In the UK an allotment is a parel of land rented, usually from local
government, (the council) usually by an individual. I have my plot of land.
In the UK the local authority is obliged in law by a number of 'enclosure
acts' to provide such land as may be neccessary in a particular area. This
is because of riots after the landed gentry enclosed the common land and
made it their own in the 1800's. Leaving poor people nowhere to graze their
animals or grow food for the table.

Allotments are usually collected together in a site managed by a committee,
and in any site there may be a handful of allotments or dozens. On my site
there are about 150 plots. each managed by an individual, or family or group
of friends. I have my own plot, with my own shed, as does the man next to me
and the couple next to him and the couple over the road. It is not the same
thing as a community garden. I farm my own plot as do the other allotment
holders on the site.

Go here to see the site that I have a plot on:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&...03433&t=h&z=18

BTW I don't lock my shed, I just leave sharp and dangerous hazards and
manure lying around so that any thieving scrote or other class traitor will
hopefully injure themselves and catch something dreadful.

Baldymoon


I don't want to arrive at my grave in an attractive and well preserved body,
hopefully I will be skidding in
sideways, Gin and Tonic in one hand -- Cigar in the other screaming YAHAAAY!


"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"shazzbat" wrote in message
...

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
et...
On 14/04/09 17:41, Bob Hobden wrote:
"Ed" wrote ...
Got my new shed now on the allotment and

Meant to ask, what's an "allotment"?

Assuming you're in the U.S, you would probably call it a community
garden.

Steve

Thanks. Then I would definitely lock my shed.

In article ,
"Hamer Family" wrote:

In the UK an allotment is a parel of land rented, usually from local
government, (the council) usually by an individual. I have my plot of land.
In the UK the local authority is obliged in law by a number of 'enclosure
acts' to provide such land as may be neccessary in a particular area. This
is because of riots after the landed gentry enclosed the common land and
made it their own in the 1800's. Leaving poor people nowhere to graze their
animals or grow food for the table.

A dark day with the loss of the commons. A model that many counties
seem to mimic. (

Bill where is Chief Seattle ?

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)

"Hamer Family" wrote in message
...
In the UK an allotment is a parel of land rented, usually from local
government, (the council) usually by an individual. I have my plot of
land. In the UK the local authority is obliged in law by a number of
'enclosure acts' to provide such land as may be neccessary in a particular
area. This is because of riots after the landed gentry enclosed the common
land and made it their own in the 1800's. Leaving poor people nowhere to
graze their animals or grow food for the table.

Allotments are usually collected together in a site managed by a
committee, and in any site there may be a handful of allotments or dozens.
On my site there are about 150 plots. each managed by an individual, or
family or group of friends. I have my own plot, with my own shed, as does
the man next to me and the couple next to him and the couple over the
road. It is not the same thing as a community garden. I farm my own plot
as do the other allotment holders on the site.

Go here to see the site that I have a plot on:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&...03433&t=h&z=18

BTW I don't lock my shed, I just leave sharp and dangerous hazards and
manure lying around so that any thieving scrote or other class traitor
will hopefully injure themselves and catch something dreadful.

Baldymoon


What size are these allotment plots, are they all the same size? How much
is the rent? Can one actually grow enough useable crops on these plots to
make it worthwhile to cover the rent and ones time, labors, and incidental
expenses... or is this more a fun hobby for most? Does the government
supply water? I suppose the government is the landlord?, for what purpose
is the rent monies used?

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:59:51 -0400, Bill
wrote:

In article ,
"Hamer Family" wrote:

In the UK an allotment is a parel of land rented, usually from local
government, (the council) usually by an individual. I have my plot of
land.
In the UK the local authority is obliged in law by a number of 'enclosure
acts' to provide such land as may be neccessary in a particular area. This
is because of riots after the landed gentry enclosed the common land and
made it their own in the 1800's. Leaving poor people nowhere to graze
their
animals or grow food for the table.

A dark day with the loss of the commons. A model that many counties
seem to mimic. (

Bill where is Chief Seattle ?


http://onthecommons.org/

Charlie

"If the Internet teaches us anything, it is that great value comes
from leaving core resources in a commons, where they're free for
people to build upon as they see fit." -- Lawrence Lessig

Thanks once again Charlie for the site and the Lessig quote.

Bill out feeding hummers now

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"Hamer Family" wrote in message
...
In the UK an allotment is a parel of land rented, usually from local
government, (the council) usually by an individual. I have my plot of
land. In the UK the local authority is obliged in law by a number of
'enclosure acts' to provide such land as may be neccessary in a
particular area. This is because of riots after the landed gentry
enclosed the common land and made it their own in the 1800's. Leaving
poor people nowhere to graze their animals or grow food for the table.

Allotments are usually collected together in a site managed by a
committee, and in any site there may be a handful of allotments or
dozens. On my site there are about 150 plots. each managed by an
individual, or family or group of friends. I have my own plot, with my
own shed, as does the man next to me and the couple next to him and the
couple over the road. It is not the same thing as a community garden. I
farm my own plot as do the other allotment holders on the site.

Go here to see the site that I have a plot on:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&...03433&t=h&z=18

BTW I don't lock my shed, I just leave sharp and dangerous hazards and
manure lying around so that any thieving scrote or other class traitor
will hopefully injure themselves and catch something dreadful.

Baldymoon


What size are these allotment plots, are they all the same size? How much
is the rent? Can one actually grow enough useable crops on these plots to
make it worthwhile to cover the rent and ones time, labors, and incidental
expenses... or is this more a fun hobby for most? Does the government
supply water? I suppose the government is the landlord?, for what purpose
is the rent monies used?



Allotment sizes vary enormously, as do charges and almost every other facet
of allotments. At our site, there is a system I haven't heard of anywhere
else, in that the price applying when you get your plot is set for as long
as you have it. People who have had theirs longer than us are paying £12 or
£15 per year. We pay £20. People who took theirs on after us are paying
various amounts up to £50. Many sites are council property, but ours is
property of a local landowner and has been allotments since 1917. The site
is administered (very loosely) by a local estate agent (realtor) who also
handle the other business of the landowner.

The rules about what you can and cannot do or grow vary from site to site.
We for instance are not allowed to keep any livestock on the plots, but some
places do allow chickens etc. Our site has no water provided, so we catch
what we can from the roofs of the shed and greenhouse. As to value, I
believe it is enormously worthwhile. We buy nothing but seeds, seed potatoes
etc for ours, various plants have come from friends etc. when a small punnet
of soft fruit can cost £3.99 at the supermarket, and we can pick a washing
up bowl full of blackberries, you bet your life it's worth it. We also grow
rhubarb, raspberries, strawberries, blackberries, tomatoes,golden
raspberries, gooseberries, and we have an apple tree, a plum tree, and a
cherry tree. And that's before any veg.

But for many people the true value of an allotment is in the side benefits,
ie fresh air, exercise, free or at least cheap food, improved diet, new
friends, the knowledge that what you're eating has been grown by yourselves,
and grown organically/ethically etc according to ones own convictions. And
for many of us, the chance to make things out of junk and scrounge things
out of skips etc.

Steve

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:47:16 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:

What size are these allotment plots, are they all the same size?

10 rods is a standard plot but 5 rod plots can be available.

A rod (or pole or perch) is 5.5 yards. Square it for area so a Rod (area)
is 30.25 sq yards. 10 rods (area) is 300 sq yards, 250 sq metres. You get
16 plots to the acre.

How much is the rent?

Varies. A few tens of pounds per year is normal.

Can one actually grow enough useable crops on these plots to make it
worthwhile to cover the rent and ones time, labors, and incidental
expenses...

You can probably grow more than enough to cover the rent and costs. But
highly unlikely to cover your time even at minimum wage rates of £5.73/hr.

Does the government supply water?

Normally cost is included in the rent.

I suppose the government is the landlord?,

Not central government. The local district council is usually the
landlord.

for what purpose is the rent monies used?

The Landlord has some costs, water supply for instance and upkeep of
communal features such as boundary fencing etc. The income from the rent
is not a great deal of money.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"shazzbat" wrote in message
...

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"Hamer Family" wrote in message
...
In the UK an allotment is a parel of land rented, usually from local
government, (the council) usually by an individual. I have my plot of
land. In the UK the local authority is obliged in law by a number of
'enclosure acts' to provide such land as may be neccessary in a
particular area. This is because of riots after the landed gentry
enclosed the common land and made it their own in the 1800's. Leaving
poor people nowhere to graze their animals or grow food for the table.

Allotments are usually collected together in a site managed by a
committee, and in any site there may be a handful of allotments or
dozens. On my site there are about 150 plots. each managed by an
individual, or family or group of friends. I have my own plot, with my
own shed, as does the man next to me and the couple next to him and the
couple over the road. It is not the same thing as a community garden. I
farm my own plot as do the other allotment holders on the site.

Go here to see the site that I have a plot on:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&...03433&t=h&z=18

BTW I don't lock my shed, I just leave sharp and dangerous hazards and
manure lying around so that any thieving scrote or other class traitor
will hopefully injure themselves and catch something dreadful.

Baldymoon


What size are these allotment plots, are they all the same size? How
much is the rent? Can one actually grow enough useable crops on these
plots to make it worthwhile to cover the rent and ones time, labors, and
incidental expenses... or is this more a fun hobby for most? Does the
government supply water? I suppose the government is the landlord?, for
what purpose is the rent monies used?



Allotment sizes vary enormously, as do charges and almost every other
facet of allotments. At our site, there is a system I haven't heard of
anywhere else, in that the price applying when you get your plot is set
for as long as you have it. People who have had theirs longer than us are
paying £12 or £15 per year. We pay £20. People who took theirs on after us
are paying various amounts up to £50. Many sites are council property, but
ours is property of a local landowner and has been allotments since 1917.
The site is administered (very loosely) by a local estate agent (realtor)
who also handle the other business of the landowner.

The rules about what you can and cannot do or grow vary from site to site.
We for instance are not allowed to keep any livestock on the plots, but
some places do allow chickens etc. Our site has no water provided, so we
catch what we can from the roofs of the shed and greenhouse. As to value,
I believe it is enormously worthwhile. We buy nothing but seeds, seed
potatoes etc for ours, various plants have come from friends etc. when a
small punnet of soft fruit can cost £3.99 at the supermarket, and we can
pick a washing up bowl full of blackberries, you bet your life it's worth
it. We also grow rhubarb, raspberries, strawberries, blackberries,
tomatoes,golden raspberries, gooseberries, and we have an apple tree, a
plum tree, and a cherry tree. And that's before any veg.

But for many people the true value of an allotment is in the side
benefits, ie fresh air, exercise, free or at least cheap food, improved
diet, new friends, the knowledge that what you're eating has been grown by
yourselves, and grown organically/ethically etc according to ones own
convictions. And for many of us, the chance to make things out of junk and
scrounge things out of skips etc.

Steve

I find this facinating, an entirely different system from what I've
previously known for community gardening. And each reply generates more
questions. Approximately how large are these plots, I realize they're all
differeent but like in what range; 2,500 sq ft, 10,000 sq ft, 20,000 sq
ft... what area is yours? I'm thinking that if you can grow so much
variety, even have fruit trees, then you must have at least an 1/8 - 1/4
acre. For the few dollars a year it seems like a steal, doesn't pay to own
your own piece of farm land, I guess. What do you do if it doesn't rain for
a while, can you haul water by wagon? How far away do you live from your
plot?

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:47:16 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:

What size are these allotment plots, are they all the same size?

10 rods is a standard plot but 5 rod plots can be available.

A rod (or pole or perch) is 5.5 yards. Square it for area so a Rod (area)
is 30.25 sq yards. 10 rods (area) is 300 sq yards, 250 sq metres. You get
16 plots to the acre.

How much is the rent?

Varies. A few tens of pounds per year is normal.

Can one actually grow enough useable crops on these plots to make it
worthwhile to cover the rent and ones time, labors, and incidental
expenses...

You can probably grow more than enough to cover the rent and costs. But
highly unlikely to cover your time even at minimum wage rates of £5.73/hr.

Does the government supply water?

Normally cost is included in the rent.

I suppose the government is the landlord?,

Not central government. The local district council is usually the
landlord.

for what purpose is the rent monies used?

The Landlord has some costs, water supply for instance and upkeep of
communal features such as boundary fencing etc. The income from the rent
is not a great deal of money.

All very interesting. So a 10 rod plot is about the same as my 2,500 sq ft
vegetable garden, that's more than enough to supply a typical family. And a
nice feature is that you have lots of folks to swap crops with so you can
all increase your variety. Thank you for the info.

SNIP


I find this facinating, an entirely different system from what I've
previously known for community gardening. And each reply generates more
questions. Approximately how large are these plots, I realize they're all
differeent but like in what range; 2,500 sq ft, 10,000 sq ft, 20,000 sq
ft... what area is yours? I'm thinking that if you can grow so much
variety, even have fruit trees, then you must have at least an 1/8 - 1/4
acre. For the few dollars a year it seems like a steal, doesn't pay to
own your own piece of farm land, I guess. What do you do if it doesn't
rain for a while, can you haul water by wagon? How far away do you live
from your plot?


The plots on our site vary in size as the site is irregularly shaped. Mine
is quoted as 0.11 acre, or roughly 4800 sq ft. Or even 445 sq metres if you
like. If you put your google earth pointer at 50.47.09.37"N, 01.54.20.23"W,
that is smack in the middle of my plot. Above and right are my potato rows,
and you could be forgiven for thinking I was drunk when I marked out the
path. I wasn't, I don't know what happened there, it has been rectified
since that pic was taken, which was 2007.

Rain hasn't been a problem for the past couple of years, we have had very
wet summers. In dry summers we do take water to the allotment, also we use
various means to save water. We now have 7 tanks of water fed from various
guttering. In UK there is currently a lot of work going on to convert houses
from old-fashioned boilers to the new condensing type. This, depending on
the exact system being used, liberates the big water tank from the loft,
which I then scrounge from the plumbers, or out of the skip.

Here -
http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t...water%20stuff/

You can see some of the stuff we've done. The black snaky thing is a
perforated pipe which I bury with the seed potatoes so I can pour water in
the end of it to water straight to the roots.
And to answer your last question, we live 2.2 miles from the plot, although
I know many people travel much further. I have heard tell of 30 miles, but
that would be extreme, IMHO.

Steve

"shazzbat" wrote in message
...

SNIP


I find this facinating, an entirely different system from what I've
previously known for community gardening. And each reply generates more
questions. Approximately how large are these plots, I realize they're
all
differeent but like in what range; 2,500 sq ft, 10,000 sq ft, 20,000 sq
ft... what area is yours? I'm thinking that if you can grow so much
variety, even have fruit trees, then you must have at least an 1/8 - 1/4
acre. For the few dollars a year it seems like a steal, doesn't pay to
own your own piece of farm land, I guess. What do you do if it doesn't
rain for a while, can you haul water by wagon? How far away do you live
from your plot?


The plots on our site vary in size as the site is irregularly shaped. Mine
is quoted as 0.11 acre, or roughly 4800 sq ft. Or even 445 sq metres if
you
like. If you put your google earth pointer at 50.47.09.37"N,
01.54.20.23"W,
that is smack in the middle of my plot. Above and right are my potato
rows,
and you could be forgiven for thinking I was drunk when I marked out the
path. I wasn't, I don't know what happened there, it has been rectified
since that pic was taken, which was 2007.

Rain hasn't been a problem for the past couple of years, we have had very
wet summers. In dry summers we do take water to the allotment, also we use
various means to save water. We now have 7 tanks of water fed from various
guttering. In UK there is currently a lot of work going on to convert
houses from old-fashioned boilers to the new condensing type. This,
depending on the exact system being used, liberates the big water tank
from the loft, which I then scrounge from the plumbers, or out of the
skip.

Here -
http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t...water%20stuff/

You can see some of the stuff we've done. The black snaky thing is a
perforated pipe which I bury with the seed potatoes so I can pour water in
the end of it to water straight to the roots.
And to answer your last question, we live 2.2 miles from the plot,
although I know many people travel much further. I have heard tell of 30
miles, but that would be extreme, IMHO.

Steve

Thank you for the info, and especially the pictures. Nearly 5,000 sq ft of
garden is enough to feed a family and to keep a small roadside farm stand
stocked. I appreciate all your ingenuity and efforts for accumlating rain
water, however it's unfortunate that there's not tap water available.