writes:
Omelet wrote:
We just had a driveway put in on our wooded property up
north in NY. The driveway goes back around 120 yards from
the main "road". The guy used large gravel, item 4, etc...
He refused to do it with out the geotextile. It came out
pretty well and according to him, it'll be there for years
and years inspite of the rough winters in that area.

I have a gravel driveway too.

It's a bitch to weed where I don't want to use roundup.

Well, it's only been in a week and hasn't gotten much rain
but I suspect having just been up there for 6 days, ain't
much gonna grow through this sob.... If you want to know
exactly what was done, I can ask Rick the next time I talk
to him, probably some time this week to make sure the well's
in. Getting water without that was a royal PITA.

The weeds won't grow through it. However, as dirt collects in the
rock/gravel, they will grow on top of it. The good part is that they are
very easy to pull since their roots are only down to the fabric. I put it
down around my rhodies after I lay a soaker hose, then bark dust on top of
the fabric. I still get occasional weeds in there after three years of
dust blowing in, however they easily pull up so I'm still happy about it.
The weeds that do start seem mostly not to last. I suspect it's because
the top doesn't get water during the summer so only the hardiest make it
until the end of June. :-)

I suspect raking the bark dust would have also eliminated any weeds
growing as it would expose their roots to the sun.

The good thing about is if I ever want to get rid of it, it will be only
the two pieces I put down to remove, not the jillions of pieces of black
plastic I had to clean out of the flower beds when I moved here!

Where we put it on the RV pad in the back has little vegetation. When I
bought this house, that area was a 12-plus-foot high bunch of Himalayan
blackberries. We used a backhoe to dig them out and also hauled off extra
dirt to help ensure getting most of the roots. I then violated a basic
belief of mine and we added casaron (?) to the area (the only poison ever
in my yard), covered it with fabric, then the gravel. That was in 1999
and all is still in good shape, little vegetation and all the gravel still
in place. However, it doesn't get a lot of traffic.g

This morning, I pulled up some fabric that I had covering the yard by the
driveway that I didn't want to deal with. There were occasionally a
series of roots that were growing all around trying to get through. It
was actually quite funny. The weeds that were growing on the top there
were already dried for lack of moisture so were easy to pull off with no
root depth. Actually, it was a bit weird. LOL

Glenna

This has been an excellent example of a 'high-jacked'
thread. What about Sarah and her tomato problem? There has
been all kinds of advice for the driveway problems and next
to nothing to help out Sarah.

Hobo


Glenna Rose wrote:
writes:

Omelet wrote:

We just had a driveway put in on our wooded property up
north in NY. The driveway goes back around 120 yards from
the main "road". The guy used large gravel, item 4, etc...
He refused to do it with out the geotextile. It came out
pretty well and according to him, it'll be there for years
and years inspite of the rough winters in that area.

I have a gravel driveway too.

It's a bitch to weed where I don't want to use roundup.

Well, it's only been in a week and hasn't gotten much rain
but I suspect having just been up there for 6 days, ain't
much gonna grow through this sob.... If you want to know
exactly what was done, I can ask Rick the next time I talk
to him, probably some time this week to make sure the well's
in. Getting water without that was a royal PITA.


The weeds won't grow through it. However, as dirt collects in the
rock/gravel, they will grow on top of it. The good part is that they are
very easy to pull since their roots are only down to the fabric. I put it
down around my rhodies after I lay a soaker hose, then bark dust on top of
the fabric. I still get occasional weeds in there after three years of
dust blowing in, however they easily pull up so I'm still happy about it.
The weeds that do start seem mostly not to last. I suspect it's because
the top doesn't get water during the summer so only the hardiest make it
until the end of June. :-)

I suspect raking the bark dust would have also eliminated any weeds
growing as it would expose their roots to the sun.

The good thing about is if I ever want to get rid of it, it will be only
the two pieces I put down to remove, not the jillions of pieces of black
plastic I had to clean out of the flower beds when I moved here!

Where we put it on the RV pad in the back has little vegetation. When I
bought this house, that area was a 12-plus-foot high bunch of Himalayan
blackberries. We used a backhoe to dig them out and also hauled off extra
dirt to help ensure getting most of the roots. I then violated a basic
belief of mine and we added casaron (?) to the area (the only poison ever
in my yard), covered it with fabric, then the gravel. That was in 1999
and all is still in good shape, little vegetation and all the gravel still
in place. However, it doesn't get a lot of traffic.g

This morning, I pulled up some fabric that I had covering the yard by the
driveway that I didn't want to deal with. There were occasionally a
series of roots that were growing all around trying to get through. It
was actually quite funny. The weeds that were growing on the top there
were already dried for lack of moisture so were easy to pull off with no
root depth. Actually, it was a bit weird. LOL

Glenna

In article ,
Hobo wrote:

This has been an excellent example of a 'high-jacked'
thread. What about Sarah and her tomato problem? There has
been all kinds of advice for the driveway problems and next
to nothing to help out Sarah.

Hobo

Nod of the hat to Ann who out of the kindness of her heart usually keeps
us on track. Even so, there have been 4 responders to Sarah's question:

Hello....

I planted tomatoes in southern New Mexico. The ground had no previous
garden, looked OK. I tilled in organic compost to 10", lots of
compost. Planted several varieties, 15 plants, in a row. Automatic
watering with drip hose, ground covered by black plastic weed stopper
(breathes). Killed grass around with roundup (had bermuda reaching
into garden). Covered all plants with plastic bags first. Bags seemed
to make hot house and make tomatoes grow but Ieft them on 2 days and
it killed plants on one side of garden (more sun). Replaced those with
new plants. Put time release fetrilize on soil and soaked in when
first planted, have used liquid fertilizer two times since. Direct sun
5 - 6 hours a day, lots of indirect light (shade under tree)
otherwise.

Planted 1.5 months ago. All plants, old and new, at just sitting
there, no or very little increase in height...all except one plant on
the end away from new plants. This one is growing very well, lush,
getting taller. Others have green tops, lower limbs died some time
ago. The green tops look healthy but donig nothing, some scraggly.
Don't know why but get the feeling some of them are on their way to
dying, or maybe they just won't grow.

Why aren't they growing? Searched the web, I see lots of diseases, and
will try to look close at the plants when I return (on vacation for
few days).

Any advice would really be appreciated. I only grew tomatoes once
before, in New Jersey, and they were a spectacular success with little
effort.

Thanks very much,
Sarah

This was posted in rec.gardens.edible and separately in rec.gardens.
Between the two sites, Sara as received 13 responses to her question.
The thread moves on but the question has been addressed.

The Lower limbs of my tomatoes aren't doing so well either but then they
are 3'+ tall and have bush beans blocking their sunlight at lower
levels. I have grown (and am growing, I hope) tomatoes in areas that
only have 3-4 hours of Sun/day. Granted some need more Sun than others.

Kay suggested removing one plant and repotting it with commercial
potting soil in a 5 gallon container to see if there was an improvement
in the plants growth.

Sara has not been ignored. Thank you for caring Hobo.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

Billy Rose wrote:

I planted tomatoes in southern New Mexico. The ground had no previous
garden, looked OK. I tilled in organic compost to 10", lots of
compost. Planted several varieties, 15 plants, in a row. Automatic
watering with drip hose, ground covered by black plastic weed stopper
(breathes). Killed grass around with roundup (had bermuda reaching
into garden). Covered all plants with plastic bags first.


Covering individual plants doesn't prevent the defolient from
penetrating the soil. Every time you water or it rains the round up
perimeter expands.


Bags seemed
to make hot house and make tomatoes grow but Ieft them on 2 days and
it killed plants on one side of garden (more sun).

The sun wasn't the major culprit.

Replaced those with
new plants. Put time release fetrilize on soil and soaked in when
first planted, have used liquid fertilizer two times since. Direct sun
5 - 6 hours a day, lots of indirect light (shade under tree)
otherwise.

Planted 1.5 months ago. All plants, old and new, at just sitting
there, no or very little increase in height...all except one plant on
the end away from new plants. This one is growing very well, lush,
getting taller.


You missed that spot with the roundup... you need better aim.


Others have green tops, lower limbs died some time
ago. The green tops look healthy but donig nothing, some scraggly.
Don't know why but get the feeling some of them are on their way to
dying, or maybe they just won't grow.

Why aren't they growing?

See above. duh

I can't believe any sane person would use round up anywhere near any
kind of garden plants. It'll be at least two years before the roundup
in the soil fully breaks down. I'd move the garden.

In article . com,
Sheldon wrote:


I can't believe any sane person would use round up anywhere near any
kind of garden plants. It'll be at least two years before the roundup
in the soil fully breaks down. I'd move the garden.

Some people don't know better. I'm sure she does now. ;-)

You are not supposed to use Round Up anywhere near edible garden plants
anyway. It's on the bottle iirc?

It's also only supposed to kill plants who's leaves come in contact with
it. Soil distribution is not supposed to affect other plants growth...

but who trusts Monsanto?
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Jul 9, 11:13?am, Omelet wrote:
In article . com,

Sheldon wrote:

I can't believe any sane person would use round up anywhere near any
kind of garden plants. It'll be at least two years before the roundup
in the soil fully breaks down. I'd move the garden.

Some people don't know better. I'm sure she does now. ;-)

You are not supposed to use Round Up anywhere near edible garden plants
anyway. It's on the bottle iirc?

It's also only supposed to kill plants who's leaves come in contact with
it. Soil distribution is not supposed to affect other plants growth...

but who trusts Monsanto?

Roundup is systemic, it's primarilly applied to foilage but once in
the soil it is taken up by plant roots as well. These kind of
defolients need to be applied very carefully, it's real easy to have
over-spray of 50, 100 feet, and more. Even when the treated plants
die the defoliant is still in the dead plant and will remain potent
long after the plant is composted and its dust blows wherever. I used
to use roundup on my gravel driveway and around building foundations,
but no more, it also poisons the animals that eat the vegetation, the
insects, and even walk there. I'd rather live with some weeds...
those that encroach on my gardens I pull up by hand, use mulch, and
cultivate... I love my new Mantis.

In article om,
says...
Roundup is systemic, it's primarilly applied to foilage but once in
the soil it is taken up by plant roots as well. These kind of
defolients need to be applied very carefully, it's real easy to have
over-spray of 50, 100 feet, and more. Even when the treated plants
die the defoliant is still in the dead plant and will remain potent
long after the plant is composted and its dust blows wherever. I used
to use roundup on my gravel driveway and around building foundations,
but no more, it also poisons the animals that eat the vegetation, the
insects, and even walk there. I'd rather live with some weeds...
those that encroach on my gardens I pull up by hand, use mulch, and
cultivate...

I grow my veggies in large buckets about 2' in diameter and 2' tall that
are in a mulched area, I spray the mulch monthly with weed killer, but
the plants are isolated from the ground by the buckets... This has
worked well for us, we can even move them as needed. Now if I could just
keep the dogs from picking the green tomato's before they ripen.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

In article ,
Leythos wrote:

In article om,
says...
Roundup is systemic, it's primarilly applied to foilage but once in
the soil it is taken up by plant roots as well. These kind of
defolients need to be applied very carefully, it's real easy to have
over-spray of 50, 100 feet, and more. Even when the treated plants
die the defoliant is still in the dead plant and will remain potent
long after the plant is composted and its dust blows wherever. I used
to use roundup on my gravel driveway and around building foundations,
but no more, it also poisons the animals that eat the vegetation, the
insects, and even walk there. I'd rather live with some weeds...
those that encroach on my gardens I pull up by hand, use mulch, and
cultivate...

I grow my veggies in large buckets about 2' in diameter and 2' tall that
are in a mulched area, I spray the mulch monthly with weed killer, but
the plants are isolated from the ground by the buckets... This has
worked well for us, we can even move them as needed. Now if I could just
keep the dogs from picking the green tomato's before they ripen.

Hot wire.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article ,
Omelet wrote:

I grow my veggies in large buckets about 2' in diameter and 2' tall that
are in a mulched area, I spray the mulch monthly with weed killer, but
the plants are isolated from the ground by the buckets... This has
worked well for us, we can even move them as needed. Now if I could just
keep the dogs from picking the green tomato's before they ripen.

Hot wire.

Use insulated metal buckets and attach hot wire to bucket. Bare feet on
the ground will complete the circuit when the bucket or plant is
touched.

No Joe, you can't just run a 220 line out to the bucket.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

In article
,
Billy Rose wrote:

In article ,
Omelet wrote:

I grow my veggies in large buckets about 2' in diameter and 2' tall that
are in a mulched area, I spray the mulch monthly with weed killer, but
the plants are isolated from the ground by the buckets... This has
worked well for us, we can even move them as needed. Now if I could just
keep the dogs from picking the green tomato's before they ripen.

Hot wire.

Use insulated metal buckets and attach hot wire to bucket. Bare feet on
the ground will complete the circuit when the bucket or plant is
touched.

No Joe, you can't just run a 220 line out to the bucket.

lol I'd just run an insulated single wire around the plants. ;-)

Setting up a hot wire is actually pretty inexpensive.
They have kits at many farm stores. Tractor Supply for one.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article ,
Omelet wrote:

Use insulated metal buckets and attach hot wire to bucket. Bare feet on
the ground will complete the circuit when the bucket or plant is
touched.

No Joe, you can't just run a 220 line out to the bucket.

lol I'd just run an insulated single wire around the plants. ;-)

Setting up a hot wire is actually pretty inexpensive.
They have kits at many farm stores. Tractor Supply for one.
--
I guessed I was thinkin' that Joe would just scrape the insulation off
of one end of an extension cord and attach that to the bucket but the
amperage would fry the plant as well. Still, I can hear the wheels
spinning in Joe's mind, so let me remind him, if a neighbor's kid should
touch it, he would have a dead plant an a mountain of paperwork to fill
out, not to mention cutting checks to his lawyer.

That should keep in in line for a little while.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

In article
,
Billy Rose wrote:

In article ,
Omelet wrote:

Use insulated metal buckets and attach hot wire to bucket. Bare feet on
the ground will complete the circuit when the bucket or plant is
touched.

No Joe, you can't just run a 220 line out to the bucket.

lol I'd just run an insulated single wire around the plants. ;-)

Setting up a hot wire is actually pretty inexpensive.
They have kits at many farm stores. Tractor Supply for one.
--
I guessed I was thinkin' that Joe would just scrape the insulation off
of one end of an extension cord and attach that to the bucket but the
amperage would fry the plant as well. Still, I can hear the wheels
spinning in Joe's mind, so let me remind him, if a neighbor's kid should
touch it, he would have a dead plant an a mountain of paperwork to fill
out, not to mention cutting checks to his lawyer.

That should keep in in line for a little while.

Good fences make good neighbors...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.gardens.]
(breathes). Killed grass around with roundup (had bermuda reaching
into garden). Covered all plants with plastic bags first.


Covering individual plants doesn't prevent the defolient from
penetrating the soil. Every time you water or it rains the round up

1) Glyphosate is not a defoliant.

2) Glyphosate is inactivated by binding with soil particles, particularly
clays and organics. Read the section on "environmental fate"
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/dieno
chlor-glyphosate/glyphosate-ext.html OR
http://tinyurl.com/yvu7sp

Plants accidentally sprayed with glyphosate can be salvaged if you dump
muddy water on them immediately.

IMO, glyphosate is unlikely to be the cause of the issues here. I still
want to know soil pH, how far down the water is getting into the soil,
and temperatures. Much more likely candidates.

Kay

In article ,
says...
In article ,
Leythos wrote:

In article om,
says...
Roundup is systemic, it's primarilly applied to foilage but once in
the soil it is taken up by plant roots as well. These kind of
defolients need to be applied very carefully, it's real easy to have
over-spray of 50, 100 feet, and more. Even when the treated plants
die the defoliant is still in the dead plant and will remain potent
long after the plant is composted and its dust blows wherever. I used
to use roundup on my gravel driveway and around building foundations,
but no more, it also poisons the animals that eat the vegetation, the
insects, and even walk there. I'd rather live with some weeds...
those that encroach on my gardens I pull up by hand, use mulch, and
cultivate...

I grow my veggies in large buckets about 2' in diameter and 2' tall that
are in a mulched area, I spray the mulch monthly with weed killer, but
the plants are isolated from the ground by the buckets... This has
worked well for us, we can even move them as needed. Now if I could just
keep the dogs from picking the green tomato's before they ripen.

Hot wire.

I don't have AC power down there at this time, but it's an option. I was
using 3' high chicken wire, but they jump over it right now.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

Leythos expounded:

I spray the mulch monthly with weed killer

I'd just stir the mulch with a scuffle hoe or something. Works just
as well and won't poison me.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************