hello,
i've just begun a vegetable garden with my cousin on my aunt and
uncle's property. the spot we are planting is right next to a burn
pile. many of the ashes of burnt garbage have been dumped on the
area. while i was digging in the ground i found pieced of charred
plastic and even a battery at on point. i am concerned that this is
not health to be growing in? does any one have advice for me?

happy gardening,
margie

In article ,
(mags) wrote:

hello,
i've just begun a vegetable garden with my cousin on my aunt and
uncle's property. the spot we are planting is right next to a burn
pile. many of the ashes of burnt garbage have been dumped on the
area. while i was digging in the ground i found pieced of charred
plastic and even a battery at on point. i am concerned that this is
not health to be growing in? does any one have advice for me?

happy gardening,
margie

Ick! Can you move the garden area over a little, to get out of the
old trash site? I sure wouldn't grow veggies where old batteries
ended up. Flowers, sure, but not anything that you want to eat.

Jan

On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:52:38 -0900, Jan Flora wrote:
In article ,
(mags) wrote:

hello,
i've just begun a vegetable garden with my cousin on my aunt and
uncle's property. the spot we are planting is right next to a burn
pile. many of the ashes of burnt garbage have been dumped on the
area. while i was digging in the ground i found pieced of charred
plastic and even a battery at on point. i am concerned that this is
not health to be growing in? does any one have advice for me?


try raised beds some distance away. stuff like this dumped on private
property may be cause for legal action against the previous owners.... many
developers in nj have been sued foir doing this

On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:52:38 -0900, Jan Flora wrote:
In article ,
(mags) wrote:

hello,
i've just begun a vegetable garden with my cousin on my aunt and
uncle's property. the spot we are planting is right next to a burn
pile. many of the ashes of burnt garbage have been dumped on the
area. while i was digging in the ground i found pieced of charred
plastic and even a battery at on point. i am concerned that this is
not health to be growing in? does any one have advice for me?


try raised beds some distance away. stuff like this dumped on private
property may be cause for legal action against the previous owners.... many
developers in nj have been sued foir doing this

On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:52:38 -0900, Jan Flora wrote:
In article ,
(mags) wrote:

hello,
i've just begun a vegetable garden with my cousin on my aunt and
uncle's property. the spot we are planting is right next to a burn
pile. many of the ashes of burnt garbage have been dumped on the
area. while i was digging in the ground i found pieced of charred
plastic and even a battery at on point. i am concerned that this is
not health to be growing in? does any one have advice for me?


try raised beds some distance away. stuff like this dumped on private
property may be cause for legal action against the previous owners.... many
developers in nj have been sued foir doing this

writes:
hello,
i've just begun a vegetable garden with my cousin on my aunt and
uncle's property. the spot we are planting is right next to a burn
pile. many of the ashes of burnt garbage have been dumped on the
area. while i was digging in the ground i found pieced of charred
plastic and even a battery at on point. i am concerned that this is
not health to be growing in? does any one have advice for me?

happy gardening,
margie

Margie,

I feel strongly enough about this that after buying my house and
discovering the previous owner had burned trash in a corner of the back
yard, I had the soil dug out there, hauled out, and have slowly replaced
it. While most people wouldn't have the resources to do that, making it
impractical, the suggestions offered here of raised beds seems the most
realistic solution. With a raised bed, I'd go one step farther and lay
some woven geotextile road fabric over the existing soil before starting
the raised beds. The purpose of that would be to prevent mixing of the
soils. It is used in road construction to keep the gravel base from
mixing with the soil underneath to provide a stable foundation for paving.
The woven is definitely better, IMO, than the non-woven; I perceive it as
being more permanent and not as likely to leach bad stuff into the
undersoil. Either will allow water to pass through but will keep the
layer below from mixing with the layer above. And, no, plastic, even
heavy plastic, will not do the same thing because it is not designed for
that use and is not permanent and "breaks up" (and is a real pain to clean
up after the fact while the fabric will always remain in one piece).

I was lucky enough to work for a site contractor and got mine from one of
his suppliers. You might be able to get a scrap from a contractor; it's
worth a try (It comes in rolls of 10-ft width and wider). I also use it to
haul debris to the dump, lay it in the pickup bed and arrange it on the
bed and over the cab so, when the truck is loaded, it will cover the load
when folded back over the bed. Then a couple of ropes across the top and
it's completely covered and secure. At the dump, we simply pull the entire
thing off the truck, lift back the top section and pull it out, fold the
fabric and drive away while everyone else is pulling, shoveling and
throwing their debris out of their trucks. Interestingly, I've noticed
this past year (after doing that for two years previously), that many
other people have purchased tarps and are doing the same thing. For
heavier loads, we also lay heavy ropes under the fabric (to allow them
also to go over the finished load) before we load so they can be attached
to one of the concrete pillars there and just drive forward and let the
truck do the work.

Glenna

I have a related question. How do you tell if your soil
is toxic? We bought our house last January and it was
built 13 years ago. There's a retaining wall to the side
of the house and the wood has a greenish tinge. But it's
damp there. I want to move the asparagus beds against the
retaining wall but I don't want to move them until I
can find out if the retaining wall is arsenic treated
wood. I emailed the previous owner and he's fairly
sure that he wouldn't have used treated wood because
he tried to stay organic but he's hesitant to say
positively that it's not. How can I tell?

Do I have to send a sample to a lab or something?
This is the first time I've run into this so I'm
at a loss on how to find out or even who to contact.

Gayle
================================================== =====
Gayle Surrette STC at NOAA/NESDIS/IPD
(301) 457 5254 MAIL Address:
FB#4 Room 3045
4700 Silver Hill Road, Stop 9909
Washington, DC 20233-9909
================================================== ======

"Gayle Surrette" wrote in message
...
I have a related question. How do you tell if your soil
is toxic? We bought our house last January and it was
built 13 years ago. There's a retaining wall to the side
of the house and the wood has a greenish tinge. But it's
damp there. I want to move the asparagus beds against the
retaining wall but I don't want to move them until I
can find out if the retaining wall is arsenic treated
wood. I emailed the previous owner and he's fairly
sure that he wouldn't have used treated wood because
he tried to stay organic but he's hesitant to say
positively that it's not. How can I tell?

Do I have to send a sample to a lab or something?
This is the first time I've run into this so I'm
at a loss on how to find out or even who to contact.

Gayle
================================================== =====

Gayle,
I would start with the assumption that is Copper arsenic treated wood. I
would think that a retaining wall is ground contact, which requires either
pressure treated lumber or some rot resistant wood, like cedar, redwood, or
cypress. Realy expensive. Maybe, you could replace the wall with some
masonry or stone. If it is treated lumber, it is getting close to its life
expectantcy. And, the more the wood deteriorates, the more the toxins leach
into soil.
I would be more interested in the soil toxin level, maybe there is some
agriculture extension in D.C. or maybe you could check with city
information, and find some help there.
I know you probably didn't want to hear this, but if you are concerned
about soil contamination, then you might want to be proactive. And, just
think how much better stone masonry wall would look. You were speaking of
planting Asparagus, so I think you might be planning to stay for awhile. So
if it is treated lumber, you'll be replacing it anyways. And from what I
gather, treated lumber will not be available, after this year.
Len

On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:05:20 GMT, "len"
wrote:


Does anyone know how long one might expect *untreated*
lumber to last when in contact with the ground?

We're hoping to get raised beds constructed this year, and
I'm trying to compare the advantages of cement blocks vs.
lumber - we can buy either 'landscaping timbers' or regular
boards that are untreated. The 'landscaping timbers' are
about 8" x 8" x 8" - pretty thick - like a railroad tie, but
a bit smaller.

Pat

Pat Meadows wrote:
On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:05:20 GMT, "len"
wrote:


Does anyone know how long one might expect *untreated*
lumber to last when in contact with the ground?

We're hoping to get raised beds constructed this year, and
I'm trying to compare the advantages of cement blocks vs.
lumber - we can buy either 'landscaping timbers' or regular
boards that are untreated. The 'landscaping timbers' are
about 8" x 8" x 8" - pretty thick - like a railroad tie, but
a bit smaller.

Pat


It depends on what species of wood it is. Cypress, locust, bos d' arc,
redwood heart, and a few others will last a *very* long time. Of
course, you might have to go to a local sawmill to get locust or bos d'
arc.

Cedar might be a good choice, but even with that it depends on which
cedar it is :-/

Or get the cheapest wood you can and plan on replacing it occasionally.

Are there any UV stablized recycled plastic products available? Or do
you live in a rocky area where you can get free small boulders or field
stones?

Best regards,
Bob -- test driving a news client, so this might look weird

In article ,
says...
On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:05:20 GMT, "len"
wrote:


Does anyone know how long one might expect *untreated*
lumber to last when in contact with the ground?


snip

Around here, about 2 years. Enough time for the termites to find it
and eat it.



Pat



Bill Sunset Zone 23

On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:48:20 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:


Or get the cheapest wood you can and plan on replacing it occasionally.

Are there any UV stablized recycled plastic products available?

Yes, but we can't afford them. They cost a *lot*.

Or do
you live in a rocky area where you can get free small boulders or field
stones?

Yes. We can't do the physical labor though, and I'm not
patient. I want my raised beds NOW!!!!

I'm 59, with various ailments, I'm not going to get younger
or stronger, I want to garden NOW.

We do hope to sell some produce next year. While I'm not
sure I can, I think I can. I know I can raise beautiful
lovely leaf lettuce very easily. And basil. And other
things.

The crappy produce available here in the supermarkets has to
be seen to be believed. And there's only one farm stand
around - with sky-high prices. Also, it seems that very,
very few people here garden, even though this is a rural
area.

I'd like to be able to sell enough to raise maybe $600/year.
I think that's realistic, and that I have a good shot at it.

Best regards,
Bob -- test driving a news client, so this might look weird

Looks fine to me.

Thanks.

Pat

On Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:41:10 -0700, bill
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:05:20 GMT, "len"
wrote:


Does anyone know how long one might expect *untreated*
lumber to last when in contact with the ground?


snip

Around here, about 2 years. Enough time for the termites to find it
and eat it.


I'm unlikely to have that problem, there seem to be very few
of them around here from all I've heard. We're in the
northern Appalachians and it's pretty cold here in winter,
maybe that's what keeps them away. I don't know.

Pat

In article ,
Pat Meadows writes:
| On Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:41:10 -0700, bill
| wrote:
|
| Does anyone know how long one might expect *untreated*
| lumber to last when in contact with the ground?
|
| Around here, about 2 years. Enough time for the termites to find it
| and eat it.
|
| I'm unlikely to have that problem, there seem to be very few
| of them around here from all I've heard. We're in the
| northern Appalachians and it's pretty cold here in winter,
| maybe that's what keeps them away. I don't know.

It is. We don't have them here, either, but untreated sapwood
(except for yew) will rot to breakage within 12 months, and untreated
heartwood of most non-tropical species (again, except for yew) will
within 3-4 years. Some of the species Bob mentioned are imported
into the UK, and they don't last long in that situation.

But remember that our damp problems are MUCH worse than yours :-(

The key is that we have 3-6 months with comfortably above freezing
temperatures and continual 100% humidity (at soil level), though
with enough air for the fungi to thrive. And they do. There are
only a couple of important wood-eating insects in the UK, and they
aren't in the same ballpark as termites.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
"len" writes:
|
| I would start with the assumption that is Copper arsenic treated wood. I
| would think that a retaining wall is ground contact, which requires either
| pressure treated lumber or some rot resistant wood, like cedar, redwood, or
| cypress. Realy expensive. Maybe, you could replace the wall with some
| masonry or stone. If it is treated lumber, it is getting close to its life
| expectantcy. And, the more the wood deteriorates, the more the toxins leach
| into soil.

Well, yes, but it isn't taken up by plants much, and you need some
arsenic in your diet anyway. Compared with the poisons omitted by
motor vehicles, it is insignificant. If it weren't, Wales would
have become uninhabitable centuries ago.

Don't Panic.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.