Gardengal
 

Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal. It was with the facts.
Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".

Sincerely,
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

Gardengal
 

In article
,
Billy wrote:

Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal. It was with the facts.
Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".

Sincerely,

Well Spoken !

Bill who has read many books and retains perhaps 5 %. Of this 5 %
there are many differences and the water gets muddy often a fancy way of
saying confusion . Still I think of the idea that amongst the muddy
water try to remember the purity of the lotus .

http://www.writespirit.net/blog/images/bali-lotus.jpg

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)

Gardengal
 

On Apr 7, 11:00*am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".

I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.

However, I do accept your apology....or whatever it is. It's the first
semi-gracious thing I've seen you write,ses

Gardengal
 

Self esteem: check Ego: check. Hubris: check

Looks like she's good to go.

So tranquility returns to the little band of intrepid gardeners. See
them racking the ground smooth. Others are laying out the seed beds,
while others wrap tape around their rolls of dimes.

In article
,
gardengal wrote:

On Apr 7, 11:00*am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".

I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.

However, I do accept your apology....or whatever it is. It's the first
semi-gracious thing I've seen you write,ses
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

Gardengal
 

In article
,
gardengal wrote:

On Apr 7, 11:00*am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".

I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.

Excellent, please stay. One does need mental callouses here and in life
general. Take and give what you want and ignore the rest. If some one
hands out a personal attack - just smile and move on. I, like many
others here have enjoyed a good slam at others also. Smile and Enjoy
Life. I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university
degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

Gardengal
 

With our heavy freeze warning for tonight, people in this area better be
covering up any plants they have out.
"Billy" wrote in message
...
Self esteem: check Ego: check. Hubris: check

Looks like she's good to go.

So tranquility returns to the little band of intrepid gardeners. See
them racking the ground smooth. Others are laying out the seed beds,
while others wrap tape around their rolls of dimes.

In article
,
gardengal wrote:

On Apr 7, 11:00 am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the
"wrecked
gardens".

I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.

However, I do accept your apology....or whatever it is. It's the first
semi-gracious thing I've seen you write,ses
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

Gardengal
 

Dan L. wrote:
In article
,
gardengal wrote:

On Apr 7, 11:00?am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".
I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.

Excellent, please stay. One does need mental callouses here and in life
general. Take and give what you want and ignore the rest. If some one
hands out a personal attack - just smile and move on. I, like many
others here have enjoyed a good slam at others also. Smile and Enjoy
Life. I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university
degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


Dan,

While I agree with you that there are still some very knowledgeable
people that post, there are MANY of us that post a lot less (or not at
all) because of all the "noise" here. Not only is all the off topic
stuff distracting the name calling (and worse) is good reason to abandon
these newsgroups. There are many moderated garden boards where the
people are civil (or else) and that is where a lot of us have gone.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

"You are never to old to play in the dirt"

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Gardengal
 

In article ,
Gary Woods wrote:

Charlie wrote:

What about us pig-ignernt autodidacts? Are we useful too??

At least those of us who repeatedly made the "Dean's Other List"
Jimmy has two lists?
probably
have a good dose of common sense.
Which, apologies to Gallagher, isn't all that common.
Uh, you apologized to the wrong guy.
To quote Fr Jim Tucker, "All of this should go without saying, but
common sense is surprisingly uncommon."

According to our oft absent, acerbic, taskmaster, Bill R., most of this
should go without saying. His vision of rec.gardens appears to be on of
terse questions and responses, both of which should be brief and to the
point, lacking any sign of humanity or individuality. Some of us prefer
"wrecked gardens" because it feels less "buttoned down" and more human.

I'm not knocking Bill R. for his attitude. In truth, he posts extraneous
material ("Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL"), he shows individuality,
("You are never to old to play in the dirt"), and posts on how the way
things should be (see his post above).

I'm not sure what "noise" Bill R. would be referring to, but by any
measure, the preponderance of what gets posted here has to do with the
hows and the whys of gardening, and the social forces affecting
gardening, whether it be dumb Ag policies, or companies like Monsanto
trying to create a monopoly on seeds, to the detriment of gardeners and
farmers alike, or companies like ConAgra encouraging and facilitating
the consumption of nutrient deficient, processed foods, or the dangers
of ingesting produce imbued with herbicide/pesticide residues, or health
concerns about exotic proteins from GMO crops. It seems, to me, those
subjects should all be fair game for a gardening forum.

Then their are the unfortunate ones like keelematt who comes along like
so many before, apparently oblivious to the reasons behind the organic
movement, saying, in effect, that they have poured gallon$ of
herbicide$/in$ecticide$ on a problem, but the problem persists, and
should they pour more? Having civilly answered this question ad nauseam
times before, I would beg some understanding for those of us who try to
get the posters attention, and the attention of others who are tempted
to post similar questions, by hitting them over the head with a
(figuratively) 2" X 4". Poisoning the planet is a bad idea. Why don't
people see that?

Charlie has posted on soil amendments like special clays, charcoal,
pointed out the dubious wisdom of spreading toxic, mine tailings on
lawns and gardens, shared his experience with different garden
cultivars, and noted the effect on the quality and cost of produce
because of government policies.

Bill W. brings an understated sensibility of gardening to the groups, as
well as some culture, inspired by what we like, so much, to do. Often,
he is first with a site, which will resolve a poster's problem.

Maddie finds ways of inspiring some of the most slothful of us with her
reflections on gardening, and time, and place. (Thanks Maddie, I'll be
out this week end checking the prices on "Easter Lilies")

Jangchub, for all her drama, responds with advice on a myriad of
subjects and even shares from from her labors.

Hopefully, brooklin1, will dial back his abrasiveness to more
conventional invectives and venues, because he also has much to offer.

Although, I presume, the above are the malefactors of your ire, Bill R.
don't forget the majority of irreplaceable and helpful people here
like:
Bungadora
Cheryl Isaak
Chookie
David E. Ross
David Hare-Scott
Emilie
Enigma
FarmI
Glenna Rose
Ingrid
Jan Flora
Kay Lancaster
Lilah Morgan
Omelet
Pat in Plymouth
Susan N, The Cook
Val

Apologies to those not mentioned, it's a big team. To paraphrase
Shakespear,"All the world is a garden, and in our time, we all get to
play many parts."

So, "wrecked gardeners" get out your shovels and rakes. Tape up those
rolls of dimes, it's time to rum . . . uh, garden ;O)


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

Gardengal
 

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:24:36 -0400, "Dan L."
wrote:

I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university
degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.


Meaning???

What about us pig-ignernt autodidacts? Are we useful too??

Ain't it a funny thing..... and 'twas ever thus.

Sniff, sniff.....

Charlie

Well Charley, your knowledge of gardening is greater than mine.
The University of Self Taught is also of great importance.
My degree is in Computer Science, not Horticulture. I am just finishing
the educational part of the MSU Master Gardener Volunteers program.
I depend on this newsgroup for knowledge and my entertainment :)

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

Gardengal
 

Billy wrote:

So, "wrecked gardeners" get out your shovels and rakes. Tape up those
rolls of dimes, it's time to rum . . . uh, garden ;O)

As for the deer, more serious weaponry may be allowed? I'm making major
height improvements to my electric fence this spring, as well as a more
serious campaign of baiting it with bits of aluminum foil coated with
peanut butter for aversion training. Maybe I'll get more than two heads of
radicchio for Dear Lady to put in her excellent salads.

As for who first noted the rarity of common sense, it's probably like
*Hanlon/Heinlein's law, evident enough to have been commented on by various
folk.

I don't find the noise level objectionable; certainly less than the average
pub approaching closing time, if memory serves. And I do observe that in
many conversations the really good stuff is in the digressions.

Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at
home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

*"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."

Gardengal
 

In article ,
Gary Woods wrote:

Billy wrote:

So, "wrecked gardeners" get out your shovels and rakes. Tape up those
rolls of dimes, it's time to rum . . . uh, garden ;O)

As for the deer, more serious weaponry may be allowed? I'm making major
height improvements to my electric fence this spring, as well as a more
serious campaign of baiting it with bits of aluminum foil coated with
peanut butter for aversion training. Maybe I'll get more than two heads of
radicchio for Dear Lady to put in her excellent salads.

Have you tried hanging bars of "irish spring" bar soap from your fence?
I have read that this may work in keeping deer away. The soap smells
like humans. Deer here can jump a six foot fence with ease, electric or
not.

Thanks for the idea of planting radicchio as deer bait. My apple and
pear trees are taking too long to grow by the deer blind. Will radicchio
last through November ... hmmmm.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

Gardengal
 

Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:06:26 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

Dan L. wrote:
In article
,
gardengal wrote:

On Apr 7, 11:00?am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".
I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.
Excellent, please stay. One does need mental callouses here and in life
general. Take and give what you want and ignore the rest. If some one
hands out a personal attack - just smile and move on. I, like many
others here have enjoyed a good slam at others also. Smile and Enjoy
Life. I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university
degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

Dan,

While I agree with you that there are still some very knowledgeable
people that post, there are MANY of us that post a lot less (or not at
all) because of all the "noise" here. Not only is all the off topic
stuff distracting the name calling (and worse) is good reason to abandon
these newsgroups. There are many moderated garden boards where the
people are civil (or else) and that is where a lot of us have gone.

God, I'll bet you're a barrel of fun to spend a day with, Bill,
working in the garden.

Charlie

Charlie,

That is why I don't care for your posts. You don't know me from Adam
yet you are *so* judgmental about all my posts. As far as I'm concerned
you can ruin this newsgroup all you want with your WAY off topic posts
and your very strange politics. I'll take my gardening knowledge elsewhere.

You (and a few others) have managed to chase a lot of longtime posters
away and that is a shame but not the end of the world. There are many
garden boards that are still very useful and the *best* thing is that
they only allow GARDENING post (*NO* politics). This group was going
long before you started dragging it down and will go on long after you
(and I) are gone. It is just ashame that it has come to this.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

"You are never to old to play in the dirt"

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Gardengal
 

Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:53:40 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:06:26 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

Dan L. wrote:
In article
,
gardengal wrote:

On Apr 7, 11:00?am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".
I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.
Excellent, please stay. One does need mental callouses here and in life
general. Take and give what you want and ignore the rest. If some one
hands out a personal attack - just smile and move on. I, like many
others here have enjoyed a good slam at others also. Smile and Enjoy
Life. I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university
degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

Dan,

While I agree with you that there are still some very knowledgeable
people that post, there are MANY of us that post a lot less (or not at
all) because of all the "noise" here. Not only is all the off topic
stuff distracting the name calling (and worse) is good reason to abandon
these newsgroups. There are many moderated garden boards where the
people are civil (or else) and that is where a lot of us have gone.
God, I'll bet you're a barrel of fun to spend a day with, Bill,
working in the garden.

Charlie
Charlie,

That is why I don't care for your posts. You don't know me from Adam
yet you are *so* judgmental about all my posts. As far as I'm concerned
you can ruin this newsgroup all you want with your WAY off topic posts
and your very strange politics. I'll take my gardening knowledge elsewhere.

You call it judment, I call it discernment.

What politics are strange? Those that differ from yours? Why don't
you take exception to each and every OT post that shows here that goes
against your system of thought?

I could not care less if you take your ideas and advocacy concerning
the continuation of the poisoning of my planet elsewhere. People need
to stand up against planet-rapers.

You (and a few others) have managed to chase a lot of longtime posters
away and that is a shame but not the end of the world.

And your, and others, advocacy of the chemical solution may have
accomplished the same thing with new lurkers and posters. It may have
started the slow poisoning of a child......the chemical solution *is*
the end of the world.

There are many
garden boards that are still very useful and the *best* thing is that
they only allow GARDENING post (*NO* politics). This group was going
long before you started dragging it down and will go on long after you
(and I) are gone. It is just ashame that it has come to this.

Diversity is a wonderful thing, and has kept this here old world
choogling along for a loooonnng time. The destruction of diversity,
in ideas, in society.... and *in the garden* is an evil thing, my
friend.


I should not bother to even reply to you but you do need to know one
fact. I, myself, am an organic gardener and ONE TIME I suggested the
use of fertilizer and since then you been on my case (so much for your
"so called" discernment). And, in my area (farm country), fertilizer is
used by EVERY farmer I know. You can complain about that all you want
and "go off the deep end" and say that farmers are destroying your
world. I know for a fact that my grandkids are much healthier BECAUSE
of farmers use of fertilizers and the better crops that they produce.
You may think that you are "saving the planet" but you are only fooling
yourself.

Don't bother to reply. I know I can't change your mind and you won't
change mine so don't waste your words on me.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

"You are never to old to play in the dirt"

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Gardengal
 

Bill R wrote:

I know for a fact that my grandkids are much healthier BECAUSE
of farmers use of fertilizers and the better crops that they produce.

Some might dispute that. I'd rather get worked up over mega corporations
bent on dominating the world's seed, and therefore food, supply.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

Gardengal
 

In article ,
Gary Woods wrote:

Bill R wrote:

I know for a fact that my grandkids are much healthier BECAUSE
of farmers use of fertilizers and the better crops that they produce.

Some might dispute that. I'd rather get worked up over mega corporations
bent on dominating the world's seed, and therefore food, supply.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

They are essentially the same people. Chemferts kill the soil organisms
which leads to loss of top soil. Chemferts (nitrates) have infiltrated
the aquifers of the midwest and are poisonous to children. Chemfert
run-off pollutes our water ways and creates a 22126 square kilometre
(8543 mi?) region in the Gulf of Mexico called a dead zone around the
mouth of the Mississippi River.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...31/ST200807310
0349.html
Chemferts encourage huge monoculture planting of GM corn, GM soybean, GM
cotton in the same place, over and over, allowing organisms that attack
them to build-up in the soil, requiring more and more pesticides.
This is encouraged by Monsanto, that sells the seeds, and companies like
Cargill who process and fractionate the crops, and companies like
Phillip Morris (now Altria Group) who sell the cheap, nutrient deficient
food to the American public.

It's all cut from the same cloth Dan.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html