simy1 wrote:
There are certain plants that catch diseases. I leave all greens and
all root crops and all bulbs in place, because they never catch
anything, but tomatoes, cucurbita, beans and cabbage, if I know I am
not going to rotate next year, I prefer to remove. Most of my tomatoes
are healthy, but there is one particular heirloom that is hit or miss.
And the cukes get the wilt.

Just curious, where do you write from simy1?

southeast michigan.

southeast michigan.

g'day rob,

yes i use them all the time very successful for me come vsit my web site and
see how we do it:

http://www.users.bigpond.com/gardenlen1/

len

snipped

George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.

I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot
last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned
yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The
butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much
attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks.

Dave wrote:
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm
interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started,
successes or failures etc.

I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot
last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned
yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The
butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much
attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks.

I don't know about acorn, but I did grow butternut once, before I was
told it was impossible! It was a heat-wave year, and they did rather
well. Others here will tell you not to bother, as (unless they've
produced a variety suitable for the British climate) they want a long
hot summer. If you don't get many replies, a Google Groups search of the
group archive will bring up a lot of stuff from the past couple of
years.

I don't think soil testing is worth the expense for most amateurs: if
your garden grows stuff, and you do the usual feeding routine, it's OK.

--
Mike.

Mike Lyle wrote:
Dave wrote:
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm
interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started,
successes or failures etc.

I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot
last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned
yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The
butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much
attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks.

I don't know about acorn, but I did grow butternut once, before I was
told it was impossible! It was a heat-wave year, and they did rather
well. Others here will tell you not to bother, as (unless they've
produced a variety suitable for the British climate) they want a long
hot summer. If you don't get many replies, a Google Groups search of the
group archive will bring up a lot of stuff from the past couple of
years.

I don't think soil testing is worth the expense for most amateurs: if
your garden grows stuff, and you do the usual feeding routine, it's OK.

Oh, this thread is being cross-posted across three groups. I'm located
in the midwest US. The Summer here can be quite hot and dry. In fact it
was rather difficult to judge when the mulched plot needed water. UK
weather is probably similar to the northwest US.

Dave

Hi All,
I have grown butternut squash [ Butternut Sprinter ] with success in most
years. Hope this helps you.

Richard M. Watkin.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm
interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started,
successes or failures etc.

I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot
last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned
yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The
butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much
attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks.

I don't know about acorn, but I did grow butternut once, before I was
told it was impossible! It was a heat-wave year, and they did rather
well. Others here will tell you not to bother, as (unless they've
produced a variety suitable for the British climate) they want a long
hot summer. If you don't get many replies, a Google Groups search of the
group archive will bring up a lot of stuff from the past couple of
years.

I don't think soil testing is worth the expense for most amateurs: if
your garden grows stuff, and you do the usual feeding routine, it's OK.

--
Mike.

R M. Watkin wrote:
Hi All,
I have grown butternut squash [ Butternut Sprinter ] with success in most
years. Hope this helps you.


So what plants are thought to be optimal for a no-till plot? My hope
was that the weeds would be kept under control for squash -- which are
difficult to weed -- but as the season wore on the weeds got pretty
thick. Some weeds seem to be effective mulch penetrators. Also I guess
I didn't really employ "no-till" but till once in the Spring and then
add another layer of mulch on top of that. With that is mind is there
anything else should I till in, such as lime? I have a source of horse
manure but figure that will be loaded with weed seeds. Thanks.

If you lay down a piece of cardboard, punch a central hole for the
squash plant, and then cover with mulch, brambles might make it
through, but most weeds won't.

When you ask about which plants are optimal for a no-till plot, I
assume you mean "clay plot". A sandy plot will be OK with any plant.
Plants that break the soil effectively include radicchio, fava,
cardoon, mache, and potato. Anything with a taproot, though the latter
two do not have one. Even carrot, parsnip, and beets, if you don't mind
the misshapen roots too much.

simy1 wrote:
If you lay down a piece of cardboard, punch a central hole for the
squash plant, and then cover with mulch, brambles might make it
through, but most weeds won't.

When you ask about which plants are optimal for a no-till plot, I
assume you mean "clay plot". A sandy plot will be OK with any plant.
Plants that break the soil effectively include radicchio, fava,
cardoon, mache, and potato. Anything with a taproot, though the latter
two do not have one. Even carrot, parsnip, and beets, if you don't mind
the misshapen roots too much.

Yes, I might try some sort of barrier this year. How about newspaper? I
guess my question has more to do with the quality of the mulch soil.
The several layers of mulch are still deteriorating so I presume this
may favor plants which tolerate acidic low-nitrogen soils??? Thanks.

Newspapers are fine, but if you want to kill brambles and grass,
cardboard is better. But more important than cardboard vs newspapers,
The secret to a good kill is to apply the mulch after growth has
resumed. That way you push down the shoot, and you have a long time
before the paper breaks down and lets perennials through.

There are plants that like degrading mulch, most notably tomatoes,
garlic, potatoes, squash. Degrading mulch tends to be acidic, but not
all the time, and not necessarily low nitrogen unless you use very
brown materials. Lettuce, for example, is sensitive to acidity, but it
will be very happy if planted directly through six month old leaves
mixed with some manure. In practice I always give wood ash to just
about anything i grow except potatoes (I have acid soil, and I prefer
wood chips, the most acid mulch of all, because I plant most
everything in seedling form).

Over time the pH of the degrading mulch climbs up to near neutral
values as it becomes soil. It will start to look like soil. There are
tricks that you can play. First, if you use leaves as mulch, they will
be 99% gone by next year, with a decent pH, so you can seed directly in
the resulting soil. If you use chunkier mulch, like wood chips, you
will have weed protection for two years or more, but you will have to
plant through the chips until they are gone. Wood chips start quite low
in pH but when they are done their soil is similar to that made of
other mulches, if possible with a stronger humus. If you use cardboard
covered with leaves or mulch, the cardboard is 99% gone the next year.
if your mulch is not quite done, and you want to seed directly there,
gently rake it to one side of the bed. Use that side for potatoes or
garlic, and the raked part for carrots and beets. The raked part will
have more weed seeds than if you had not raked it, but still less than
the soil underneath it.

"Maryc" wrote in message
...

George.com Wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm
interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or
failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow
seed or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients
to the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly
leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance
following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob
I got the Lasagna Gradening book. So we tried it. Here in Arkansas
however we have this grass that takes over everything. We tried puting
the composted wood chips free from our city on top but the grass just
grew all through it. So this winter we have put black plastic over the
whole garden hoping to smother it out. I will have to let you know when
it is closer to spring, whether it helped or not.

shit, that post has resurfaced after a while. My raised/no dig gardens have
been in 2 seasons now. They got filled with a combination of everything from
soil and compost to horse poop, old hay, coffee grounds and grass clippings.
Worms mixed everything together nicely. The beds, of which there are 5, have
been planted with a good variety of crops and minimal digging, some initial
earthing up of potatos before using straw and a small drill to put seedlings
or seeds in. Mulching has occurred across 1/2 the garden over peas and
tomatos though still haven't quite figured about mulching around smaller
stuff like carrots, lettuces and the like. With the lettuces mind I planted
them tightly so they formed a living mulch. Crop resiudes have been left on
the garden to rot apart from potatos and tomatos. I have had early blight in
the tomatos (crap season for them so far, few I know are getting them
ripened outdoors) and some potato issue I haven't identified. I am looking
at the Ps & Ts to see how they go and what might be afflicting them. As they
can be temporamental my intention at this point is to dry and burn the crop
residue and re-apply as ash later on. Whether the residue is ok to leave on
the garden may depend what I find through the rest of the season. If I want
to be careful all will be removed, dried and burnt. I am still uming and
arring about cover crops over winter. I have come up with several refeences
that say garlic and mustard are good ways to naturally fumigate/sterilise
soil so I am thinking of following tomatoes with garlic in winter and maybe
putting mustard across other beds, maybe the potatos. If it works ok I may
rotate tomatos around with garlic to follow. I reckon a root crop should be
ok to follow a fruit. Not too worried about green mulches as I have several
piles of horse and chicken poop aging away, that'll suffice for next springs
nutrients. Maybe just leave the straw in place and mustard/garlic over
winter. I am coming to the conclusion of rotating tomatos and potatos every
season, 4 growing spaces, tomatos followed by a year of somethign else,
followed by potatos, followed by a year of something else and then back to
tomatos. Every 4th year maybe garlic following on from the tomatos. Not sure
whether I really need to rotate other things yet, time will tell.

rob

Mulch Mulch Mulch Mulch with Hay and let decompose next year do the
same as in Ruth's Stouts Book

Denis


On 29 Mar 2006 11:22:09 -0800, "simy1" wrote:

Newspapers are fine, but if you want to kill brambles and grass,
cardboard is better. But more important than cardboard vs newspapers,
The secret to a good kill is to apply the mulch after growth has
resumed. That way you push down the shoot, and you have a long time
before the paper breaks down and lets perennials through.

There are plants that like degrading mulch, most notably tomatoes,
garlic, potatoes, squash. Degrading mulch tends to be acidic, but not
all the time, and not necessarily low nitrogen unless you use very
brown materials. Lettuce, for example, is sensitive to acidity, but it
will be very happy if planted directly through six month old leaves
mixed with some manure. In practice I always give wood ash to just
about anything i grow except potatoes (I have acid soil, and I prefer
wood chips, the most acid mulch of all, because I plant most
everything in seedling form).

Over time the pH of the degrading mulch climbs up to near neutral
values as it becomes soil. It will start to look like soil. There are
tricks that you can play. First, if you use leaves as mulch, they will
be 99% gone by next year, with a decent pH, so you can seed directly in
the resulting soil. If you use chunkier mulch, like wood chips, you
will have weed protection for two years or more, but you will have to
plant through the chips until they are gone. Wood chips start quite low
in pH but when they are done their soil is similar to that made of
other mulches, if possible with a stronger humus. If you use cardboard
covered with leaves or mulch, the cardboard is 99% gone the next year.
if your mulch is not quite done, and you want to seed directly there,
gently rake it to one side of the bed. Use that side for potatoes or
garlic, and the raked part for carrots and beets. The raked part will
have more weed seeds than if you had not raked it, but still less than
the soil underneath it.

I got the Lasagna Gradening book. So we tried it. Here in Arkansas however we have this grass that takes over everything. We tried puting the composted wood chips free from our city on top but the grass just grew all through it. So this winter we have put black plastic over the whole garden hoping to smother it out. I will have to let you know when it is closer to spring, whether it helped or not.