Suzanne D. wrote:

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

If I was starting a new garden plot, I would spray one time with
Roundup (actually, probably a generic equivalent) in late spring when
the weeds and grass are growing good.


See, to me, putting poison on weeds is just a waste of good organic
matter! I prefer to either smother them, or if that's not possible, pull
them and put them back into the bed to rot. Either way it means more
nutrients for my garden. I used to loathe the thick stand of Timothy
grass we have invading our garden beds, but once I saw it as virtually
the only source of nitrogen in the later months of our dry, hot summer
climate, I just get excited when I see it growing well, because I get to
chop it down and put it on my vegetables!

People really need to understand that weeds are nature's way of
protecting the earth. When you expose a patch of earth bare (as with
tilling), weeds will sprout to cover it. You can't expect to have pure
bare land. Killing weeds solves a temporary problem but doesn't solve
it forever, unless you plan to keep putting poison on there year after
year. When the ground is bare, weeds will grow, no matter what you do.
So the key is to NOT let the ground remain uncovered. Mulches and cover
crops can help protect the earth so that weeds don't have to.
--S.


The weeds don't go to waste, they get covered with mulch and rot. :-)
You keep everything covered so the dormant weed seeds don't sprout.
(pulling the weeds would unnecessarily disturb the soil)

Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On May 23, 1:25 pm, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Suzanne D." wrote in message

...

"Frank" wrote in message
news:631b4004-3cc0-475c-acf5-
4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother
the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect
garden beds at the same time.
_________________________
That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with
cardboard & mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during the
growing season AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it
decomposes.
Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap...
and a
4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less
than
six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and
till
and rake again, and again. Killing the weeds by smothering or with
chemicals is a total waste of time, labor, and money... there is NO
labor
free gardening. A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass
so
that those will never grow again... and NEW weeds are inevitable
forever.
I've been preparing my garden for planting for two days now, I hope to
finish tomorrow and I plan to plant this weekend. Gardening is always
work,
a lot of work.

It was always a lot of work for me too until I read Ruth Stout No-Work
Garden Book 30 years ago, what an eye opener. I just planted this
years crop, took about 5 minutes , just push aside the leaves and
planted the seed and covered it up. No tilling, fertilizing, I didn't
even bother to water, rain is expected soon. (for yield I get about 25
pounds of beans from a 4x8 size area, don't know if that is good or
not). I don't stake tomatoes either.

The secret is just to keep your soil covered with organic material 365
days a year like mother nature does, she'll take care of the rest
(weeding, fertilizing, watering etc)



If I was starting a new garden plot, I would spray one time with Roundup
(actually, probably a generic equivalent) in late spring when the weeds
and grass are growing good. Then that first year I would transplant in
warm season crops like tomatoes and peppers and eggplant, disturbing the
soil as little as possible. Mulch heavily with shredded paper and leaves
and other carbon-rich matter, supplying nitrogen as necessary just to the
plants (mostly in the form of diluted urine.) Keep adding mulch as it
disappears. Any weeds that come up will be starved for nitrogen (by the
decomposing mulch) until you get a chance to pull them out. Just toss
them on top to die and go back in the soil eventually.

Let the earthworms till the soil instead of you, and the dormant weed
seeds will stay dormant. You'll probably never have to use the Roundup
again. By the second year, you can probably grow beans and squash and
other direct-sown crops.

Bob

The original post was about Bermuda grass. This stuff is prolific and grows
around and through just about anything you throw at it. It laughs at
compost as an impediment. I've seen a clay pot full of pure, dry sand with
Bermuda sprouting out it. No, it was not rooting in the sand. The Bermuda
crept through the one drainaige hole at the bottom and worked its way to the
top. The pot was sitting on the edge of a concrete slab, the Bermuda crept
up 6" from the ground, then into the pot's bottom. In another similar case,
a pot sitting on a 4" thick flat rock. 16" tall pot. The pot did have soil
in it. Same thing.

I'm ignoring the newsgroup weblink police fanatic. If you look hard enough
on the internet, you will find that pigs can fly. Doesn't mean that I
believe it.
--
Dave

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
brooklyn1 wrote:

I don't believe SteveB has a 2 acre garden, in fact I don't believe he
has any size garden or has ever had any garden, and probably once he
wakes up from his beer fogged trailer trash dream and realizes what
gardening is about he will never have a garden... no one who has a 2
acre garden (that's a farm, folks) would ever ask such questions about
killing grass and weeds with Roundup defolient... a person could feed a
family of four with veggies from the market for two years for the price
of enough Roundup to treat 2 acres. A person can easily feed a family
of four (and two other families of four) veggies all year from a 1/16
acre garden and not pay a cent for any chemicals whatsoever... Steve
couldn't afford to treat a 2 acre garden with H2O. When I read of
people with their claims of 4 1/2 acre and 2 acre gardens (none have
ever posted a photo) I seriously wonder if folks here have any concept
of what's an acre of garden.



He never said he had a 2 acre garden. He said he has 2+ acres and uses
Roundup, and he's getting ready to put in a garden.


He certainly did refer to his 2 acre garden... why would someone mention 2
acres in reference to a garden when they are putting in say a 10' X 10'
plot?!?!? Actually he did say he already has a garden, a "weedy" garden
_"My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know."_ He led folks to believe he
has a 2 acre garden that is all weedy and he was asking if it was okay to
get rid of the weeds in his garden with Roundup... it is quite clear that
his intent was to lead folks to believe he has a weedy 2 acre garden. Had
he truly wanted suggestion about how to weed his garden (which many
offered) an honest person would have said right from the gitgo what size
area (he said 2 acres), otherwise no one could offer help except some
generalizations and mostly wild speculation. Just like the last person
who boasted that she had a 4 1/2 acre garden but when I asked her to post
pictures of her garden she didn't deny it but instead posted pictures of
all sorts of things but none of any garden (probably a neighbor's
property). People on usenet are smarmy, they make all sorts of wildly
exaggerated claims and tell down right lies... very few are who they say
they are. Many of the pictures folks post are not of their garden and/or
not of anything they themselves did. It's easy to post a picture of
someone elses garden, or some landscaper was paid to do and then claim
they did it, and cameras are very portable so anyone can take a shot of a
garden across town, and it's very easy to lift an image off the net...
when someone posts a pictures of fully cropped flowers I wonder where they
stole those images.


You made your point when talking about smaller acreage and affordibility of
Roundup vs. feeding the family. I don't digress. You did just waste your
"breath" though on a point that is really moot from the prior replying
poster.
--
Dave

On Sat, 23 May 2009 23:43:17 -0500, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On May 23, 1:25 pm, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Suzanne D." wrote in message

...

"Frank" wrote in message
news:631b4004-3cc0-475c-acf5-
4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother
the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect
garden beds at the same time.
_________________________
That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with
cardboard & mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during the
growing season AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it
decomposes.
Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap...
and a
4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less
than
six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and
till
and rake again, and again. Killing the weeds by smothering or with
chemicals is a total waste of time, labor, and money... there is NO
labor
free gardening. A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass
so
that those will never grow again... and NEW weeds are inevitable
forever.
I've been preparing my garden for planting for two days now, I hope to
finish tomorrow and I plan to plant this weekend. Gardening is always
work,
a lot of work.

It was always a lot of work for me too until I read Ruth Stout No-Work
Garden Book 30 years ago, what an eye opener. I just planted this
years crop, took about 5 minutes , just push aside the leaves and
planted the seed and covered it up. No tilling, fertilizing, I didn't
even bother to water, rain is expected soon. (for yield I get about 25
pounds of beans from a 4x8 size area, don't know if that is good or
not). I don't stake tomatoes either.

The secret is just to keep your soil covered with organic material 365
days a year like mother nature does, she'll take care of the rest
(weeding, fertilizing, watering etc)



If I was starting a new garden plot, I would spray one time with Roundup
(actually, probably a generic equivalent) in late spring when the weeds
and grass are growing good. Then that first year I would transplant in
warm season crops like tomatoes and peppers and eggplant, disturbing the
soil as little as possible. Mulch heavily with shredded paper and leaves
and other carbon-rich matter, supplying nitrogen as necessary just to the
plants (mostly in the form of diluted urine.) Keep adding mulch as it
disappears. Any weeds that come up will be starved for nitrogen (by the
decomposing mulch) until you get a chance to pull them out. Just toss
them on top to die and go back in the soil eventually.

Let the earthworms till the soil instead of you, and the dormant weed
seeds will stay dormant. You'll probably never have to use the Roundup
again. By the second year, you can probably grow beans and squash and
other direct-sown crops.

Bob

The original post was about Bermuda grass. This stuff is prolific and grows
around and through just about anything you throw at it. It laughs at
compost as an impediment. I've seen a clay pot full of pure, dry sand with
Bermuda sprouting out it. No, it was not rooting in the sand. The Bermuda
crept through the one drainaige hole at the bottom and worked its way to the
top. The pot was sitting on the edge of a concrete slab, the Bermuda crept
up 6" from the ground, then into the pot's bottom. In another similar case,
a pot sitting on a 4" thick flat rock. 16" tall pot. The pot did have soil
in it. Same thing.

I'm ignoring the newsgroup weblink police fanatic. If you look hard enough
on the internet, you will find that pigs can fly. Doesn't mean that I
believe it.


I have it where it went under three feet of concrete. Aggressive
stuff.

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote
"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know.

I have what seems to be Bermuda grass or a variant. Stuff that has a
spreading root system. Hundreds of other garden variety weeds. I
till and till, and rake out the weeds and roots, but I know I won't
get them all.

I use Roundup on my 2+ acre spread. I have heard that it only kills
what it comes in contact with, and doesn't work once it hits the soil.
I'd like to know if it is safe to use in the garden on the weedy
areas, or will it stay in there after I plant. Other suggestions for
weed control that is plant friendly would be appreciated.

Steve



What will you be planting, Steve?

Tomatos, peppers, beans, cucumbers, squash .......... whatever.


OK. Here's where Roundup discussions always get interesting, so pick and
choose which of the responses you believe. A pair of dice is helpful,
since that roughly matches the science behind human exposure to
agricultural chemicals.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DMPGR.php

In my opinion, the only way to determine whether ag chemicals are safe
around humans is to test those chemicals in the same way as drugs. In
other words, dose living volunteers with the stuff. For all intents and
purposes, that never happens, although someone in this group once showed
an exception.

If you're growing food at home, what's the point of taking the same risks
as commercial farmers and exposing yourself to chemicals which have not
and will never be tested for safety? Why do all that work to end up with
essentially the same result?

Use mechanical methods to deal with weeds, like the suggestions about
cardboard & mulch.


Every three years I treat my 12' wide by 600' long crushed stone driveway
plus two parking aprons with Roundup Pro Concentrate, that area is roughly
1/6 acre. I mix and spray 3 gallons of roundup pro concentrate, last time
was two years ago and it cost more than $300 (would cost $400 now) and
most of a day's labor with a 3 gallon manual pump sprayer and a lot of
sweat mixing and lugging on a hot sunny day (didn't feel the investment in
a power roadway sprayer was worth it for one time every 3 years). It
would cost roughly $2,400 to treat 2 acres of unwanted lawn with
Roundup... and I seriously doubt vegetables would grow there for at least
a year... I know from personal experience that the effect of Roundup
continues for a long time, that's why I can get by with an application
every three years... it's been two years now and vegetation is starting to
move in enough that now I mow my driveway.

I don't believe SteveB has a 2 acre garden, in fact I don't believe he has
any size garden or has ever had any garden, and probably once he wakes up
from his beer fogged trailer trash dream and realizes what gardening is
about he will never have a garden... no one who has a 2 acre garden
(that's a farm, folks) would ever ask such questions about killing grass
and weeds with Roundup defolient... a person could feed a family of four
with veggies from the market for two years for the price of enough Roundup
to treat 2 acres. A person can easily feed a family of four (and two
other families of four) veggies all year from a 1/16 acre garden and not
pay a cent for any chemicals whatsoever... Steve couldn't afford to treat
a 2 acre garden with H2O. When I read of people with their claims of 4
1/2 acre and 2 acre gardens (none have ever posted a photo) I seriously
wonder if folks here have any concept of what's an acre of garden.

Who ****ed in your Wheaties?

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
brooklyn1 wrote:

I don't believe SteveB has a 2 acre garden, in fact I don't believe he
has any size garden or has ever had any garden, and probably once he
wakes up from his beer fogged trailer trash dream and realizes what
gardening is about he will never have a garden... no one who has a 2
acre garden (that's a farm, folks) would ever ask such questions about
killing grass and weeds with Roundup defolient... a person could feed a
family of four with veggies from the market for two years for the price
of enough Roundup to treat 2 acres. A person can easily feed a family
of four (and two other families of four) veggies all year from a 1/16
acre garden and not pay a cent for any chemicals whatsoever... Steve
couldn't afford to treat a 2 acre garden with H2O. When I read of
people with their claims of 4 1/2 acre and 2 acre gardens (none have
ever posted a photo) I seriously wonder if folks here have any concept
of what's an acre of garden.



He never said he had a 2 acre garden. He said he has 2+ acres and uses
Roundup, and he's getting ready to put in a garden.


He certainly did refer to his 2 acre garden... why would someone mention 2
acres in reference to a garden when they are putting in say a 10' X 10'
plot?!?!? Actually he did say he already has a garden, a "weedy" garden
_"My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know."_ He led folks to believe he
has a 2 acre garden that is all weedy and he was asking if it was okay to
get rid of the weeds in his garden with Roundup... it is quite clear that
his intent was to lead folks to believe he has a weedy 2 acre garden. Had
he truly wanted suggestion about how to weed his garden (which many
offered) an honest person would have said right from the gitgo what size
area (he said 2 acres), otherwise no one could offer help except some
generalizations and mostly wild speculation. Just like the last person
who boasted that she had a 4 1/2 acre garden but when I asked her to post
pictures of her garden she didn't deny it but instead posted pictures of
all sorts of things but none of any garden (probably a neighbor's
property). People on usenet are smarmy, they make all sorts of wildly
exaggerated claims and tell down right lies... very few are who they say
they are. Many of the pictures folks post are not of their garden and/or
not of anything they themselves did. It's easy to post a picture of
someone elses garden, or some landscaper was paid to do and then claim
they did it, and cameras are very portable so anyone can take a shot of a
garden across town, and it's very easy to lift an image off the net...
when someone posts a pictures of fully cropped flowers I wonder where they
stole those images.

What have you been sniffing, Roundup? I own two acres, which I spray here
and there for weed control. I am starting a garden, and wanted to spray a
little in there to get ahead of the weeds.

Did you get it that time, Sparky?

Steve

Dioclese wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On May 23, 1:25 pm, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Suzanne D." wrote in message

...

"Frank" wrote in message
news:631b4004-3cc0-475c-acf5-
4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother
the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect
garden beds at the same time.
_________________________
That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with
cardboard & mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during the
growing season AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it
decomposes.
Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap...
and a
4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less
than
six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and
till
and rake again, and again. Killing the weeds by smothering or with
chemicals is a total waste of time, labor, and money... there is NO
labor
free gardening. A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass
so
that those will never grow again... and NEW weeds are inevitable
forever.
I've been preparing my garden for planting for two days now, I hope to
finish tomorrow and I plan to plant this weekend. Gardening is always
work,
a lot of work.
It was always a lot of work for me too until I read Ruth Stout No-Work
Garden Book 30 years ago, what an eye opener. I just planted this
years crop, took about 5 minutes , just push aside the leaves and
planted the seed and covered it up. No tilling, fertilizing, I didn't
even bother to water, rain is expected soon. (for yield I get about 25
pounds of beans from a 4x8 size area, don't know if that is good or
not). I don't stake tomatoes either.

The secret is just to keep your soil covered with organic material 365
days a year like mother nature does, she'll take care of the rest
(weeding, fertilizing, watering etc)


If I was starting a new garden plot, I would spray one time with Roundup
(actually, probably a generic equivalent) in late spring when the weeds
and grass are growing good. Then that first year I would transplant in
warm season crops like tomatoes and peppers and eggplant, disturbing the
soil as little as possible. Mulch heavily with shredded paper and leaves
and other carbon-rich matter, supplying nitrogen as necessary just to the
plants (mostly in the form of diluted urine.) Keep adding mulch as it
disappears. Any weeds that come up will be starved for nitrogen (by the
decomposing mulch) until you get a chance to pull them out. Just toss
them on top to die and go back in the soil eventually.

Let the earthworms till the soil instead of you, and the dormant weed
seeds will stay dormant. You'll probably never have to use the Roundup
again. By the second year, you can probably grow beans and squash and
other direct-sown crops.

Bob

The original post was about Bermuda grass. This stuff is prolific and grows
around and through just about anything you throw at it. It laughs at
compost as an impediment. I've seen a clay pot full of pure, dry sand with
Bermuda sprouting out it. No, it was not rooting in the sand. The Bermuda
crept through the one drainaige hole at the bottom and worked its way to the
top. The pot was sitting on the edge of a concrete slab, the Bermuda crept
up 6" from the ground, then into the pot's bottom. In another similar case,
a pot sitting on a 4" thick flat rock. 16" tall pot. The pot did have soil
in it. Same thing.

I'm ignoring the newsgroup weblink police fanatic. If you look hard enough
on the internet, you will find that pigs can fly. Doesn't mean that I
believe it.


If you remember, in my first post in this thread I recommended moving
:-) (to get rid of Bermuda.) I used to live in Houston, and for a while
in Temple, TX, I know about the stuff. That's why I'd wait until late
spring and spray everything with Roundup one time -- to kill the
perennial grasses.

Bob

"Suzanne D." wrote in message
...

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

I had a 1/4 acre garden when I lived in Texas. (and I used RoundUp to
spot treat the Bermudagrass that kept sneaking in.) It was a huge garden
(IMHO) and was pretty much unmanageable until I discovered drip
irrigation.

Drip irrigation is the best invention, EVER. Because of it, I get to
plant my entire front yard in corn, tomatoes, and cucumbers, and only have
to work about ten minutes a day on it.
--S.

I've had gardens for several years when I lived in Louisiana. My wife is a
type A personality. So, when it come time to do the garden, she's out
there, tilling, and making rows that are on a slant, following the slant of
the property. The water runs right through her ditches, and very little
stops for the plants. Couldn't or wouldn't take in the idea that even rice
paddies are made to stairstep down the mountainsides. I have taken the
second half of the garden, and am about through tilling it now and removing
weeds. But I am making my rows at ninety degrees to hers, and using black
flex pipe with drip irrigation.

So, we'll see whose does the best. Outside the garden, we have about a
dozen trees that have bubblers and moats. Tomorrow, I will put wire around
the entrances for rabbits, and plant melons in the moats where they will be
automatically watered.

Might even put a picture up on flickr for brooklyn1.

or not.

Steve

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
news
"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
brooklyn1 wrote:

I don't believe SteveB has a 2 acre garden, in fact I don't believe he
has any size garden or has ever had any garden, and probably once he
wakes up from his beer fogged trailer trash dream and realizes what
gardening is about he will never have a garden... no one who has a 2
acre garden (that's a farm, folks) would ever ask such questions about
killing grass and weeds with Roundup defolient... a person could feed a
family of four with veggies from the market for two years for the price
of enough Roundup to treat 2 acres. A person can easily feed a family
of four (and two other families of four) veggies all year from a 1/16
acre garden and not pay a cent for any chemicals whatsoever... Steve
couldn't afford to treat a 2 acre garden with H2O. When I read of
people with their claims of 4 1/2 acre and 2 acre gardens (none have
ever posted a photo) I seriously wonder if folks here have any concept
of what's an acre of garden.



He never said he had a 2 acre garden. He said he has 2+ acres and uses
Roundup, and he's getting ready to put in a garden.


He certainly did refer to his 2 acre garden... why would someone mention
2 acres in reference to a garden when they are putting in say a 10' X 10'
plot?!?!? Actually he did say he already has a garden, a "weedy" garden
_"My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know."_ He led folks to believe he
has a 2 acre garden that is all weedy and he was asking if it was okay to
get rid of the weeds in his garden with Roundup... it is quite clear that
his intent was to lead folks to believe he has a weedy 2 acre garden.
Had he truly wanted suggestion about how to weed his garden (which many
offered) an honest person would have said right from the gitgo what size
area (he said 2 acres), otherwise no one could offer help except some
generalizations and mostly wild speculation. Just like the last person
who boasted that she had a 4 1/2 acre garden but when I asked her to post
pictures of her garden she didn't deny it but instead posted pictures of
all sorts of things but none of any garden (probably a neighbor's
property). People on usenet are smarmy, they make all sorts of wildly
exaggerated claims and tell down right lies... very few are who they say
they are. Many of the pictures folks post are not of their garden and/or
not of anything they themselves did. It's easy to post a picture of
someone elses garden, or some landscaper was paid to do and then claim
they did it, and cameras are very portable so anyone can take a shot of a
garden across town, and it's very easy to lift an image off the net...
when someone posts a pictures of fully cropped flowers I wonder where
they stole those images.


You made your point when talking about smaller acreage and affordibility
of Roundup vs. feeding the family. I don't digress. You did just waste
your "breath" though on a point that is really moot from the prior
replying poster.


Sheesh, who made you sole arbiter of what peeps post... your responding to
my post added nothing, whereas yours and you are the total waste... and
obviously you haven't a clue what "digress" means or is your use germaine,
you just inserted the tired overused word self-servingly in hopes of
elevating yourself to a position of importance and superiority, not. I'm
positive you don't have a garden either, never did, never will.... what an
insignicant pinhead your momma bred.

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
news
"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
brooklyn1 wrote:

I don't believe SteveB has a 2 acre garden, in fact I don't believe he
has any size garden or has ever had any garden, and probably once he
wakes up from his beer fogged trailer trash dream and realizes what
gardening is about he will never have a garden... no one who has a 2
acre garden (that's a farm, folks) would ever ask such questions about
killing grass and weeds with Roundup defolient... a person could feed
a family of four with veggies from the market for two years for the
price of enough Roundup to treat 2 acres. A person can easily feed a
family of four (and two other families of four) veggies all year from
a 1/16 acre garden and not pay a cent for any chemicals whatsoever...
Steve couldn't afford to treat a 2 acre garden with H2O. When I read
of people with their claims of 4 1/2 acre and 2 acre gardens (none
have ever posted a photo) I seriously wonder if folks here have any
concept of what's an acre of garden.



He never said he had a 2 acre garden. He said he has 2+ acres and uses
Roundup, and he's getting ready to put in a garden.


He certainly did refer to his 2 acre garden... why would someone mention
2 acres in reference to a garden when they are putting in say a 10' X
10' plot?!?!? Actually he did say he already has a garden, a "weedy"
garden _"My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know."_ He led folks to
believe he has a 2 acre garden that is all weedy and he was asking if it
was okay to get rid of the weeds in his garden with Roundup... it is
quite clear that his intent was to lead folks to believe he has a weedy
2 acre garden. Had he truly wanted suggestion about how to weed his
garden (which many offered) an honest person would have said right from
the gitgo what size area (he said 2 acres), otherwise no one could offer
help except some generalizations and mostly wild speculation. Just
like the last person who boasted that she had a 4 1/2 acre garden but
when I asked her to post pictures of her garden she didn't deny it but
instead posted pictures of all sorts of things but none of any garden
(probably a neighbor's property). People on usenet are smarmy, they
make all sorts of wildly exaggerated claims and tell down right lies...
very few are who they say they are. Many of the pictures folks post are
not of their garden and/or not of anything they themselves did. It's
easy to post a picture of someone elses garden, or some landscaper was
paid to do and then claim they did it, and cameras are very portable so
anyone can take a shot of a garden across town, and it's very easy to
lift an image off the net... when someone posts a pictures of fully
cropped flowers I wonder where they stole those images.


You made your point when talking about smaller acreage and affordibility
of Roundup vs. feeding the family. I don't digress. You did just waste
your "breath" though on a point that is really moot from the prior
replying poster.


Sheesh, who made you sole arbiter of what peeps post... your responding to
my post added nothing, whereas yours and you are the total waste... and
obviously you haven't a clue what "digress" means or is your use germaine,
you just inserted the tired overused word self-servingly in hopes of
elevating yourself to a position of importance and superiority, not. I'm
positive you don't have a garden either, never did, never will.... what an
insignicant pinhead your momma bred.

And it sounds like you're a pimple faced idiot with little real world
experience. Either join in the conversation or STFU.

On second thought, you haven't written anything yet I consider worth
reading, so, it's to the compost pile with you.

bubye

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
news
"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
brooklyn1 wrote:

I don't believe SteveB has a 2 acre garden, in fact I don't believe
he has any size garden or has ever had any garden, and probably once
he wakes up from his beer fogged trailer trash dream and realizes
what gardening is about he will never have a garden... no one who has
a 2 acre garden (that's a farm, folks) would ever ask such questions
about killing grass and weeds with Roundup defolient... a person
could feed a family of four with veggies from the market for two
years for the price of enough Roundup to treat 2 acres. A person can
easily feed a family of four (and two other families of four) veggies
all year from a 1/16 acre garden and not pay a cent for any chemicals
whatsoever... Steve couldn't afford to treat a 2 acre garden with
H2O. When I read of people with their claims of 4 1/2 acre and 2
acre gardens (none have ever posted a photo) I seriously wonder if
folks here have any concept of what's an acre of garden.



He never said he had a 2 acre garden. He said he has 2+ acres and
uses Roundup, and he's getting ready to put in a garden.


He certainly did refer to his 2 acre garden... why would someone
mention 2 acres in reference to a garden when they are putting in say a
10' X 10' plot?!?!? Actually he did say he already has a garden, a
"weedy" garden _"My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it
to plant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know."_ He led
folks to believe he has a 2 acre garden that is all weedy and he was
asking if it was okay to get rid of the weeds in his garden with
Roundup... it is quite clear that his intent was to lead folks to
believe he has a weedy 2 acre garden. Had he truly wanted suggestion
about how to weed his garden (which many offered) an honest person
would have said right from the gitgo what size area (he said 2 acres),
otherwise no one could offer help except some generalizations and
mostly wild speculation. Just like the last person who boasted that
she had a 4 1/2 acre garden but when I asked her to post pictures of
her garden she didn't deny it but instead posted pictures of all sorts
of things but none of any garden (probably a neighbor's property).
People on usenet are smarmy, they make all sorts of wildly exaggerated
claims and tell down right lies... very few are who they say they are.
Many of the pictures folks post are not of their garden and/or not of
anything they themselves did. It's easy to post a picture of someone
elses garden, or some landscaper was paid to do and then claim they did
it, and cameras are very portable so anyone can take a shot of a garden
across town, and it's very easy to lift an image off the net... when
someone posts a pictures of fully cropped flowers I wonder where they
stole those images.


You made your point when talking about smaller acreage and affordibility
of Roundup vs. feeding the family. I don't digress. You did just waste
your "breath" though on a point that is really moot from the prior
replying poster.


Sheesh, who made you sole arbiter of what peeps post... your responding
to my post added nothing, whereas yours and you are the total waste...
and obviously you haven't a clue what "digress" means or is your use
germaine, you just inserted the tired overused word self-servingly in
hopes of elevating yourself to a position of importance and superiority,
not. I'm positive you don't have a garden either, never did, never
will.... what an insignicant pinhead your momma bred.

And it sounds like you're a pimple faced idiot with little real world
experience.bubye

Steve


You found a picture of him online? Share it! :-)

On 5/23/2009 10:11 PM, SteveB wrote:
"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
brooklyn1 wrote:

I don't believe SteveB has a 2 acre garden, in fact I don't believe he
has any size garden or has ever had any garden, and probably once he
wakes up from his beer fogged trailer trash dream and realizes what
gardening is about he will never have a garden... no one who has a 2
acre garden (that's a farm, folks) would ever ask such questions about
killing grass and weeds with Roundup defolient... a person could feed a
family of four with veggies from the market for two years for the price
of enough Roundup to treat 2 acres. A person can easily feed a family
of four (and two other families of four) veggies all year from a 1/16
acre garden and not pay a cent for any chemicals whatsoever... Steve
couldn't afford to treat a 2 acre garden with H2O. When I read of
people with their claims of 4 1/2 acre and 2 acre gardens (none have
ever posted a photo) I seriously wonder if folks here have any concept
of what's an acre of garden.


He never said he had a 2 acre garden. He said he has 2+ acres and uses
Roundup, and he's getting ready to put in a garden.

He certainly did refer to his 2 acre garden... why would someone mention 2
acres in reference to a garden when they are putting in say a 10' X 10'
plot?!?!? Actually he did say he already has a garden, a "weedy" garden
_"My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know."_ He led folks to believe he
has a 2 acre garden that is all weedy and he was asking if it was okay to
get rid of the weeds in his garden with Roundup... it is quite clear that
his intent was to lead folks to believe he has a weedy 2 acre garden. Had
he truly wanted suggestion about how to weed his garden (which many
offered) an honest person would have said right from the gitgo what size
area (he said 2 acres), otherwise no one could offer help except some
generalizations and mostly wild speculation. Just like the last person
who boasted that she had a 4 1/2 acre garden but when I asked her to post
pictures of her garden she didn't deny it but instead posted pictures of
all sorts of things but none of any garden (probably a neighbor's
property). People on usenet are smarmy, they make all sorts of wildly
exaggerated claims and tell down right lies... very few are who they say
they are. Many of the pictures folks post are not of their garden and/or
not of anything they themselves did. It's easy to post a picture of
someone elses garden, or some landscaper was paid to do and then claim
they did it, and cameras are very portable so anyone can take a shot of a
garden across town, and it's very easy to lift an image off the net...
when someone posts a pictures of fully cropped flowers I wonder where they
stole those images.

What have you been sniffing, Roundup? I own two acres, which I spray here
and there for weed control. I am starting a garden, and wanted to spray a
little in there to get ahead of the weeds.

Did you get it that time, Sparky?

Steve



Don't waste time and effort answering. There are a few flamers out
there who insist on always having the last word, replying to everything
but actually reading very little. Use news-reader filters. I do now,
and my blood pressure has returned to normal (about 120/65).

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

In article ,
"SteveB" wrote:

"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
news
"brooklyn1" wrote in message
...

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
brooklyn1 wrote:

I don't believe SteveB has a 2 acre garden, in fact I don't believe he
has any size garden or has ever had any garden, and probably once he
wakes up from his beer fogged trailer trash dream and realizes what
gardening is about he will never have a garden... no one who has a 2
acre garden (that's a farm, folks) would ever ask such questions about
killing grass and weeds with Roundup defolient... a person could feed
a family of four with veggies from the market for two years for the
price of enough Roundup to treat 2 acres. A person can easily feed a
family of four (and two other families of four) veggies all year from
a 1/16 acre garden and not pay a cent for any chemicals whatsoever...
Steve couldn't afford to treat a 2 acre garden with H2O. When I read
of people with their claims of 4 1/2 acre and 2 acre gardens (none
have ever posted a photo) I seriously wonder if folks here have any
concept of what's an acre of garden.



He never said he had a 2 acre garden. He said he has 2+ acres and uses
Roundup, and he's getting ready to put in a garden.


He certainly did refer to his 2 acre garden... why would someone mention
2 acres in reference to a garden when they are putting in say a 10' X
10' plot?!?!? Actually he did say he already has a garden, a "weedy"
garden _"My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know."_ He led folks to
believe he has a 2 acre garden that is all weedy and he was asking if it
was okay to get rid of the weeds in his garden with Roundup... it is
quite clear that his intent was to lead folks to believe he has a weedy
2 acre garden. Had he truly wanted suggestion about how to weed his
garden (which many offered) an honest person would have said right from
the gitgo what size area (he said 2 acres), otherwise no one could offer
help except some generalizations and mostly wild speculation. Just
like the last person who boasted that she had a 4 1/2 acre garden but
when I asked her to post pictures of her garden she didn't deny it but
instead posted pictures of all sorts of things but none of any garden
(probably a neighbor's property). People on usenet are smarmy, they
make all sorts of wildly exaggerated claims and tell down right lies...
very few are who they say they are. Many of the pictures folks post are
not of their garden and/or not of anything they themselves did. It's
easy to post a picture of someone elses garden, or some landscaper was
paid to do and then claim they did it, and cameras are very portable so
anyone can take a shot of a garden across town, and it's very easy to
lift an image off the net... when someone posts a pictures of fully
cropped flowers I wonder where they stole those images.


You made your point when talking about smaller acreage and affordibility
of Roundup vs. feeding the family. I don't digress. You did just waste
your "breath" though on a point that is really moot from the prior
replying poster.


Sheesh, who made you sole arbiter of what peeps post... your responding to
my post added nothing, whereas yours and you are the total waste... and
obviously you haven't a clue what "digress" means or is your use germaine,
you just inserted the tired overused word self-servingly in hopes of
elevating yourself to a position of importance and superiority, not. I'm
positive you don't have a garden either, never did, never will.... what an
insignicant pinhead your momma bred.

And it sounds like you're a pimple faced idiot with little real world
experience. Either join in the conversation or STFU.

On second thought, you haven't written anything yet I consider worth
reading, so, it's to the compost pile with you.

bubye

Steve

Steve,
IIRC you started this thread, so I'll address this to you.

"Mulching will get rid of most weeds, but Bermuda grass and its allies
and bindweed will come up through any mulch, sooner or later, except for
6 overlapping layers of cardboard, covered well beyond the grass border
by heavy black plastic, maintained for at least a year."
--
Organic method primer update: A practical explanation : the how and why
for the beginner and the experience (Conservation gardening and farming)
(Hardcover)
by Bargyla Rateaver (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Organic-method...tion/dp/091596
6018/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243186938&sr=1-1

€ ISBN-10: 0915966018
€ ISBN-13: 978-0915966011

Organic Method Primer UPDATE Copyright® B.& G. Raieaver 1993
Chapter 6 Weeds pg. 93
-----

Looks like you can prep for next year, but this year looks like you have
your work cut-out for you.

Shelly occasionally comes up with useful information but he has almost a
pathological need for self-aggrandizement and/or denigrating posters.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Dioclese wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On May 23, 1:25 pm, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"Suzanne D." wrote in message

...

"Frank" wrote in message
news:631b4004-3cc0-475c-acf5-
4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother
the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect
garden beds at the same time.
_________________________
That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with
cardboard & mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during
the
growing season AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it
decomposes.
Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap...
and a
4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less
than
six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and
till
and rake again, and again. Killing the weeds by smothering or with
chemicals is a total waste of time, labor, and money... there is NO
labor
free gardening. A good deep rototilling will dispatch any
weeds/grass so
that those will never grow again... and NEW weeds are inevitable
forever.
I've been preparing my garden for planting for two days now, I hope to
finish tomorrow and I plan to plant this weekend. Gardening is always
work,
a lot of work.
It was always a lot of work for me too until I read Ruth Stout No-Work
Garden Book 30 years ago, what an eye opener. I just planted this
years crop, took about 5 minutes , just push aside the leaves and
planted the seed and covered it up. No tilling, fertilizing, I didn't
even bother to water, rain is expected soon. (for yield I get about 25
pounds of beans from a 4x8 size area, don't know if that is good or
not). I don't stake tomatoes either.

The secret is just to keep your soil covered with organic material 365
days a year like mother nature does, she'll take care of the rest
(weeding, fertilizing, watering etc)


If I was starting a new garden plot, I would spray one time with Roundup
(actually, probably a generic equivalent) in late spring when the weeds
and grass are growing good. Then that first year I would transplant in
warm season crops like tomatoes and peppers and eggplant, disturbing the
soil as little as possible. Mulch heavily with shredded paper and
leaves and other carbon-rich matter, supplying nitrogen as necessary
just to the plants (mostly in the form of diluted urine.) Keep adding
mulch as it disappears. Any weeds that come up will be starved for
nitrogen (by the decomposing mulch) until you get a chance to pull them
out. Just toss them on top to die and go back in the soil eventually.

Let the earthworms till the soil instead of you, and the dormant weed
seeds will stay dormant. You'll probably never have to use the Roundup
again. By the second year, you can probably grow beans and squash and
other direct-sown crops.

Bob

The original post was about Bermuda grass. This stuff is prolific and
grows around and through just about anything you throw at it. It laughs
at compost as an impediment. I've seen a clay pot full of pure, dry sand
with Bermuda sprouting out it. No, it was not rooting in the sand. The
Bermuda crept through the one drainaige hole at the bottom and worked its
way to the top. The pot was sitting on the edge of a concrete slab, the
Bermuda crept up 6" from the ground, then into the pot's bottom. In
another similar case, a pot sitting on a 4" thick flat rock. 16" tall
pot. The pot did have soil in it. Same thing.

I'm ignoring the newsgroup weblink police fanatic. If you look hard
enough on the internet, you will find that pigs can fly. Doesn't mean
that I believe it.


If you remember, in my first post in this thread I recommended moving :-)
(to get rid of Bermuda.) I used to live in Houston, and for a while in
Temple, TX, I know about the stuff. That's why I'd wait until late spring
and spray everything with Roundup one time -- to kill the perennial
grasses.

Bob

Along with Johnson grass, Bermuda grass is usually the first to reclaim soil
saturated with crude oil. At least that's what I've seen in some of the
old, used up oil fields.
--
Dave

"Suzanne D." wrote in message
...
"brooklyn1" wrote in message news:%YYRl.312
Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap... and
a 4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less
than six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend,
and till and rake again, and again.

Well, no you wouldn't. If you start off by smothering the grasses with
plywood or some other solid surface, then you shouldn't till at all after
that. Tilling will just bring the submerged weed seeds to the surface and
you'll have the same problem over again. It's much better to smother
everything under where you want to plant (letting the old plants rot and
add nutrients to the soil), and then build on top of that to make new,
relatively weed-free soil. This is why I would advocate cardboard instead
of plywood (since cardboard can be left in place to decompose), but the
plywood *IS* a good idea if you can get it and don't mind moving it when
it comes time to plant.


Again, the original subject was Bermuda grass. Not your generic "weed". If
you don't get the vast majority of the roots out of the soil, you might as
well thrown handfuls of Bermuda grass seed.

The major thing I disagree with the prior post is you have to actually use
your hands to aid getting these roots out of the soil. One needs to use a
spading fork or shovel to bring up a big chunk of soil. Then, allow it to
dry. Then, break each chunk down to free all the subsurface plant material.
Then, you can use power tools.

A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass so that those will
never grow again...

A good, deep rototilling will also dredge up dormant weed seeds and bring
them back to life. With my clayey, weedy soil, I have found it infinitely
better to leave the tiller in the garage, and just pile organic stuff on
top of cardboard to make rich, fertile garden plots that are virtually
weed-free.

Again, the subject "weed" is Bermuda grass. It grows right through organic
stackage, wet newspaper, and around solid objects beneath the surface. The
OP did not mention clay soil that I've seen so far, so I don't see the
applicability here. Bermuda grass seeds and germinates that season. Any
remnants are not of any consequence. Timing is what's important, early
spring.
--
Dave