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Old 08-07-2007, 09:02 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default most nutritious cultivar of broccoli/cauliflower?

i like these two species because conventional wisom has it that they
produce the most nutrients per square foot of garden space.

Which cultivars are the champs at nutrient contents?

The other day, I ate at a "Ruth's Chris" steakhouse. The broccoli
sidedish, which by the way wasn't included with the steak, cost $8.
BUT, it was the sweetest broccoli I have ever tasted.

Is it possible that they _cheated_ somehow in preparing (it was
steamed) it, and artificially sweetened it?

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Old 08-07-2007, 09:21 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default most nutritious cultivar of broccoli/cauliflower?

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:02:02 -0700, dances_with_barkadas wrote:

i like these two species because conventional wisom has it that they
produce the most nutrients per square foot of garden space.

Which cultivars are the champs at nutrient contents?

The other day, I ate at a "Ruth's Chris" steakhouse. The broccoli
sidedish, which by the way wasn't included with the steak, cost $8. BUT,
it was the sweetest broccoli I have ever tasted.

Is it possible that they _cheated_ somehow in preparing (it was steamed)
it, and artificially sweetened it?


How much butter was on it? Ruth's Chris soak their steaks with melted
butter, so it's not unlikely that their broccoli is covered with butter
also.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:36 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default most nutritious cultivar of broccoli/cauliflower?

wrote:

i like these two species because conventional wisom has it that they
produce the most nutrients per square foot of garden space.

Which cultivars are the champs at nutrient contents?

The other day, I ate at a "Ruth's Chris" steakhouse. The broccoli
sidedish, which by the way wasn't included with the steak, cost $8.
BUT, it was the sweetest broccoli I have ever tasted.

Is it possible that they _cheated_ somehow in preparing (it was
steamed) it, and artificially sweetened it?

Adding a "pinch" of sugar to vegetables while they cook
(and to many fruits) is a standard commercial chef's trick.

Too much sugar and too much salt and too much butter/fat
seem to be the rule in many restaurant kitchens.

As far as varieties of broccoli, I tend to favor
Early Dividend and Premium Crop. I've also had good
results with Packman. I have no idea about the relative
nutritional contents of each, but they taste good and
give me reliable crops which is what I'm after in my
small area of garden space. YMMV.

I haven't grown cauliflower in years. It takes up
too much space for the payoff compared to other things
I could be growing. And it's fussy about being blanched
and such too. Sorry I can't help with that one.

Nyssa, who only eats restaurant food once a month

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Old 09-07-2007, 05:53 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default most nutritious cultivar of broccoli/cauliflower?

On Jul 9, 5:02 am, wrote:
i like these two species because conventional wisom has it that they
produce the most nutrients per square foot of garden space.

Which cultivars are the champs at nutrient contents?


Check this out

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/reprint/23/6/669

They mention that there seem to be trade-offs between productivity and
other qualities of commercial cultivars of vegetables including
broccoli but don't list the cultivars. It is handy however as it
suggests that studies of such do exist. If you want to follow it up I
would search the USDA or the Journal of American College of Nutrition
who published the paper.


The other day, I ate at a "Ruth's Chris" steakhouse. The broccoli
sidedish, which by the way wasn't included with the steak, cost $8.
BUT, it was the sweetest broccoli I have ever tasted.

Is it possible that they _cheated_ somehow in preparing (it was
steamed) it, and artificially sweetened it?



Yes, quite possible.

David

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Old 09-07-2007, 08:25 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default most nutritious cultivar of broccoli/cauliflower?

In article .com,
" wrote:

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/reprint/23/6/669


Seeing as healthy garden soil is about 20% - 30% clay do you want to
expand on your view of colloidal clay?
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/


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Old 10-07-2007, 09:45 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default most nutritious cultivar of broccoli/cauliflower?

On Jul 9, 4:25 pm, Billy Rose wrote:
In article .com,

" wrote:
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/reprint/23/6/669


Seeing as healthy garden soil is about 20% - 30% clay do you want to
expand on your view of colloidal clay?
--
Billyhttp://angryarab.blogspot.com/


The paper doesn't mention clay colloids nor the effect of soil on the
nutritional value of vegetables. I am sorry I don't understand what
you are getting at - what do you have in mind Billy?

David


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Old 10-07-2007, 06:05 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default most nutritious cultivar of broccoli/cauliflower?

In article .com,
" wrote:

On Jul 9, 4:25 pm, Billy Rose wrote:
In article .com,

" wrote:
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/reprint/23/6/669


Seeing as healthy garden soil is about 20% - 30% clay do you want to
expand on your view of colloidal clay?
--
Billyhttp://angryarab.blogspot.com/


The paper doesn't mention clay colloids nor the effect of soil on the
nutritional value of vegetables. I am sorry I don't understand what
you are getting at - what do you have in mind Billy?

David


From our previous conversation, I got the feeing that there was more you
wanted to say about your plots or fields, as if there was a uniqueness
that was instructive in them. Maybe not.

Any feel for the sand, silt, clay composition of you garden? (If that is
the right term. I never did know the magnitude of your farming/gardening
efforts.) What do you grow?

There was a term, "mineralized", that didn't get explained. Upon further
reading, I find it refers to the release of cell nutrient to the soil
upon the death of the organism (especially important because of the
colonies of bacteria that have a symbiotic relationship with the growing
tips of the roots).
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:24 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default most nutritious cultivar of broccoli/cauliflower?

On Jul 11, 2:05 am, Billy Rose wrote:

Seeing as healthy garden soil is about 20% - 30% clay do you want to
expand on your view of colloidal clay?
--
Billyhttp://angryarab.blogspot.com/


The paper doesn't mention clay colloids nor the effect of soil on the
nutritional value of vegetables. I am sorry I don't understand what
you are getting at - what do you have in mind Billy?


David


From our previous conversation, I got the feeing that there was more you
wanted to say about your plots or fields, as if there was a uniqueness
that was instructive in them. Maybe not.


Well my place is nowhere near unique but moving here and adapting to
it was instructive for me and I thought that talking about the role of
colloids in soil chemistry might be instructive to others.

Any feel for the sand, silt, clay composition of you garden? (If that is
the right term. I never did know the magnitude of your farming/gardening
efforts.) What do you grow?


Until 4 years ago I spent 25 years on a suburban block that was in
sandstone country, in a maritime warm temperate climate, very mild.
The soil was from zero to 4ft deep where you ran into the bedrock
sandstone. The soil there was dirty sand with a few small rocks. It
was on a slope near the top of a hill and you could pour water on to
it and it would be dry within 2 days. To start with I had to add
fertiliser frequently just to support low-medium intensity growing. I
spent my time begging and buying organic matter to dig in and improve
the water and nutrient holding capacity. In this situation there was
almost zero clay, I was relying on organic colloids to bind the
nutrient ions. After 25 years it didn't look too bad. But I never had
a problem with waterlogging!

The last 4 years I have been on 50 acres on the banks of a creek that
has pretensions of being a river sometimes, the climate is much
harsher. We get hard frost in winter but not ice or snow and it gets
very hot in summer, often 95F and up to 107F. The bottom land where I
am is a sedimentary basin containing coal and other layers. The
bedrock (mudstone) at my place is 4ft to 15ft down. Then there is
smectitic clay, yellow-brown, plastic when wet and like rock when
dry. Thanks to the river there is about 4-6in of topsoil which is
nearly black clay silt. It would be something like equal parts clay,
larger particles and organic matter. It doesn't drain particlarly
well but does permit infiltration. Without this topsoil I would have
nothing of value.

Most of the land was cleared over 100 years ago and was good enough
for dairy farming. Now I agist a big slice to a neighbour who runs
beef cattle and I run horses on the "home" paddock of 12 acres. Here
I am planting trees and shrubs by the hundred (the species would only
mean something to those who know Australian natives), we have an
orchard of 50 trees (oranges, lemons, limes, cumquat, apples, pears,
quince, medlar, plums, peaches, apricots, nectarines, feijoas,
hazlenuts, mulberry, persimons) an ornamental garden and a vege garden
each about 1000 sq ft. I irrigate the gardens from the river except
in severe drought when it stops flowing (there is a dam for backup),
or in flood when you watch things going under water.

What was instructive to me about this change of location was .....
where do I start there is so much. To keep this down to a sensible
length I will just talk about the soil.

I had to adjust to create drainage, luckily the place is on a gentle
slope so the main trick was to not do things that allowed ponding.
All the fruit trees are planted on mounds. If you dig down to plant
them in a hole the hole becomes a pond when it rains, the roots rot
and the trees die. The vege garden beds are built up.

I have 10 horses on 8 acres (they are kept out of the gardens mostly)
which is a very high stocking rate but not excessive in this case
provided it rains now and then. One of the benefits of the clay sub
soil is that it slowly takes up water and then releases it again. So
if you have a couple of weeks of showers the sub soil fills up. The
result is that the pasture stays greener than many areas including
some that have higher rainfall. The gardens benefit in the same way
but more over the short term.

Starting from pasture that was pH 5.5 and compacted I sprayed the
grass and waited for it to die. I then added horse manure, chicken
litter, lime, gypsum, dolomite and some potassium sulphate and had it
plowed well. I then made raised beds. These are mulched with organic
material which gets incorporated after 6-9 months. After a year the
soil is great, contrast this with the previous place where after many
years it wasn't really very productive. It is extremely fertile, pH
6.5 and has good water holding.

Clay soil is notorious for becoming water repellent but mine takes up
water slowly and the amended topsoil takes it up quickly. In summer I
can put 3cm (over an inch) on the vege garden in 1 1/2 hours and
except for some spillage on the paths it will soak it all up.

What's in the vege garden, all year round: asparagus, rhubarb,
strawberries, kale, collards, leeks, globe artichokes, silver beet,
horse radish and many cooking herbs. Right now there are cauliflower,
broccoli, cabbage, several chinese brassicas, mizuna, lettuce,
aragula, beets, peas, snow peas, broad beans, parsnips and garlic. In
summer I have tomatos, capsicum, chillis, egg plant, beans, zuccini,
squash, marrow, pumpkin, cucumber, okra and jerusalem artichokes. I
have probably forgtten some but you get the idea. I am only limited
in what I can grow by climate.

Enough shoping lists. My point is that clay country is not a death
sentence, on the contrary I would now prefer to break down clay silt
to building up sand. This is due to the colloidal nature which holds
both water and nutrients.

David




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