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Old 23-05-2009, 07:42 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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"Frank" wrote in message news:631b4004-3cc0-475c-acf5-
4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother

the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect
garden beds at the same time.
_________________________

That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with cardboard
& mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during the growing season
AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it decomposes.
--S.

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Old 23-05-2009, 07:46 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

I had a 1/4 acre garden when I lived in Texas. (and I used RoundUp to
spot treat the Bermudagrass that kept sneaking in.) It was a huge garden
(IMHO) and was pretty much unmanageable until I discovered drip
irrigation.


Drip irrigation is the best invention, EVER. Because of it, I get to plant
my entire front yard in corn, tomatoes, and cucumbers, and only have to work
about ten minutes a day on it.
--S.

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Old 23-05-2009, 10:25 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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"Suzanne D." wrote in message
...

"Frank" wrote in message news:631b4004-3cc0-475c-acf5-
4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother

the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect
garden beds at the same time.
_________________________

That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with
cardboard & mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during the
growing season AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it
decomposes.


Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap... and a
4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less than
six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and till
and rake again, and again. Killing the weeds by smothering or with
chemicals is a total waste of time, labor, and money... there is NO labor
free gardening. A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass so
that those will never grow again... and NEW weeds are inevitable forever.
I've been preparing my garden for planting for two days now, I hope to
finish tomorrow and I plan to plant this weekend. Gardening is always work,
a lot of work.



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Old 23-05-2009, 10:28 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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"SteveB" wrote in message
...
My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know.

I have what seems to be Bermuda grass or a variant. Stuff that has a
spreading root system. Hundreds of other garden variety weeds. I till
and till, and rake out the weeds and roots, but I know I won't get them
all.

I use Roundup on my 2+ acre spread. I have heard that it only kills what
it comes in contact with, and doesn't work once it hits the soil. I'd
like to know if it is safe to use in the garden on the weedy areas, or
will it stay in there after I plant. Other suggestions for weed control
that is plant friendly would be appreciated.

Steve


Think of Bermuda grass along the same lines as the movie "Terminator". It
never, ever stops. You can't ever kill it entirely. It always comes back
with a vengeance.

Roundup is only temporary. Does not affect this type of grass's root
system. Overlays such as plywood, newspaper and the like, it just either
penetrates it or goes around to the perimeter. Just my personal
experiences.

Even the newsgroup website link pointer fanatic is confused here.
--
Dave


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Old 23-05-2009, 10:30 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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"Suzanne D." wrote:

Drip irrigation is the best invention, EVER. Because of it, I get to
plant my entire front yard in corn, tomatoes, and cucumbers, and only have
to work about ten minutes a day on it.

Ten minutes a day... you must hold the record for the smallest garden.





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Old 23-05-2009, 10:43 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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In article ,
"Dioclese" NONE wrote:

Even the newsgroup website link pointer fanatic is confused here.


I don't need to be characterized by a flange head. Don't you ever get
anything right?

When I post a cite, it says there are at least other people who support
a position.

When you give your opinions, you are all alone.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html
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Old 23-05-2009, 10:57 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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On May 23, 1:25 pm, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Suzanne D." wrote in message

...

"Frank" wrote in message news:631b4004-3cc0-475c-acf5-
4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother

the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect
garden beds at the same time.
_________________________


That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with
cardboard & mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during the
growing season AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it
decomposes.


Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap... and a
4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less than
six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and till
and rake again, and again. Killing the weeds by smothering or with
chemicals is a total waste of time, labor, and money... there is NO labor
free gardening. A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass so
that those will never grow again... and NEW weeds are inevitable forever.
I've been preparing my garden for planting for two days now, I hope to
finish tomorrow and I plan to plant this weekend. Gardening is always work,
a lot of work.


It was always a lot of work for me too until I read Ruth Stout No-Work
Garden Book 30 years ago, what an eye opener. I just planted this
years crop, took about 5 minutes , just push aside the leaves and
planted the seed and covered it up. No tilling, fertilizing, I didn't
even bother to water, rain is expected soon. (for yield I get about 25
pounds of beans from a 4x8 size area, don't know if that is good or
not). I don't stake tomatoes either.

The secret is just to keep your soil covered with organic material 365
days a year like mother nature does, she'll take care of the rest
(weeding, fertilizing, watering etc)

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Old 23-05-2009, 11:43 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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wrote:
On May 23, 1:25 pm, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Suzanne D." wrote in message

...

"Frank" wrote in message news:631b4004-3cc0-475c-acf5-
4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother
the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect
garden beds at the same time.
_________________________
That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with
cardboard & mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during the
growing season AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it
decomposes.

Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap... and a
4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less than
six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and till
and rake again, and again. Killing the weeds by smothering or with
chemicals is a total waste of time, labor, and money... there is NO labor
free gardening. A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass so
that those will never grow again... and NEW weeds are inevitable forever.
I've been preparing my garden for planting for two days now, I hope to
finish tomorrow and I plan to plant this weekend. Gardening is always work,
a lot of work.


It was always a lot of work for me too until I read Ruth Stout No-Work
Garden Book 30 years ago, what an eye opener. I just planted this
years crop, took about 5 minutes , just push aside the leaves and
planted the seed and covered it up. No tilling, fertilizing, I didn't
even bother to water, rain is expected soon. (for yield I get about 25
pounds of beans from a 4x8 size area, don't know if that is good or
not). I don't stake tomatoes either.

The secret is just to keep your soil covered with organic material 365
days a year like mother nature does, she'll take care of the rest
(weeding, fertilizing, watering etc)



If I was starting a new garden plot, I would spray one time with Roundup
(actually, probably a generic equivalent) in late spring when the weeds
and grass are growing good. Then that first year I would transplant in
warm season crops like tomatoes and peppers and eggplant, disturbing the
soil as little as possible. Mulch heavily with shredded paper and
leaves and other carbon-rich matter, supplying nitrogen as necessary
just to the plants (mostly in the form of diluted urine.) Keep adding
mulch as it disappears. Any weeds that come up will be starved for
nitrogen (by the decomposing mulch) until you get a chance to pull them
out. Just toss them on top to die and go back in the soil eventually.

Let the earthworms till the soil instead of you, and the dormant weed
seeds will stay dormant. You'll probably never have to use the Roundup
again. By the second year, you can probably grow beans and squash and
other direct-sown crops.

Bob
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Old 24-05-2009, 12:00 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

If I was starting a new garden plot, I would spray one time with Roundup
(actually, probably a generic equivalent) in late spring when the weeds
and grass are growing good.


Why, when in most cases, newspaper and mulch will accomplish the same
thing?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html
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Old 24-05-2009, 12:01 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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In article
,
" wrote:

On May 23, 1:25 pm, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Suzanne D." wrote in message

...

"Frank" wrote in message news:631b4004-3cc0-475c-acf5-
4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother
the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect
garden beds at the same time.
_________________________


That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with
cardboard & mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during the
growing season AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it
decomposes.


Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap... and a
4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less than
six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and till
and rake again, and again. Killing the weeds by smothering or with
chemicals is a total waste of time, labor, and money... there is NO labor
free gardening. A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass so
that those will never grow again... and NEW weeds are inevitable forever.
I've been preparing my garden for planting for two days now, I hope to
finish tomorrow and I plan to plant this weekend. Gardening is always work,
a lot of work.


It was always a lot of work for me too until I read Ruth Stout No-Work
Garden Book 30 years ago, what an eye opener. I just planted this
years crop, took about 5 minutes , just push aside the leaves and
planted the seed and covered it up. No tilling, fertilizing, I didn't
even bother to water, rain is expected soon. (for yield I get about 25
pounds of beans from a 4x8 size area, don't know if that is good or
not). I don't stake tomatoes either.

The secret is just to keep your soil covered with organic material 365
days a year like mother nature does, she'll take care of the rest
(weeding, fertilizing, watering etc)


I presume you do crop rotation, and that is why you needn't fertilize?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html


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Old 24-05-2009, 12:32 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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On Sat, 23 May 2009 16:36:22 GMT, against all advice, something
compelled "brooklyn1" , to say:

He certainly did refer to his 2 acre garden




Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.


Who gives a shit? I mean, besides you.




--

Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will
have to ram it down their throats.
- Howard Aiken
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Old 24-05-2009, 12:43 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"Suzanne D." wrote:

Drip irrigation is the best invention, EVER. Because of it, I get to
plant my entire front yard in corn, tomatoes, and cucumbers, and only
have to work about ten minutes a day on it.

Ten minutes a day... you must hold the record for the smallest garden.


Not at all. My entire front yard is about 60 feet long. (I've got 120
hills of corn, and about 100 cucumber plants along the front fence.) My
back yard has eighteen 3X6 foot raised beds, plus a six-foot round 3-tiered
herb garden, and a bean house that is about 10 feet on each of four sides.
And I have about 20 fruit and nut trees, plus odd vegetables stuck randomly
throughout the yard, such as on trellises and along the decks. (I like
edible landscaping!) Watering the majority of the garden takes as long as
necessary to turn a couple of spigots, plus hand-watering three or four of
the beds every day. Of course, the initial laying-down of the drip lines
took a long time, but now that everything is in place, it just takes a few
minutes to make sure everything gets watered.
--S.

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Old 24-05-2009, 12:56 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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"brooklyn1" wrote in message news:%YYRl.312
Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap... and
a 4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less
than six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and
till and rake again, and again.


Well, no you wouldn't. If you start off by smothering the grasses with
plywood or some other solid surface, then you shouldn't till at all after
that. Tilling will just bring the submerged weed seeds to the surface and
you'll have the same problem over again. It's much better to smother
everything under where you want to plant (letting the old plants rot and add
nutrients to the soil), and then build on top of that to make new,
relatively weed-free soil. This is why I would advocate cardboard instead
of plywood (since cardboard can be left in place to decompose), but the
plywood *IS* a good idea if you can get it and don't mind moving it when it
comes time to plant.

A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass so that those will
never grow again...


A good, deep rototilling will also dredge up dormant weed seeds and bring
them back to life. With my clayey, weedy soil, I have found it infinitely
better to leave the tiller in the garage, and just pile organic stuff on top
of cardboard to make rich, fertile garden plots that are virtually
weed-free.
--S.

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wrote in message news:0b27fed2-e802-4496-90a0-
It was always a lot of work for me too until I read Ruth Stout No-Work
Garden Book 30 years ago, what an eye opener. I just planted this
years crop, took about 5 minutes , just push aside the leaves and
planted the seed and covered it up. No tilling, fertilizing, I didn't
even bother to water, rain is expected soon. (for yield I get about 25
pounds of beans from a 4x8 size area, don't know if that is good or
not). I don't stake tomatoes either.



Amen. The first year I tried to do a garden here, it was tons of work with
the tiller, and then the clayey soil compacted and left me with stunted
vegetables that became progressively more hidden in a sea of persistent
weeds.

Then my husband piled that fall's leaves on one area, and when I went to
plant some tomatoes there, I found the soil deep, black, crumbly, and full
of earthworms! Got an incredible tomato crop in a plot that was barely ten
feet square.

Since then I have put more work into it by making raised wooden beds, laying
down paper in the fall and piling the leaves and grass on top of that. But
yeah, in the spring, the work to prepare the garden is so light. I just pop
transplants right into the beds, no tilling or mixing or measuring. For
small-seeded beds, I make little furrows in the old leaves and throw some
compost in there to plant the seeds in. I can't believe I used to mess
around with a tiller and waste all that time and gasoline.
--S.

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Old 24-05-2009, 01:10 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible,rec.gardens
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"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

If I was starting a new garden plot, I would spray one time with Roundup
(actually, probably a generic equivalent) in late spring when the weeds
and grass are growing good.



See, to me, putting poison on weeds is just a waste of good organic matter!
I prefer to either smother them, or if that's not possible, pull them and
put them back into the bed to rot. Either way it means more nutrients for
my garden. I used to loathe the thick stand of Timothy grass we have
invading our garden beds, but once I saw it as virtually the only source of
nitrogen in the later months of our dry, hot summer climate, I just get
excited when I see it growing well, because I get to chop it down and put it
on my vegetables!

People really need to understand that weeds are nature's way of protecting
the earth. When you expose a patch of earth bare (as with tilling), weeds
will sprout to cover it. You can't expect to have pure bare land. Killing
weeds solves a temporary problem but doesn't solve it forever, unless you
plan to keep putting poison on there year after year. When the ground is
bare, weeds will grow, no matter what you do. So the key is to NOT let the
ground remain uncovered. Mulches and cover crops can help protect the earth
so that weeds don't have to.
--S.

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