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Old 04-11-2008, 12:43 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised

We are ready to till up our garden, and want to raise it in beds or
platforms so us old people don't have to bend over so much. Is it practical
to raise them to desk level, or is just a foot or two sufficient? I would
think that whatever you made the raised bed from would rot from water and
gook within a few years. And then, if you use cinderblock or cement, you're
talking high cost and a lot of skilled labor.

Help appreciated.

Steve

--
-Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.-


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Old 04-11-2008, 01:28 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised

On 11/3/2008 3:43 PM, SteveB wrote:
We are ready to till up our garden, and want to raise it in beds or
platforms so us old people don't have to bend over so much. Is it practical
to raise them to desk level, or is just a foot or two sufficient? I would
think that whatever you made the raised bed from would rot from water and
gook within a few years. And then, if you use cinderblock or cement, you're
talking high cost and a lot of skilled labor.

Help appreciated.

Steve


Raised beds are generally done to improve drainage in heavy soils, not
to make the beds convenient for people. If you wish to raise your beds
for your convenience, do them as high as you want. Just remember that
the higher you make a bed, the stronger you must make the frame.

I have one raised bed, a square just about a foot high and 40 inches on
a side. This is for a Mineola tangelo because citrus needs soils that
draing very well while my soil is adobe clay. The bed is framed with a
single layer of unmortared cinder blocks. I filled the holes in the
blocks with potting mix and planted wax-leaf begonias in them.

I also have a raised miniature circular bed that is about 6 inches high
and 15 inches in diameter. This is for a foxglove plant. The bed is
framed with a cereal box that I cut apart and stapled to create a ring.
I expect this frame to decompose, by which time the foxglove roots
should hold the raised soil together in a mound.

The rest of my garden is at the original level. I'm 67 and have a bad
back. I work much of my garden on my knees. I use a step bench that
can be turned upside-down; under the step is a 1-inch pad of foam rubber
for my knees. The legs (for when it's right-side-up) assist me to stand
up. Right-side-up, it's very handy for sitting and resting. See my
http://www.rossde.com/garden/tools.html; scroll down a little past
half-way.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:13 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
Val Val is offline
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Default How raised is raised


"David E. Ross" wrote in message
...

Raised beds are generally done to improve drainage in heavy soils, not
to make the beds convenient for people.


You, David E. Ross, are without a doubt one of the most arrogantly ignorant
twits ever encountered in this group!! No, I take that back........you are
just a dumb ****!!

Val


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Old 04-11-2008, 02:21 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised


"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
news
We are ready to till up our garden, and want to raise it in beds or
platforms so us old people don't have to bend over so much. Is it
practical to raise them to desk level, or is just a foot or two
sufficient? I would think that whatever you made the raised bed from
would rot from water and gook within a few years. And then, if you use
cinderblock or cement, you're talking high cost and a lot of skilled
labor.

Help appreciated.

Steve

--


Usually they are built some number of boards (or bricks) high. So if you
make them two 8" or 10" boards high you can sit on the edge or sit on a
stool on the path and lean over the bed, provided that they are not too
wide, about 3-4 ft is good assuming access from both sides. It would be
good to make a mock-up and see if your mobility permits you to access the
bed comfortably before starting construction. Try kneeling or kneeling over
a stool or crate (ie it supports your chest) as people find different
postures comfortable. It is practical to make them desk high but you would
be looking at more substantial construction as you are now building higher
walls that have to hold back heavy wet soil.

There are timbers that will last for many years in contact with the soil.
I would stay away from the heavily chemically treated sort - especially for
a vege garden. Here in Australia suitable untreated timbers are among the
native hardwoods, if you get the right sort your fence posts (or garden
beds) will last 30-40 years in the ground. The building trade (here) has a
rating system for timber called durability class which will guide you. I
don't know where you are or what sort of timber is available so I cannot be
specific. Concrete blocks will work too. As with many things the better
solutions tend to be more expensive in the short term but may not be if you
look at their total life.

David

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Old 04-11-2008, 02:25 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised

In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

I have one raised bed, a square just about a foot high and 40 inches on
a side. This is for a Mineola tangelo because citrus needs soils that
draing very well while my soil is adobe clay. The bed is framed with a
single layer of unmortared cinder blocks. I filled the holes in the
blocks with potting mix and planted wax-leaf begonias in them.


I've also built two raised beds with unmortared cinderblock 3 bricks
high, and that hardly takes skilled labor. ;-) I like them but do have
to add soil to them every year.

Not that that's a bad thing.

I like them.

One is for asparagus and the other is for dad's medicinal flowers such
as marigold and purple cone flower.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama


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Old 04-11-2008, 02:25 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised

In article ,
"Val" wrote:

"David E. Ross" wrote in message
...

Raised beds are generally done to improve drainage in heavy soils, not
to make the beds convenient for people.


You, David E. Ross, are without a doubt one of the most arrogantly ignorant
twits ever encountered in this group!! No, I take that back........you are
just a dumb ****!!

Val


What the hell is up with that Val?

Yeesh!
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:36 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message

We are ready to till up our garden, and want to raise it in beds or
platforms so us old people don't have to bend over so much. Is it
practical to raise them to desk level, or is just a foot or two
sufficient? I would think that whatever you made the raised bed from
would rot from water and gook within a few years. And then, if you use
cinderblock or cement, you're talking high cost and a lot of skilled
labor.


It's very practical to use waist high beds and they are becoming
increasingly popular.

You don't mention where you live but you may be interested in seeing the
following:
http://www.knudsentanks.com.au/links.htm

I've seen these in use at a number of Open Gardens and been very impressed
with the way they grew vegetables and flowers and allowed very elderly
gardeners to continue to garden long after they had trouble bending down.
I've seem then with plastic over to make mini greenhouses and bird netting
over, and just left as beds. Very, very impressive and I want a number of
them but have only recently managed to find them.


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Old 04-11-2008, 02:51 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
Val Val is offline
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Posts: 296
Default How raised is raised


"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
news
We are ready to till up our garden, and want to raise it in beds or
platforms so us old people don't have to bend over so much. Is it
practical to raise them to desk level, or is just a foot or two
sufficient? I would think that whatever you made the raised bed from
would rot from water and gook within a few years. And then, if you use
cinderblock or cement, you're talking high cost and a lot of skilled
labor.

Help appreciated.

Steve

I belonged to a community group that spent two weekends a month building
raised beds for the elderly and disabled. I think you are wise to consider
raised beds now so you can continue gardening comfortably for many years to
come.

Instead of going into lengthy descriptions I will suggest an excellent book.
I'm sure your local library will have this as well as others or be able to
order them if you don't want to purchase. I'm using the link to Amazon since
they give pretty descriptions and reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Accessible-Gar.../dp/0811726525

At the bottom of that link are 'books you might also like'. You might want
to check those out as well.

One of the most popular heights for raised beds we built was 18" high. These
seemed to be easiest to garden while seated, depending on the size of the
person. A sturdy garden stool or laying a board between the bed edges to
form a bench is very comfortable way to garden. It was the most popular
design for our seniors and those with leg and back problems. Desk height
sounds good and logical but it won't take much for a plant to grow too tall
to be easily managed and standing for long periods can become very tiring in
some cases. We found two feet high turned out to be an awkward height for
most people. Too high to sit and too low for bending. You just think you
aren't bending but you are, causing even more back problems. That's why they
tell mothers to *not* change the baby on a bed. Bending over repetitively at
that angle is murder on the lower back. However the beds around the 2 foot
mark was best for those in wheelchairs. Make sure you don't make the beds so
wide you can't reach to tend them while sitting. And take into consideration
if your wife is shorter than you to build these to the comfort to the
smallest person. Tall people can always reach 'short', if one is small
and/or short and having to reach 'tall' it can be very uncomfortable and
frustrating. This is all in the book, you can customize depending on the
height and reach of you and your wife and the lay of the land. We built the
majority of the beds out of cinder block. They lasted indefinitely and the
edge could also be used to sit on. Sometimes a bit more expense initially
will save you dollars down the road, and you will have the pleasure of
gardening for years to come.

Val




































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Old 04-11-2008, 03:07 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
Val Val is offline
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Default How raised is raised


"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
I've seem then with plastic over to make mini greenhouses and bird netting
over, and just left as beds. Very, very impressive and I want a number of
them but have only recently managed to find them.


Those are pretty spiffy bins! I used 10ft lengths of PVC pipe bent to arch
over my raised beds. Think covered wagon. You can actually get clips that
will hold materials to the pipe from greenhouse supply places. I used
plastic early and late season, netting to keep the birds out of assorted
yummy fruits and Remy (sp) cloth to keep out the bad bugs on certain crops.
The plastic extended my growing season by at least two and in some cases
three months and the netting saved all the strawberries for human
consumption.

Val


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Old 04-11-2008, 03:53 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised

"Val" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message


I've seem then with plastic over to make mini greenhouses and bird
netting over, and just left as beds. Very, very impressive and I want a
number of them but have only recently managed to find them.


Those are pretty spiffy bins!


Aren't they just :-)) Very neat once in place and so light to bring into a
garden.

I used 10ft lengths of PVC pipe bent to arch
over my raised beds. Think covered wagon.


Thats the sort of arch I make for putting shade cloth or bird netting over
seedlings or fruit trees. I make arches out of 8 guage fencing wire for
small covers and star pickets (Y posts in US speak) and 2 inch poly pipe for
trees

You can actually get clips that
will hold materials to the pipe from greenhouse supply places.


I use old boards or bricks or just baling twine to keep mine in place.

I used
plastic early and late season, netting to keep the birds out of assorted
yummy fruits and Remy (sp) cloth to keep out the bad bugs on certain
crops.


I've used old net curtains when there has been a locust plague.

The plastic extended my growing season by at least two and in some cases
three months and the netting saved all the strawberries for human
consumption.


I have to keep Blue tongued lizards away from my strawbs - they eat them
whole otherwise. It's a wonder any of us get produce given all the wildlife
we ahve to keep from eating our crops.





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Old 04-11-2008, 04:28 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

It's a wonder any of us get produce given all the wildlife
we ahve to keep from eating our crops.


Why do you think so few crops in the stores are "organic"?
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:19 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised


"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message

We are ready to till up our garden, and want to raise it in beds or
platforms so us old people don't have to bend over so much. Is it
practical to raise them to desk level, or is just a foot or two
sufficient? I would think that whatever you made the raised bed from
would rot from water and gook within a few years. And then, if you use
cinderblock or cement, you're talking high cost and a lot of skilled
labor.


It's very practical to use waist high beds and they are becoming
increasingly popular.

You don't mention where you live but you may be interested in seeing the
following:
http://www.knudsentanks.com.au/links.htm

I've seen these in use at a number of Open Gardens and been very impressed
with the way they grew vegetables and flowers and allowed very elderly
gardeners to continue to garden long after they had trouble bending down.
I've seem then with plastic over to make mini greenhouses and bird netting
over, and just left as beds. Very, very impressive and I want a number of
them but have only recently managed to find them.


Dang, I would have never thought of that. I am sure I can get some locally
from ranchers, and perhaps get some plastic ones that are either damaged or
old. We have a local AM radio program called Tradio, and you can call in
for free.

Right now, I'm looking for an Aermotor windmill to power my backyard
waterfall collection.

Steve


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Old 04-11-2008, 05:21 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 104
Default How raised is raised




I used 10ft lengths of PVC pipe bent to arch
over my raised beds. Think covered wagon.


Thats the sort of arch I make for putting shade cloth or bird netting over
seedlings or fruit trees. I make arches out of 8 guage fencing wire for
small covers and star pickets (Y posts in US speak) and 2 inch poly pipe
for trees

You can actually get clips that
will hold materials to the pipe from greenhouse supply places.


I use old boards or bricks or just baling twine to keep mine in place.

I used
plastic early and late season, netting to keep the birds out of assorted
yummy fruits and Remy (sp) cloth to keep out the bad bugs on certain
crops.


I've used old net curtains when there has been a locust plague.

The plastic extended my growing season by at least two and in some cases
three months and the netting saved all the strawberries for human
consumption.


I have to keep Blue tongued lizards away from my strawbs - they eat them
whole otherwise. It's a wonder any of us get produce given all the
wildlife we ahve to keep from eating our crops.


I have a Singer walking foot industrial sewing machine, and I'll be using it
this year to make some shadecloth covers for parts of the garden as well as
decorative canvas awnings.

Steve


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Old 04-11-2008, 05:23 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised


"Val" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
news
We are ready to till up our garden, and want to raise it in beds or
platforms so us old people don't have to bend over so much. Is it
practical to raise them to desk level, or is just a foot or two
sufficient? I would think that whatever you made the raised bed from
would rot from water and gook within a few years. And then, if you use
cinderblock or cement, you're talking high cost and a lot of skilled
labor.

Help appreciated.

Steve

I belonged to a community group that spent two weekends a month building
raised beds for the elderly and disabled. I think you are wise to consider
raised beds now so you can continue gardening comfortably for many years
to come.

Instead of going into lengthy descriptions I will suggest an excellent
book. I'm sure your local library will have this as well as others or be
able to order them if you don't want to purchase. I'm using the link to
Amazon since they give pretty descriptions and reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Accessible-Gar.../dp/0811726525

At the bottom of that link are 'books you might also like'. You might want
to check those out as well.

One of the most popular heights for raised beds we built was 18" high.
These seemed to be easiest to garden while seated, depending on the size
of the person. A sturdy garden stool or laying a board between the bed
edges to form a bench is very comfortable way to garden. It was the most
popular design for our seniors and those with leg and back problems. Desk
height sounds good and logical but it won't take much for a plant to grow
too tall to be easily managed and standing for long periods can become
very tiring in some cases. We found two feet high turned out to be an
awkward height for most people. Too high to sit and too low for bending.
You just think you aren't bending but you are, causing even more back
problems. That's why they tell mothers to *not* change the baby on a bed.
Bending over repetitively at that angle is murder on the lower back.
However the beds around the 2 foot mark was best for those in wheelchairs.
Make sure you don't make the beds so wide you can't reach to tend them
while sitting. And take into consideration if your wife is shorter than
you to build these to the comfort to the smallest person. Tall people can
always reach 'short', if one is small and/or short and having to reach
'tall' it can be very uncomfortable and frustrating. This is all in the
book, you can customize depending on the height and reach of you and your
wife and the lay of the land. We built the majority of the beds out of
cinder block. They lasted indefinitely and the edge could also be used to
sit on. Sometimes a bit more expense initially will save you dollars down
the road, and you will have the pleasure of gardening for years to come.

Val


I got an L1 crush fracture July 4th when my ATV rolled on me. A month
later, I tore a rib loose. I'm going to be doing some gardening basically
standing up from now on. Will get the local strong teens and some church
people to help me build these.

Steve


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Old 04-11-2008, 03:38 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible
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Default How raised is raised

Omelet wrote:

I've also built two raised beds with unmortared cinderblock 3 bricks
high, and that hardly takes skilled labor. ;-) �I like them



You live where the ground doesn't freeze.
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