species' bark tends to dry and peel away from
wound sites, some of them badly, others less badly. For trees
with thin bark (maples, azalea, etc) I often use a bees wax-base
paste that I got from an arborist friend who also does bonsai
and smear it thinly around the edges of the cut, almost as a
"glue" to hold the bark in place.

Otherwise, I usually make a mud mix (often by spitting in my
palm and mixing some common dirt in), and rub that over the cut
site to help staunch any bleeding and to darken the wood so the
cut doesn't stand out so. And before someone asks, NO that will
not introduce some dread disease.

If the spit bothers you just rub the wound with dirt. :-)

Water soluable white glue also works well and has the advantage
that it lasts just long enough for the bark around the wound to
heal before it is washed away. My bee's wax paste has to be
cleaned off with alcohol or witch hazel after a month or so.

Whatever you decide to do, there is absolutely NO need to fork
over money for a can, tube or bottle with Japanese lettering on
it. Trees with huge gray lumps of (too) expensive Japanese cut
paste on them just look ugly anyway.

IMHO this is another thing we western bonsaiests do "because
THEY do it that way." It's heresy, I know, but there may be
better ways to do some things in bonsai than to follow
everything the Japanese do like robots. Poo balls are another.

Jim Lewis - - Hit THINK before you hit SEND

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Gregory Brenden++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

"Rastislav Kralovic" wrote in message
...
I'm really puzzled about using sealants to cover cuts. The information I
managed to gather seems to be pretty inconsistent; basically, there are
people who
SNIP
I'm a beginner to bonsai and I have to decide what to use (if anything).
Is
there any general study/resource about it or is it a trial-error for each
particular location? I guess the healing process (and hence the sealant
application) depends on the species and climate?

Thank you,

Rastislav Kralovic
Bratislava,
Slovakia

As mentioned in replies to your original message. Very few tree surgeons are
now using sealants and pastes due to fear of encouraging disease.
I personally do not use anything, and have never had a problem. Be sure to
make any cuts not hold water from rain, dew, your cutting tool whatever it
may be is clean and sharp and my guess is you will never have a problem.
There is a bonsai for sale here at a local nursery. A very nice looking
olive. I have looked at it for ideas. Once when looking at it I was asked if
I would like the name of the owner to negotiate a price, as the bonsai at
this nursery are suplied by a local bonsaist (sp?).
"Nah thanks, just looking" I replied.
"Oh, ok, I thought you may have been looking to buy it, a lot of people are
put off by the sealant in the top and ask me what it is, and say that it
ruins the look of it" said the woman.
This bonsai is beautiful, however ruined by a 45 degree angle cut at the top
of the trunk which is covered by a grey sealant. Foliage does cover the cut,
but not enough, and is still visible. I think a well placed cut, with some
careful dremel carving would have looked much better.

Good luck
--
Mid North Coast
New South Wales
Australia

HI Andrew
teh sealant does not stay on teh tree forever it avoid eggs molds
and water water wets cambium wood and darken and rot it this is why
sealant is placed to keep the wound insulated until theeh new bark is
formed and the wound disappear ..
if we cut our skin we know whyt can attack us teh same for plants and
if plants has a bark a reason must be
In a such a case like your the branch above the cut has to be let
grow freely to help cicatrization and to equalize as growing the size
of the under stock in time teh difference and bad wund will become
unnoticeable
this is the ABC of bonsai


Andrew G wrote:

"Rastislav Kralovic" wrote in message
...

I'm really puzzled about using sealants to cover cuts. The information I
managed to gather seems to be pretty inconsistent; basically, there are
people who

SNIP

I'm a beginner to bonsai and I have to decide what to use (if anything).

Is

there any general study/resource about it or is it a trial-error for each
particular location? I guess the healing process (and hence the sealant
application) depends on the species and climate?

Thank you,

Rastislav Kralovic
Bratislava,
Slovakia


As mentioned in replies to your original message. Very few tree surgeons are
now using sealants and pastes due to fear of encouraging disease.
I personally do not use anything, and have never had a problem. Be sure to
make any cuts not hold water from rain, dew, your cutting tool whatever it
may be is clean and sharp and my guess is you will never have a problem.
There is a bonsai for sale here at a local nursery. A very nice looking
olive. I have looked at it for ideas. Once when looking at it I was asked if
I would like the name of the owner to negotiate a price, as the bonsai at
this nursery are suplied by a local bonsaist (sp?).
"Nah thanks, just looking" I replied.
"Oh, ok, I thought you may have been looking to buy it, a lot of people are
put off by the sealant in the top and ask me what it is, and say that it
ruins the look of it" said the woman.
This bonsai is beautiful, however ruined by a 45 degree angle cut at the top
of the trunk which is covered by a grey sealant. Foliage does cover the cut,
but not enough, and is still visible. I think a well placed cut, with some
careful dremel carving would have looked much better.

Good luck
--
Mid North Coast
New South Wales
Australia



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