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[IBC] Soil Language Problem
Be careful of bonsai books and articles written in or translated to British
English. Most Americans (I hope) have figured out by now that what the British mean by compost (potting soil) is not what we mean by compost (rotted vegetation used to imorove garden soil). But I was puzzled for a long time by British soil recipes which include "loam." In the US, loam is rich heavy garden soil. I can't imagine using loam in a bonsai potting mix. I finally figured it out when I ran across a reference to Akadama as "loam." They mean clay, especially fired or processed clay. So if you see a bonsai soil recipe which calls for 1/3 loam, read Turface, Terragreen, or something similar. Iris ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
In a message dated 3/27/05 12:02:09 AM, writes:
I finally figured it out when I ran across a reference to Akadama as "loam." They mean clay, especially fired or processed clay. Kevin Bailey informs me that I am mistaken, & the dictionary definition of loam is the same in UK as it is here. That makes some of the bonsai books even more puzzling. Is the British climate such that loam is really an appropriate bonsai soil component? Is British loam somehow different from American loam? Iris Gardening Rule: When weeding, the best way to make sure you are removing a weed and not a valuable plant is to pull on it. If it comes out of the ground easily, it is a valuable plant. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
In a message dated 3/26/2005 10:20:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes: Be careful of bonsai books and articles written in or translated to British English. Most Americans (I hope) have figured out by now that what the British mean by compost (potting soil) is not what we mean by compost (rotted vegetation used to improve garden soil). And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of "compost." Loam means loam in the older Bonsai books, they just didn't water as often. Loam means a soil that holds together when damp and squeezed in the fist. There is a technical definition that includes moisture content and how long it holds a clump. But I was puzzled for a long time by British soil recipes which include "loam." In the US, loam is rich heavy garden soil. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Naka said Black loam so it must be rich soil loam per se il clay
wrote: In a message dated 3/27/05 12:02:09 AM, writes: I finally figured it out when I ran across a reference to Akadama as "loam." They mean clay, especially fired or processed clay. Kevin Bailey informs me that I am mistaken, & the dictionary definition of loam is the same in UK as it is here. That makes some of the bonsai books even more puzzling. Is the British climate such that loam is really an appropriate bonsai soil component? Is British loam somehow different from American loam? Iris Gardening Rule: When weeding, the best way to make sure you are removing a weed and not a valuable plant is to pull on it. If it comes out of the ground easily, it is a valuable plant. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
In the UK manure is animal excrement, more often than not from the back end
of a horse. Compost is rotted vegetation, exactly the same as over there. The difficulty you seem to be having is that we have potting composts, which are mainly composed of peat or coconut fibre. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy M. Rhodes" To: Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem In a message dated 3/26/2005 10:20:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: Be careful of bonsai books and articles written in or translated to British English. Most Americans (I hope) have figured out by now that what the British mean by compost (potting soil) is not what we mean by compost (rotted vegetation used to improve garden soil). And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of "compost." Loam means loam in the older Bonsai books, they just didn't water as often. Loam means a soil that holds together when damp and squeezed in the fist. There is a technical definition that includes moisture content and how long it holds a clump. But I was puzzled for a long time by British soil recipes which include "loam." In the US, loam is rich heavy garden soil. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
MANURE meaning compost is an old term from back when compost was mostly made
from manure. I have a great 3" thick book (it is lent out at the moment so I can't quote it unfortunately) from the 1940's that explains how to compost plant materials (types, ratios, sizes of piles, etc.) for from small guys to huge farms. Since most of what they were using back then WAS manure, they still called the finished compost "manure" even though it was vegetative in origin. LOAM is defined as equal parts sand (larger particles), silt (smaller particles) and clay (tiny particles so small they hold an electric charge and literally stick together). Loam properties do include the ability to at least slightly hold a shape when moist as well as breaks up into small chunks easily when dry. As a soil type, other than sand, it is really the only one that holds air and, like sand, plays well (doesn't clump up) with other particles in your soil making it of possible use in Bonsai mixes. Unlike sand, with the different particle sizes making up each little piece, it does hold some water. USDA Soil Conservation Service gives this rather technical definition: 7-27% clay particles, 28-50% silt particles, and less than 52% sand particles. So you would not say you had 50% loam and 50% clay since loam is a mix; rather that would be clayey loam -- or loam that stuck together more than it should which would be a real stinker in a bonsai pot! hth, John in Houston...and a former Soils Specialist in a region where everything but the sand is "clayey" ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes:
And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of "compost." Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer. Iris ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem
In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes: And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of "compost." Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer. Iris But, Iris, When I say fertilizer I do not mean manure - when I had horses, I did not shovel fertilizer, I shovelled manure. I did "compost" manure if I wanted to use it on the roses. I never used manure alone - I was always advised not to do so. Lynn ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
This conversation, if I may be so bold, is a load of manure.!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Boyd" To: Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 7:08 PM Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes: And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of "compost." Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer. Iris But, Iris, When I say fertilizer I do not mean manure - when I had horses, I did not shovel fertilizer, I shovelled manure. I did "compost" manure if I wanted to use it on the roses. I never used manure alone - I was always advised not to do so. Lynn ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
John T. Jarrett wrote: Hi John since loam is a mix; rather that would be clayey loam -- or loam that stuck together more than it should which would be a real stinker in a bonsai pot! all loam is as it degradates wery quickly this is why Akadama a sort of harder loam is better .. its only use is for drainage substitute it with coarse sand or coarse lava o pumice or neuter stone ( not calcar )like granite with sharp edges(very important) and you will get the same risult ,& with no problems of soil that might get clumped and the roots will split more easily and grow dense I bought a palmatum deshojo that was grown in a sort of 4 mm granite gravel teh soil was drying a little too fast I agree, but the plant was growing wonderfully well and when repotted I found the best roots system ever extremely dense and very *hairy * since then for my climate zone 7 I use coarse gravel + some Compost home made ( rotten oak leaves )25% when I repot I recuperate the gravel by sifting and wash and sterlize and use it again hth, John in Houston...and a former Soils Specialist in a region where everything but the sand is "clayey" ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
Hi Lynn
Lynn Boyd wrote: Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes: And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of "compost." Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer. Iris you *composted * manure that is a way to make manure, too acidic and burning plants, to degradate and be good for your roses .. manure is manure( cattle only) from birds is called guano ,and compost or composting is a physical chemical action on organic substances done by enzymes that breake thezhm down and after 12 16 months the compost is ready to be used it becomes a rich soil that addes with some sand can be used as such or in mix |
Hi Marty
Marty Haber wrote: This conversation, if I may be so bold, is a load of manure.! no it is interesting as we realize how words change from country to country and as each person sometimes *thinks * it means and often is wrong and this leads to problems on the contrary even ifis a little bit tedious it is very usefuil IMHO Theo «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» |
On Mar 27, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Lynn Boyd wrote:
Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes: And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of "compost." Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer. Iris But, Iris, When I say fertilizer I do not mean manure - when I had horses, I did not shovel fertilizer, I shovelled manure. I did "compost" manure if I wanted to use it on the roses. I never used manure alone - I was always advised not to do so. Lynn Bear in mind that the word "manure" does not always mean animal excrement. When I was doing vegetable gardening people used to talk about "green manure"--usually a winter rye or something like that which could be plowed under in the spring to add nutrients to the soil. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Edmund Castillo++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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