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Old 14-05-2009, 06:40 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 1,179
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/1...hor_michael_po
llans_new

Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like
swine flu. What do all of these topics have in common? Food. Thatıs
right. None of these issues can really be tackled without addressing
some of the fundamental problems of the food system and the American
diet.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

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Old 14-05-2009, 08:01 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: May 2009
Posts: 10
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu


"Billy" wrote in message
...

Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like
swine flu. What do all of these topics have in common? Food. Thatıs
right. None of these issues can really be tackled without addressing
some of the fundamental problems of the food system and the American
diet.
--


People with simple answers never understand the problems.


  #3   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2009, 08:41 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Oct 2008
Posts: 492
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, globaloutbreaks like swine flu

On May 14, 5:40*pm, Billy wrote:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/1..._author_michae...
llans_new

Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like
swine flu. What do all of these topics have in common? Food. Thatıs
right. None of these issues can really be tackled without addressing
some of the fundamental problems of the food system and the American
diet.


You want a simple solution? Stop eating - then we will not have to put
up with your whinging.
  #4   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2009, 10:42 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,179
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

In article
,
moghouse wrote:

On May 14, 5:40*pm, Billy wrote:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/1..._author_michae...
llans_new

Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like
swine flu. What do all of these topics have in common? Food. Thatıs
right. None of these issues can really be tackled without addressing
some of the fundamental problems of the food system and the American
diet.


You want a simple solution? Stop eating - then we will not have to put
up with your whinging.


Your insult lost a lot of its' impact with the missed spelling.
Bwahahahahahaha.
Well, back to wining and dining.
Bwahahahaha
Remember, for all your pollution needs, Mon$anto will be there for you.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html
  #5   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2009, 10:44 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,179
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

In article ,
"The moderator" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...

Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like
swine flu. What do all of these topics have in common? Food. Thatıs
right. None of these issues can really be tackled without addressing
some of the fundamental problems of the food system and the American
diet.
--


People with simple answers never understand the problems.


Can I get a citation on that?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html


  #6   Report Post  
Old 14-05-2009, 11:50 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Oct 2008
Posts: 492
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, globaloutbreaks like swine flu

On May 14, 9:42*pm, Billy wrote:

You want a simple solution? Stop eating - then we will not have to put
up with your whinging.


Your insult lost a lot of its' impact with the missed spelling.
Bwahahahahahaha.
Well, back to wining and dining.
Bwahahahaha
Remember, for all your pollution needs, Mon$anto will be there for you.


Your credibility lost any repect we may have given it by your not
knowing my spelling was correct and your grammar was not. Please learn
the correct position of the possesive apostrophe.
  #7   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2009, 12:13 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Oct 2007
Posts: 498
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

"Billy" wrote in message
...
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/1...hor_michael_po
llans_new

Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like
swine flu. What do all of these topics have in common? Food. Thatıs
right. None of these issues can really be tackled without addressing
some of the fundamental problems of the food system and the American
diet.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html


That's odd about "the way you're raising pigs in America today creates a
perfect environment for the generation of new flu pandemics", subsequent:
"Oh, the industry response and the media response, by and large, is not to
pay attention to that part of the story." Guess I'm paying attention to the
wrong national TV channel as they said just that. Maybe they have more air
time for such things as they don't spend an inordinate amount of time doing
politically motivated ridicules...
--
Dave


  #8   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2009, 12:22 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,179
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

In article
,
moghouse wrote:

On May 14, 9:42*pm, Billy wrote:

You want a simple solution? Stop eating - then we will not have to put
up with your whinging.


Your insult lost a lot of its' impact with the missed spelling.
Bwahahahahahaha.
Well, back to wining and dining.
Bwahahahaha
Remember, for all your pollution needs, Mon$anto will be there for you.


Your credibility lost any repect we may have given it by your not
knowing my spelling was correct and your grammar was not. Please learn
the correct position of the possesive apostrophe.


Well, in this case the possessive pronoun does't take an apostrophy.
Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation
by Lynne Truss
http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Le...ion/dp/1592402
038/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242339470&sr=1-1
pg. 40.

Bwahahahahaha. I just love doing that.
Bwahahahahaha.

Me? Have credibility? Shirley you jest, I'm just the pointing finger,
like this one, see?

Don't you have a book to color or something?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html
  #9   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2009, 01:22 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,096
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
moghouse wrote:

On May 14, 9:42*pm, Billy wrote:

You want a simple solution? Stop eating - then we will not have to put
up with your whinging.

Your insult lost a lot of its' impact with the missed spelling.
Bwahahahahahaha.
Well, back to wining and dining.
Bwahahahaha
Remember, for all your pollution needs, Mon$anto will be there for you.


Your credibility lost any repect we may have given it by your not
knowing my spelling was correct and your grammar was not. Please learn
the correct position of the possesive apostrophe.


Well, in this case the possessive pronoun does't take an apostrophy.
Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation
by Lynne Truss
http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Le...ion/dp/1592402
038/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242339470&sr=1-1
pg. 40.

Bwahahahahaha. I just love doing that.
Bwahahahahaha.

Me? Have credibility? Shirley you jest, I'm just the pointing finger,
like this one, see?

Don't you have a book to color or something?


Small minds get lost in the details. Not their fault as educate is
faulty. Think like this a mantra of sorts. None left behind just pass
the hell with understanding. I really do not how to deal with issues
like this aside from example. Real work.....

Bill educare too bring out a vision...

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)







  #10   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2009, 03:56 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,179
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

In article ,
"Dioclese" NONE wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/1...hor_michael_po
llans_new

Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like
swine flu. What do all of these topics have in common? Food. Thatıs
right. None of these issues can really be tackled without addressing
some of the fundamental problems of the food system and the American
diet.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html


That's odd about "the way you're raising pigs in America today creates a
perfect environment for the generation of new flu pandemics", subsequent:
"Oh, the industry response and the media response, by and large, is not to
pay attention to that part of the story." Guess I'm paying attention to the
wrong national TV channel as they said just that. Maybe they have more air
time for such things as they don't spend an inordinate amount of time doing
politically motivated ridicules...


It seems with the SciAm article
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...on-food-shorta
ges
that Charlie posted, taken with CAFOs breeding new diseases (from the
Pollan interview), maybe we should look to reduce our meat consumption
and spread out the area in which animals are raised to avoid the need
for antibiotic treated animals which can harbor resistant bacteria, and
easily transmit viruses.

What ridicules are you referring to?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html


  #11   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2009, 04:02 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,179
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

In article
. easynews.com,
Steve wrote:

On Thu, 14 May 2009 19:17:33 -0500, Charlie wrote:

here's
the article

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...food-shortages


"When Elizabeth Kolbert, a writer for the New Yorker, asked energy
guru Amory Lovins about thinking outside the box, Lovins responded:
“There is no box.”"
/shudder/


It looks like it's time to reduce energy, and meat consumption, and
start eating more plants.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html
  #12   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2009, 04:11 AM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,036
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

The moderator wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message
...

Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks
like swine flu. What do all of these topics have in common? Food.
Thatıs right. None of these issues can really be tackled without
addressing some of the fundamental problems of the food system and
the American diet.
--


People with simple answers never understand the problems.


Let's try some different words.

The way that food is grown, processed and transported is a major
contemporary issue in the Western world, it is not unique to America.. The
apparent cheapness and abundance of food conceals real environmental and
social costs in its production and unintended negative consequences that
have the potential to become more significant in the near future. The
system that puts food on the table and the way many people view food (or
ignore the issue) is not sustainable and must change.


David

  #13   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2009, 04:21 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,004
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu


That's odd about "the way you're raising pigs in America today creates a
perfect environment for the generation of new flu pandemics"


This is the kind of misinformation produced by people with an "agenda".

Recombinant forms of influenza like "swine flu" are the results of human -
animal interaction of a very close sort. In order for this to happen both
must be able to be infected with the virus (like influenza) and the humans
and animals have to be in close contact at the time of the infection,
either sneezing in each others faces, or, since influenza is shed in the
saliva, nasal secretion or FECES the human can also by hand transfer the
virus to their own mouth (inhale), nose or eyes, all portals of entry.

In a well run big or factory pig farm (or chicken farm) the workers are required to
change into and wear special "clean" suits complete with bootie covers, masks,
gloves, hoods and even eye protection. The reason for this is to prevent humans from
walking in and/or passing their bacteria and viruses and microbes to the pigs, and,
after working they clean up before they leave so they dont track anything out. The
cleanup of the feces and urine is done automatically (large amounts which can really
foul the environment if not handled properly. Enforcement depends on state). Feeding
antibiotics, BTW, has absolutely nothing to do with viruses. Hogs are housed in
buildings which limit the entrance of "wild type" bacteria and viruses, mostly by
preventing outside disease carrying animals from getting in to the areas so they are
much more likely to NOT have disease and much more likely to be healthy (stress
aside). A healthy pig will produce large litters, will put on weight and go to market
faster. Everything is done to maximize big healthy pigs going to market. I am sure if
classical or rock music encouraged growth, they would pipe this in to the barns as
well. This is what is typically seen in the US.

In contrast the farms I worked on during the summers of my youth
(grandparents and friends) the pigs were out in a pen or field mixing it up
with disease carrying wild life. I didnt have much to do with pigs cause I
was told to STAY OUT OF THE PIG PENS as they might go after me (pigs eat
flesh with relish, BTW). These are not cute little pet pigs. And there is
a much higher chance of these pigs carrying diseases that can be
transmitted to humans as well.

And then there are the pig factories that have gone to Mexico do so to
AVOID the environmental requirements and are flushing, I am sure, the urine
and feces right out the "back door". They may have lax enforcement of
sanitation within the farms, they certainly have more diseased wild animals
(and biting insects to carry disease) in the area and health standards for
the workers may be nonexistent along with "time off for being ill". Local
labor is cheap and I am sure they make no effort to instruct their workers
in health standards, etc.


INgrid
Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan
on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago
  #14   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2009, 06:04 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Oct 2008
Posts: 492
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, globaloutbreaks like swine flu

On May 15, 3:21*pm, wrote:

And then there are the pig factories that have gone to Mexico do so to
AVOID the environmental requirements ......


Surely you are not trying to tell us that some business men are greedy
and seek to circumvent the regulations? Some of us had noticed that
first from the finance industry and more recently from the government
industry.
  #15   Report Post  
Old 15-05-2009, 09:09 PM posted to rec.gardens,rec.gardens.edible,uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,179
Default Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

In article ,
wrote:

Ingrid, you seem a little shrill lately, everything OK?


That's odd about "the way you're raising pigs in America today creates a
perfect environment for the generation of new flu pandemics"


This is the kind of misinformation produced by people with an "agenda".

Recombinant forms of influenza like "swine flu" are the results of human -
animal interaction of a very close sort. In order for this to happen both
must be able to be infected with the virus (like influenza) and the humans
and animals have to be in close contact at the time of the infection,
either sneezing in each others faces, or, since influenza is shed in the
saliva, nasal secretion or FECES the human can also by hand transfer the
virus to their own mouth (inhale), nose or eyes, all portals of entry.

In a well run big or factory pig farm (or chicken farm) the workers are
required to
change into and wear special "clean" suits complete with bootie covers,
masks,
gloves, hoods and even eye protection. The reason for this is to prevent
humans from
walking in and/or passing their bacteria and viruses and microbes to the
pigs, and,
after working they clean up before they leave so they dont track anything
out. The
cleanup of the feces and urine is done automatically (large amounts which can
really
foul the environment if not handled properly. Enforcement depends on state).
Feeding
antibiotics, BTW, has absolutely nothing to do with viruses. Hogs are housed
in
buildings which limit the entrance of "wild type" bacteria and viruses,
mostly by
preventing outside disease carrying animals from getting in to the areas so
they are
much more likely to NOT have disease and much more likely to be healthy
(stress
aside). A healthy pig will produce large litters, will put on weight and go
to market
faster. Everything is done to maximize big healthy pigs going to market. I am
sure if
classical or rock music encouraged growth, they would pipe this in to the
barns as
well. This is what is typically seen in the US.

In contrast the farms I worked on during the summers of my youth
(grandparents and friends) the pigs were out in a pen or field mixing it up
with disease carrying wild life. I didnt have much to do with pigs cause I
was told to STAY OUT OF THE PIG PENS as they might go after me (pigs eat
flesh with relish, BTW). These are not cute little pet pigs. And there is
a much higher chance of these pigs carrying diseases that can be
transmitted to humans as well.

And then there are the pig factories that have gone to Mexico do so to
AVOID the environmental requirements and are flushing, I am sure, the urine
and feces right out the "back door". They may have lax enforcement of
sanitation within the farms, they certainly have more diseased wild animals
(and biting insects to carry disease) in the area and health standards for
the workers may be nonexistent along with "time off for being ill". Local
labor is cheap and I am sure they make no effort to instruct their workers
in health standards, etc.


INgrid
Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan
on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago


Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus aureus: A Growing Link between MRSA
Infections and Pigs
http://www.biojobblog.com/2009/03/ar...methicillin-re
sistant-staphylococcus-aureus-a-growing-link-between-mrsa-infections-and-
pigs/

SUPERBUGS
The new generation of resistant infections is almost impossible to treat.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2..._groopman?curr
entPage=all
-----

And then, this one which has elements for conspiracy theorists
everywhere. A tedious but satisfying read.

The A H1N1 Pandemic: Pig to Human Transmission of the Swine Flu?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=13622

(excerpt)
Scientific Evidence of Pig to Human Transmission

A recent authoritative study by the John Hopkins School of Public Health
on Industrial Farm Animal Production (IFAP) refutes the statements of
the WHO. It confirms that IFAP hog farms are not only the source of
contamination of surrounding groundwater but also of the spread of novel
viruses including swine flu (See Pew Commission on Industrial Farm
Animal Production, Pew Foundation and Bloomberg and John Hopkins School
of Public Health, Putting Meat on the Table Industrial Farm Animal
Production in Americas, see also Washington Post, May 9 2009).
These viruses can be transmitted from pigs to humans and then "from
person to person in a community setting and well beyond." (Ibid) The
transmission can also occur in the food chain. The virus contaminates
the meat which is then consumed:
"An infectious agent that originates at an IFAP facility may persist
through meat processing and contaminate consumer food animal products,
resulting in a serious disease outbreak far from the ifap facility"
(See Putting Meat on the Table Industrial Farm Animal Production in
Americas, p. 11.)
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html


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