Early in the new Sunset "Bonsai" (still a worthwhile, if a bit
quirky, book, BTW) it says:

"The term bonsai . . . combines two Japanese words, bon meaning
tray and sai meaning to create."

That's a new take on the translation for me -- and doesn't seem
to make much sense.

Where's Peter when you need him? (Ans: In Kyoto having fun ;-)

Ernie?

(Speaking of Peter, he has a very interesting article in the
current issue of International Bonsai.)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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Hi Jim,

In my kanji books, "sai" is defined as "to plant." I'm referring to the
specific character used in the term "bonsai" and not just any old "sai."
The odd translation in the new (and pretty darn good) Sunset Bonsai book is
probably due to a bit of embellishment. Who knows why.... In strict, even
general terms, this is an inaccurate translation. Doesn't matter much, I
guess, since it's not a matter of substance. Have 5 people EVER agreed what
"bonsai" is? ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
Early in the new Sunset "Bonsai" (still a worthwhile, if a bit
quirky, book, BTW) it says:
"The term bonsai . . . combines two Japanese words, bon meaning
tray and sai meaning to create."
That's a new take on the translation for me -- and doesn't seem
to make much sense.
Where's Peter when you need him? (Ans: In Kyoto having fun ;-)
Ernie?
(Speaking of Peter, he has a very interesting article in the
current issue of International Bonsai.)
Jim Lewis

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Rutledge"
Subject: [IBC] A new translation????


Hi Jim,

In my kanji books, "sai" is defined as "to plant." I'm referring to the
specific character used in the term "bonsai" and not just any old "sai."
Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

Since we are talking about translations...
My kanji book lists "En" for garden AND "Tei" for garden. " The Journal of
Japanese Gardening" publication is written by Roth who signs himself as
"Roth Tei-En". I asked Peter A. about this and he really couldn't answer.
What is the difference in the two words. Commonly we see "En" as a garden,
especially in bonsai gardens, ads, business names,etc. Is it possible that
"Tei-en" combined means "Gardener"? but, I don't really get that from the
book translations. Eh?
I'm losing sleep over this! :)

For those who have never read through one of these kanji writing
manuals....wow...how complicated! BTW, There are some GREAT ones at Borders
for the $20-25 range and some MUCH more. I got the Tuttle version, admitedly
because of the price and that it had the NICEST large brush stroke-looking
letters.
Regards,
Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

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Hi Dale,

"Garden" can be niwa or teien or en, but "en" is usually used as a
descriptor, attached to a name (Tokai-en, Mansei-en). The general noun
"garden," is just niwa. I'm not sure where "teien" is used, but it is
probably either dialectic or colloquial.

"Go not to the kanji books for advice, for they will say both no and yes."
-- frustrated Nihongo student.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

----- Original Message -----
From: "dalecochoy"
Since we are talking about translations...
My kanji book lists "En" for garden AND "Tei" for garden. " The Journal
of
Japanese Gardening" publication is written by Roth who signs himself as
"Roth Tei-En". I asked Peter A. about this and he really couldn't answer.
What is the difference in the two words. Commonly we see "En" as a garden,
especially in bonsai gardens, ads, business names,etc. Is it possible
that
"Tei-en" combined means "Gardener"? but, I don't really get that from the
book translations. Eh?
I'm losing sleep over this! :)
Regards,
Dale Cochoy,

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Rutledge"
Subject: [IBC] A new translation????


Hi Dale,

"Garden" can be niwa or teien or en, but "en" is usually used as a
descriptor, attached to a name (Tokai-en, Mansei-en).

Yes, this is what we mostly see. Tei-en is written as above in Roth's JOJG
magazine signature and kanji on cover. Since he is a Japanese-trained
gardener and expert I thought the combo might translate to "Gardener",
since in the context used the word "garden" alone doesn't fit. I shall look
up "niwa" but I'll probably find that it refers more to a
food-type garden? I find that many forms also seem to point me in the
"botanical garden" type explanation. I remember a bonsai teacher telling
me once that the square around the "en" symbol denoted a fenced garden? I
dunno? When a Bridgestone tire company translator and sumi artist translated
my garden name years ago she ( without asking) wrote out the "en" symbol.

The general noun
"garden," is just niwa. I'm not sure where "teien" is used, but it is
probably either dialectic or colloquial.

"Go not to the kanji books for advice, for they will say both no and yes."
-- frustrated Nihongo student.

Yep, they are mighty confusing!!!

Dale


----- Original Message -----
From: "dalecochoy"
Since we are talking about translations...
My kanji book lists "En" for garden AND "Tei" for garden. " The Journal
of
Japanese Gardening" publication is written by Roth who signs himself as
"Roth Tei-En". I asked Peter A. about this and he really couldn't
answer.
What is the difference in the two words. Commonly we see "En" as a
garden,
especially in bonsai gardens, ads, business names,etc. Is it possible
that
"Tei-en" combined means "Gardener"? but, I don't really get that from
the
book translations. Eh?
I'm losing sleep over this! :)
Regards,
Dale Cochoy,


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****
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Hi Dale. Hi Andy.

Dale notes:
... My kanji book lists "En" for garden AND "Tei" for
garden... I'm losing sleep over this! :)
_Teien_ in Japanese reference to gardens is a proper compound construction
which can mean "garden" or "park." It is composed of the characters _tei_
(can also be pronounced "_niwa_"), which is the early word construction for
"garden area" and _en_ (can also be pronounced _sono_), which can be
written using two different characters (one form without an enclosing square
is primarily used now for "Imperial garden" but was formerly used in the
sense of "garden" or "farm").

From _tei/niwa_, we also get:
_teizen_: "garden"
_sekitei_: "rock garden"
_niwaki_: "garden tree, shrub"
_niwashi_: "gardener"

From _en/sono_, we also get:
_engei_: "gardening, horticulture" (this could be
non-decorative gardening though I've not
traced the full character set to see)
_den'en_: "fields and gardens, rural districts"
_koen_ (long "o"): "park, public garden"
_hanazono_: "flower garden"
_sono_: "literary garden, institution"

.... using _en_ form for Imperial gardens:
_ gyoen_: "Imperial garden"
_naien_: "inner garden of Imperial Palace"
_bun'en_ : "literary world,
anthology, collection f literary masterpieces"
_geien_: "world opf artists & men of letters"
_kohien_: "name of coffee shop (where there
are gardens)"

Gardens as "fields for learning" and for a commercial invitation, I guess.
Now, I'll be losing sleep with you, Dale... :-)

Andy adds:
I remember a bonsai teacher telling me once
that the square around the "en" symbol denoted
a fenced garden? I dunno?
I tried to find the central character enclosed in the most common "_en_"
form with no success...
:-(

A square enclosure with the symbol of a tree centered inside forms the
character _kon_ (also pronounced _koma_ or _komaru_) meaning "be in
trouble." It was Lafcadio Hearn, I think, who noted that this character
arose from the folk belief that placing a tree in the center of an enclosed
forecourt invites spiritual trouble.

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond VA USA

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