"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

In my case, I feel that proper usage of these chemicals will have a
negligible effect on the environment. Automobiles, planes, power
plants, etc. far out shadow anything I do in my backyard. If you have
never tasted a quality apple from the tree, you probably don't know
what you are missing.

If you are implying that unless sprays are used it is not possible to
harvest quality apples then you are wrong.

Our apples were superb this year and not one drop of spray was used and we
harvested from 4 apple trees. Our other apple trees are still too small to
be producing yet.

FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

In my case, I feel that proper usage of these chemicals will have a
negligible effect on the environment. Automobiles, planes, power
plants, etc. far out shadow anything I do in my backyard. If you have
never tasted a quality apple from the tree, you probably don't know
what you are missing.

If you are implying that unless sprays are used it is not possible to
harvest quality apples then you are wrong.

Our apples were superb this year and not one drop of spray was used and we
harvested from 4 apple trees. Our other apple trees are still too small to
be producing yet.



Can you define quality? Red Delicious can be clean, shinny, and red,
but is the last apple I would buy or grow. You don't mention which
varieties you are growing. You also don't mention where you live.
This can make a difference. This discussion started with Heirloom
Apples, most of which need spraying to keep them clean.

Sherwin

In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

In my case, I feel that proper usage of these chemicals will have a
negligible effect on the environment. Automobiles, planes, power
plants, etc. far out shadow anything I do in my backyard. If you have
never tasted a quality apple from the tree, you probably don't know
what you are missing.

If you are implying that unless sprays are used it is not possible to
harvest quality apples then you are wrong.

Our apples were superb this year and not one drop of spray was used and we
harvested from 4 apple trees. Our other apple trees are still too small to
be producing yet.



Can you define quality?
We used to have another poster who liked to define words.
Can you define symplastless?
Red Delicious can be clean, shinny, and red,
but is the last apple I would buy or grow.
And this adds to the dialog, how? Nothing was said about Red Delicious
apples.
You don't mention which
varieties you are growing.
Ibid
You also don't mention where you live. This can make a difference.
Speaks volumes to you powers of observation, Doo. Fran has been posting
here for years and anyone with a pulse knows she is from Australia.
This discussion started with Heirloom
Apples, most of which need spraying to keep them clean.
Brilliant, spray pollution on your apples to keep them clean. And you
know it's true because you can trust Mon$anto to protect your health and
the environment. Right, Doo?

http://www.naturalnews.com/023254.html
Mon$anto: History of Contamination and Cover-up

Sherwin
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

"sherwin dubren" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

In my case, I feel that proper usage of these chemicals will have a
negligible effect on the environment. Automobiles, planes, power
plants, etc. far out shadow anything I do in my backyard. If you have
never tasted a quality apple from the tree, you probably don't know
what you are missing.

If you are implying that unless sprays are used it is not possible to
harvest quality apples then you are wrong.

Our apples were superb this year and not one drop of spray was used and
we harvested from 4 apple trees. Our other apple trees are still too
small to be producing yet.

Can you define quality?

Looks good, has superb flavour, keeps well and keeps a great flavour right
through to the final apple.

Red Delicious can be clean, shinny, and red,
but is the last apple I would buy or grow.

That is a personal preference.

I'm sure some people love Red Delicious so that apple would fit their
criteria of being a good apple. I don't like Red Delicious either, but then
I've only ever eaten commercially produced ones. Home grown ones may be
very different.

You don't mention which varieties you are growing. You also don't mention
where you live.
This can make a difference. This discussion started with Heirloom
Apples, most of which need spraying to keep them clean.

Beauty of Bath, Lord Lambourne, Cox's Orange Pippin, Worchester Pearmain,
Laxton Superb, Bramley Seedling, Fuji, Red Gauntlet.

I live in Australia.

If you anything about apples, then you should recognise that the list I gave
of what we have is chock full of heritage/heirloom apples.

And certainly location MAY indeed be a factor is growing apples that you
call "clean". But that is not what you originally wrote. I grow apples
that are not sprayed at all, ever.

It is possible to grow good apples without spraying.

FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

In my case, I feel that proper usage of these chemicals will have a
negligible effect on the environment. Automobiles, planes, power
plants, etc. far out shadow anything I do in my backyard. If you have
never tasted a quality apple from the tree, you probably don't know
what you are missing.
If you are implying that unless sprays are used it is not possible to
harvest quality apples then you are wrong.

Our apples were superb this year and not one drop of spray was used and
we harvested from 4 apple trees. Our other apple trees are still too
small to be producing yet.

Can you define quality?

Looks good, has superb flavour, keeps well and keeps a great flavour right
through to the final apple.

Red Delicious can be clean, shinny, and red,
but is the last apple I would buy or grow.

That is a personal preference.

I'm sure some people love Red Delicious so that apple would fit their
criteria of being a good apple. I don't like Red Delicious either, but then
I've only ever eaten commercially produced ones. Home grown ones may be
very different.

You don't mention which varieties you are growing. You also don't mention
where you live.
This can make a difference. This discussion started with Heirloom
Apples, most of which need spraying to keep them clean.

Beauty of Bath, Lord Lambourne, Cox's Orange Pippin, Worchester Pearmain,
Laxton Superb, Bramley Seedling, Fuji, Red Gauntlet.

I live in Australia.

If you anything about apples, then you should recognise that the list I gave
of what we have is chock full of heritage/heirloom apples.

And certainly location MAY indeed be a factor is growing apples that you
call "clean". But that is not what you originally wrote. I grow apples
that are not sprayed at all, ever.

It is possible to grow good apples without spraying.






I recognize the names of most of the apples you grow. In fact I grew
the Cox apple in my backyard. I guess the "nasties" have not made it
down under. In fact, your government is trying to limit the
importation of USA apples because of several pests. See the
following web site:

http://www.daff.gov.au/__data/assets...-pear-aust.pdf


Here in the central USA, when I stopped spraying my Cox apples, the
bugs had a feast. The way things are spreading around the world, it
won't be long before they start paying you a visit.


Sherwin

"sherwin dubren" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

In my case, I feel that proper usage of these chemicals will have a
negligible effect on the environment. Automobiles, planes, power
plants, etc. far out shadow anything I do in my backyard. If you
have
never tasted a quality apple from the tree, you probably don't know
what you are missing.
If you are implying that unless sprays are used it is not possible to
harvest quality apples then you are wrong.

Our apples were superb this year and not one drop of spray was used and
we harvested from 4 apple trees. Our other apple trees are still too
small to be producing yet.

Can you define quality?

Looks good, has superb flavour, keeps well and keeps a great flavour
right through to the final apple.

Red Delicious can be clean, shinny, and red,
but is the last apple I would buy or grow.

That is a personal preference.

I'm sure some people love Red Delicious so that apple would fit their
criteria of being a good apple. I don't like Red Delicious either, but
then I've only ever eaten commercially produced ones. Home grown ones
may be very different.

You don't mention which varieties you are growing. You also don't
mention where you live.
This can make a difference. This discussion started with Heirloom
Apples, most of which need spraying to keep them clean.

Beauty of Bath, Lord Lambourne, Cox's Orange Pippin, Worchester
Pearmain, Laxton Superb, Bramley Seedling, Fuji, Red Gauntlet.

I live in Australia.

If you anything about apples, then you should recognise that the list I
gave of what we have is chock full of heritage/heirloom apples.

And certainly location MAY indeed be a factor is growing apples that
you call "clean". But that is not what you originally wrote. I grow
apples that are not sprayed at all, ever.

It is possible to grow good apples without spraying.

I recognize the names of most of the apples you grow. In fact I grew
the Cox apple in my backyard. I guess the "nasties" have not made it
down under.

Depends on what you define as nasties. Fruit Fly and codling moth are
probably the worst but we dont' have any on our farm and I'm assiduous in
making sure none arrives here either.


In fact, your government is trying to limit the
importation of USA apples because of several pests. See the
following web site:

http://www.daff.gov.au/__data/assets...-pear-aust.pdf

Fire Blight is the real worry. We don't have that here.

Here in the central USA, when I stopped spraying my Cox apples, the
bugs had a feast. The way things are spreading around the world, it
won't be long before they start paying you a visit.

That is why there are huge screams here everytime there is a threat to our
biosecurity. That is why the recent Free Trade agreement made beteween the
US and Australia caused conniption fits here.

FarmI wrote:

That is why there are huge screams here everytime there is a threat to our
biosecurity. That is why the recent Free Trade agreement made beteween the
US and Australia caused conniption fits here.

Australia seems like an interesting place to visit, but I am not going
to move my orchard there.

Sherwin

In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

FarmI wrote:

That is why there are huge screams here everytime there is a threat to our
biosecurity. That is why the recent Free Trade agreement made beteween the
US and Australia caused conniption fits here.

Australia seems like an interesting place to visit, but I am not going
to move my orchard there.

Sherwin

Earth to Doo. Earth to Doo. Hello! No one thought you were going to move
your orchard to Australia, repeat "no one". Can you please stop
embarrassing us?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

Billy wrote:
In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

FarmI wrote:
That is why there are huge screams here everytime there is a threat to our
biosecurity. That is why the recent Free Trade agreement made beteween the
US and Australia caused conniption fits here.
Australia seems like an interesting place to visit, but I am not going
to move my orchard there.

Sherwin

Earth to Doo. Earth to Doo. Hello! No one thought you were going to move
your orchard to Australia, repeat "no one". Can you please stop
embarrassing us?

BillyGoat,

You miss the whole point of this thread.

The original sender did not specify where he lived, and Australia
would not have been my first guess. When someone claims results for
orchard maintenance, they are meaningless in this case where the
pests in question are not a problem.

Does that penetrate your thick skull?


Sherwin

In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

FarmI wrote:
That is why there are huge screams here everytime there is a threat to
our
biosecurity. That is why the recent Free Trade agreement made beteween
the
US and Australia caused conniption fits here.
Australia seems like an interesting place to visit, but I am not going
to move my orchard there.

Sherwin

Earth to Doo. Earth to Doo. Hello! No one thought you were going to move
your orchard to Australia, repeat "no one". Can you please stop
embarrassing us?

BillyGoat,

You miss the whole point of this thread.

The original sender did not specify where he lived, and Australia
would not have been my first guess. When someone claims results for
orchard maintenance, they are meaningless in this case where the
pests in question are not a problem.

Does that penetrate your thick skull?


Sherwin

How long has FarmI been posting here, Doo? Not much of an observer are
you? IIRC the thread started with a visit to a nursery (or its catalog)
where there was some 300 varieties of heirloom apples.

Done any gardening lately?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

FarmI wrote:
That is why there are huge screams here everytime there is a threat to
our
biosecurity. That is why the recent Free Trade agreement made beteween
the
US and Australia caused conniption fits here.
Australia seems like an interesting place to visit, but I am not going
to move my orchard there.

Sherwin

Earth to Doo. Earth to Doo. Hello! No one thought you were going to move
your orchard to Australia, repeat "no one". Can you please stop
embarrassing us?

BillyGoat,

You miss the whole point of this thread.

Really? Insightful into the depths of your ignorance and stupidity.

The point of this thread, which was started by Steve Peek was,
"If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones
that
taste unbelievably good) you have to check out:
http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm
gonna
need more land."
Steve

You know ugly, Doo, I'm sure. I would guess that Steve was referring to
unsprayed apples, that may not be cosmetically perfect.
You were the one who veered into biocides to make your apples
"Photoshop ready". Steve was just luxuriating in the abundance of apple
varieties.

The original sender did not specify where he lived, and Australia
would not have been my first guess.
Agreed, your guesses haven't been too good.
When someone claims results for
orchard maintenance, they are meaningless in this case where the
pests in question are not a problem.
And pointless when the only "clean" apples you can get come at the cost
of personal or environmental health.

Does that penetrate your thick skull?
Better than being cracked.
Why don't you have another steaming cup of Imidan to settle your nerves?


Sherwin
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

Billy wrote:

The point of this thread, which was started by Steve Peek was,
"If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones
that
taste unbelievably good) you have to check out:

It may have started with a tour of heirloom apples, but he later
threw in the fact that he never sprays his apples.

http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm
gonna
need more land."
Steve

You know ugly, Doo, I'm sure. I would guess that Steve was referring to
unsprayed apples, that may not be cosmetically perfect.
You were the one who veered into biocides to make your apples
"Photoshop ready". Steve was just luxuriating in the abundance of apple
varieties.

I am not speaking about surface damage. If you look at the
following web site, you will see some pictures of apple maggot
damaged fruit:
http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/tree002/tree002.htm

This gardening site plainly states the following:
"Fruit damaged by apple maggots eventually becomes soft and
rotten, and cannot be eaten"

I would not even use these attacked apples for cider, unless you
need a protein fix.



Why don't you have another steaming cup of Imidan to settle your nerves?

That's not even funny.

Billygoat,

You obviously know nothing about fruit growing, so why not stick to
one of your specialties, like carrots.


Yoo probably think that all apples taste the same and probably fool
yourself into thinking Gallo wine is as tasty as a French Chardoney.
I am not trying to be snobish here, but pointing out that I take
extra pains to grow finer apples, and that involves chemical
spraying. As I have mentioned many times, I have the advantage of
controlling the spray management to keep the dangers negligible.
You, on the other hand, put out lots of unsubstanciated data of how
poisonous our fruits and vegitables are. The net effect of this is
to unnecessarily scare people into not eating foods which will have
a net effect of making them more healthy. Even store bought fruit
and vegitables can be made safer by proper washing or peeling. You
probably don't realize that many foods in the market marked as
Organic are not necessarily free of chemicals. I have heard of
organic farmers approaching their neighbors when their crops are
about to be ruined, asking for advice on how to spray with chemicals
to save their livelihood. Also consider that some of the organic
sprays contain nature's most toxic chemicals. It's a self-defense
mechanism plants have. Rotenone, for example can be toxic. So
don't lecture me about your philosophy of saving the planet. I
think you are doing more harm than good in your warnings.

Sherwin

"sherwin dubren" wrote in message
Billy wrote:
In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

FarmI wrote:
That is why there are huge screams here everytime there is a threat to
our biosecurity. That is why the recent Free Trade agreement made
beteween the US and Australia caused conniption fits here.
Australia seems like an interesting place to visit, but I am not
going
to move my orchard there.

Sherwin

Earth to Doo. Earth to Doo. Hello! No one thought you were going to move
your orchard to Australia, repeat "no one". Can you please stop
embarrassing us?

The original sender did not specify where he lived, and Australia
would not have been my first guess. When someone claims results for
orchard maintenance, they are meaningless in this case where the
pests in question are not a problem.

I keep getting the impression that you can't remember who posted what, or
you don't understand what you are reading.

I didn't write that pests aren't a problem. I wrote that I don't use
sprays.

Steve Peek, who is the original poster, wrote that he uses organic
solutions.

I would have thougth that what both Steve and I wrote was very simple to
understand but it seems not in your case.

In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

Billy wrote:

The point of this thread, which was started by Steve Peek was,
"If you have any interest in heirloom apples (you know, the ugly ones
that
taste unbelievably good) you have to check out:

It may have started with a tour of heirloom apples, but he later
threw in the fact that he never sprays his apples.

http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ . They have over 300 varieties. I'm
gonna
need more land."
Steve

You know ugly, Doo, I'm sure. I would guess that Steve was referring to
unsprayed apples, that may not be cosmetically perfect.
You were the one who veered into biocides to make your apples
"Photoshop ready". Steve was just luxuriating in the abundance of apple
varieties.

I am not speaking about surface damage. If you look at the
following web site, you will see some pictures of apple maggot
damaged fruit:
http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/tree002/tree002.htm

This gardening site plainly states the following:
"Fruit damaged by apple maggots eventually becomes soft and
rotten, and cannot be eaten"

I would not even use these attacked apples for cider, unless you
need a protein fix.



Why don't you have another steaming cup of Imidan to settle your nerves?

That's not even funny.

Billygoat,

You obviously know nothing about fruit growing, so why not stick to
one of your specialties, like carrots.


Yoo probably think that all apples taste the same and probably fool
yourself into thinking Gallo wine is as tasty as a French Chardoney.
I am not trying to be snobish here, but pointing out that I take
extra pains to grow finer apples, and that involves chemical
spraying. As I have mentioned many times, I have the advantage of
controlling the spray management to keep the dangers negligible.
You, on the other hand, put out lots of unsubstanciated data of how
poisonous our fruits and vegitables are. The net effect of this is
to unnecessarily scare people into not eating foods which will have
a net effect of making them more healthy. Even store bought fruit
and vegitables can be made safer by proper washing or peeling. You
probably don't realize that many foods in the market marked as
Organic are not necessarily free of chemicals. I have heard of
organic farmers approaching their neighbors when their crops are
about to be ruined, asking for advice on how to spray with chemicals
to save their livelihood. Also consider that some of the organic
sprays contain nature's most toxic chemicals. It's a self-defense
mechanism plants have. Rotenone, for example can be toxic. So
don't lecture me about your philosophy of saving the planet. I
think you are doing more harm than good in your warnings.

Sherwin

The problem is Doo, you don't think. The choice is eat chemicals or
don't eat chemicals. No one knows what the chemicals do, especially in
combination, so, which is it, door number one, or door number two?
There are reports saying it is OK, and there are reports that it is
poison. What is your pick?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

Billy wrote:

The problem is Doo, you don't think. The choice is eat chemicals or
don't eat chemicals. No one knows what the chemicals do, especially in
combination, so, which is it, door number one, or door number two?
There are reports saying it is OK, and there are reports that it is
poison. What is your pick?

Billygoat,

I can recommend a book to you and anyone else interested in a balanced
view of the use of pesticides in today's world. It is written by
Joe schwarcz, Phd, who is the director of the McGill University's
office for Science and Society. He has written many books on health
and this one is called 'An Apple a Day'. I found the entire book to
be of great interest, but you should look specifically at the
chapter on pesticides.

Dr. Schwarcz puts things in perspective about the use of pesticides.
He agrees that they can be harmfull to growers and farmworkers, if
they are not taking the right precautions. However, he does not
think there are any real dangers to the consumer public. It is a
matter of quantity of pesticide in the resultant produce. He
emphasizes that chemicals are used in much lower quantities and
under more careful scrutiny than in the past. I suggest you get
a hold of a copy at your local library. Be sure to read the chapter
on pesticides.

Sherwin