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Old 11-09-2009, 06:42 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape vines
on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply clipped them
back and used the vines for decorative wreaths, because the grapes are
horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and nurture,
to make them produce more palatable fruit? I also have 6 apple trees
which had been untended so long they were nearly crabbed. Six years of
feeding and care have brought them back to nearly perfect producers (I
am strictly organic and don't mind a little discoloration on my apples -
they taste great!).

I realize the cases are different - the apple trees always had the
capability of producing large luscious fruit with proper care. I don't
particularly *need* the grapes or I would buy a few cultivated vines,
I'm just curious. Can wild grapes be persuaded to do the same, or should
I forget it and just keep harvesting the vines for crafts?

Thanks,
Sylvia
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:09 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

PhoenixWench wrote:
I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape vines
on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply clipped them
back and used the vines for decorative wreaths, because the grapes are
horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and nurture,
to make them produce more palatable fruit? I also have 6 apple trees
which had been untended so long they were nearly crabbed. Six years of
feeding and care have brought them back to nearly perfect producers (I
am strictly organic and don't mind a little discoloration on my apples -
they taste great!).

I realize the cases are different - the apple trees always had the
capability of producing large luscious fruit with proper care. I don't
particularly *need* the grapes or I would buy a few cultivated vines,
I'm just curious. Can wild grapes be persuaded to do the same, or should
I forget it and just keep harvesting the vines for crafts?

Thanks,
Sylvia


Just a guess but I'm thinking your vines will never get any better. You
could use the grapes for making jelly though.
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:40 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

George Shirley wrote:
PhoenixWench wrote:
I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape
vines on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply
clipped them back and used the vines for decorative wreaths, because
the grapes are horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and
nurture, to make them produce more palatable fruit? I also have 6
apple trees which had been untended so long they were nearly crabbed.
Six years of feeding and care have brought them back to nearly perfect
producers (I am strictly organic and don't mind a little discoloration
on my apples - they taste great!).

I realize the cases are different - the apple trees always had the
capability of producing large luscious fruit with proper care. I don't
particularly *need* the grapes or I would buy a few cultivated vines,
I'm just curious. Can wild grapes be persuaded to do the same, or
should I forget it and just keep harvesting the vines for crafts?

Thanks,
Sylvia


Just a guess but I'm thinking your vines will never get any better. You
could use the grapes for making jelly though.


Or vinegar. Maybe first try to make some wine, and if still tart,
leave it open for fermenting into vinegar. I would do it for fun.

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Old 11-09-2009, 08:48 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

PhoenixWench wrote:

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and nurture,
to make them produce more palatable fruit?


Not really without cross pollinating it with a palatable strain of
grapes. Some of the next generation seeds from a cross pollination
will produce a hybrid which may be tastier. Sow the seeds of the
tastier hybrid and you get a cultivar which may and may not be
significantly tastier. Who knows... ? It's all fun to experiment.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:50 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

PhoenixWench wrote:
I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape vines
on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply clipped them
back and used the vines for decorative wreaths, because the grapes are
horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and nurture,
to make them produce more palatable fruit? I also have 6 apple trees
which had been untended so long they were nearly crabbed. Six years of
feeding and care have brought them back to nearly perfect producers (I
am strictly organic and don't mind a little discoloration on my apples -
they taste great!).

I realize the cases are different - the apple trees always had the
capability of producing large luscious fruit with proper care. I don't
particularly *need* the grapes or I would buy a few cultivated vines,
I'm just curious. Can wild grapes be persuaded to do the same, or should
I forget it and just keep harvesting the vines for crafts?

Thanks,
Sylvia



With proper pruning and feeding, you can probably get a much bigger
crop... of sour grapes. :-) That's not totally a bad thing because tart
grapes make better jelly than sweet ones.

Bob


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Old 12-09-2009, 01:05 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:42:00 -0400, PhoenixWench
wrote:

I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape vines
on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply clipped them
back and used the vines for decorative wreaths, because the grapes are
horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and nurture,
to make them produce more palatable fruit? I also have 6 apple trees
which had been untended so long they were nearly crabbed. Six years of
feeding and care have brought them back to nearly perfect producers (I
am strictly organic and don't mind a little discoloration on my apples -
they taste great!).

I realize the cases are different - the apple trees always had the
capability of producing large luscious fruit with proper care. I don't
particularly *need* the grapes or I would buy a few cultivated vines,
I'm just curious. Can wild grapes be persuaded to do the same, or should
I forget it and just keep harvesting the vines for crafts?

Thanks,
Sylvia


Hi Sylvia,

Some areas of our property are overrun with wild grape vines. The more
you try to cut them back, the more they seem to grow. So, we have
tried reaping some benefit from them. We've tried using the fruit for
jelly and, it does make very nice jelly. I've also used the dried
vines for smoking meat. Gerry has used them for making wreaths but,
she hasn't been doing much in the crafts area for a few years.
However, the jelly is a now secondary benefit for us. We really enjoy
Dolmades and the wild grape leaves work wonderfully. We are also
organic so there's no problem with using the leaves. Simply harvest
them in late Spring or early Summer. You can use them right away and
also preserve them for use throughout the year.
If you're interested in this type of thing, I just did a quick search
on Google and came up with this: http://tinyurl.com/mpxvre
Oh, I almost forgot your question. If you go ahead with your effort to
improve them, I think the absolute best you can expect is perhaps
slightly bigger fruit but, I'm willing to bet it'll be just as tart.
BTW, do you know how to tell when the wild grapes are ripe?
It's when the bird droppings on the hood and windshield of your
vehicle stain it dark purple ;-).

Ross.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:08 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

"PhoenixWench" wrote in message
...

I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape vines
on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply clipped them
back and used the vines for decorative wreaths, because the grapes are
horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and nurture,
to make them produce more palatable fruit?


This kind of question is exactly why the NY Ag. Extension Dept.
was created more than a century ago . . .

The answer is: probably not. Ontario producers fiddled with
native grapes for 50 years before giving up, removing all, and
replanting with French or German vines.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)


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Old 12-09-2009, 06:29 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 24
Default Wild grape question

Don Phillipson wrote:

"PhoenixWench" wrote in message
...

I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape
vines on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply
clipped them back and used the vines for decorative wreaths,
because the grapes are horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and
nurture, to make them produce more palatable fruit?


This kind of question is exactly why the NY Ag. Extension Dept.
was created more than a century ago . . .

The answer is: probably not. Ontario producers fiddled with
native grapes for 50 years before giving up, removing all, and
replanting with French or German vines.


Depends on what you mean. Varieties created from native grapes are
widely used, especially Concords.




Brian

--
Day 222 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:44 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Aug 2009
Posts: 9
Default Wild grape question

wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:42:00 -0400, PhoenixWench
wrote:

I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape vines
on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply clipped them
back and used the vines for decorative wreaths, because the grapes are
horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and nurture,
to make them produce more palatable fruit? I also have 6 apple trees
which had been untended so long they were nearly crabbed. Six years of
feeding and care have brought them back to nearly perfect producers (I
am strictly organic and don't mind a little discoloration on my apples -
they taste great!).

I realize the cases are different - the apple trees always had the
capability of producing large luscious fruit with proper care. I don't
particularly *need* the grapes or I would buy a few cultivated vines,
I'm just curious. Can wild grapes be persuaded to do the same, or should
I forget it and just keep harvesting the vines for crafts?

Thanks,
Sylvia


Hi Sylvia,

Some areas of our property are overrun with wild grape vines. The more
you try to cut them back, the more they seem to grow. So, we have
tried reaping some benefit from them. We've tried using the fruit for
jelly and, it does make very nice jelly. I've also used the dried
vines for smoking meat. Gerry has used them for making wreaths but,
she hasn't been doing much in the crafts area for a few years.
However, the jelly is a now secondary benefit for us. We really enjoy
Dolmades and the wild grape leaves work wonderfully. We are also
organic so there's no problem with using the leaves. Simply harvest
them in late Spring or early Summer. You can use them right away and
also preserve them for use throughout the year.
If you're interested in this type of thing, I just did a quick search
on Google and came up with this:
http://tinyurl.com/mpxvre
Oh, I almost forgot your question. If you go ahead with your effort to
improve them, I think the absolute best you can expect is perhaps
slightly bigger fruit but, I'm willing to bet it'll be just as tart.
BTW, do you know how to tell when the wild grapes are ripe?
It's when the bird droppings on the hood and windshield of your
vehicle stain it dark purple ;-).

Ross.

ROFL - yeah - that sounds about right ;-)
OK, saved all this for future reference. I may try feeding them so the
birds and wildlife can enjoy more bigger grapes down the road. I might
try making jam in a couple years, too, when there are enough. And I love
dolmades, so you just answered one unspoken question. Since I garden
organically they are clean, so I see Greek dinners in my future. Thanks!!!

--
Sylvia
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:05 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question


"PhoenixWench" wrote in message
...

OK, saved all this for future reference. I may try feeding them so the
birds and wildlife can enjoy more bigger grapes down the road. I might try
making jam in a couple years, too, when there are enough. And I love
dolmades, so you just answered one unspoken question. Since I garden
organically they are clean, so I see Greek dinners in my future. Thanks!!!


I have similar questions about my grape vines which produce small, seedy
grapes that don't have a lot of flavor. We LOVE Greek food, so every year I
get a couple of good cannings of grape leaves off of them! To me, the main
crop is the leaves, while the grapes are just fun for the kids to nibble on
when they are playing outside. Perhaps next year we will have enough to
make jelly or wine, but the juice extracting process is so tedious that I
will probably just stick to the leaves.
--S.



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Old 13-09-2009, 01:43 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:44:07 -0400, PhoenixWench
wrote:

ROFL - yeah - that sounds about right ;-)
OK, saved all this for future reference. I may try feeding them so the
birds and wildlife can enjoy more bigger grapes down the road. I might
try making jam in a couple years, too, when there are enough. And I love
dolmades, so you just answered one unspoken question. Since I garden
organically they are clean, so I see Greek dinners in my future. Thanks!!!


Gerry just reminded me of another use for the grape leaves. She always
puts one in the bottom of the jar along with a head of dill when we
make dill pickles. It is supposed to keep the pickles crisp and ours
are always quite crisp so they probably do something.

Ross.
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Old 13-09-2009, 02:00 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question


wrote in message
...

Gerry just reminded me of another use for the grape leaves. She always
puts one in the bottom of the jar along with a head of dill when we
make dill pickles. It is supposed to keep the pickles crisp and ours
are always quite crisp so they probably do something.


I did that, but it didn't work. Bummer.
--S.

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Old 13-09-2009, 07:54 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

PhoenixWench wrote:
I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape vines
on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply clipped them
back and used the vines for decorative wreaths, because the grapes are
horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and nurture,
to make them produce more palatable fruit? I also have 6 apple trees
which had been untended so long they were nearly crabbed. Six years of
feeding and care have brought them back to nearly perfect producers (I
am strictly organic and don't mind a little discoloration on my apples -
they taste great!).

I realize the cases are different - the apple trees always had the
capability of producing large luscious fruit with proper care. I don't
particularly *need* the grapes or I would buy a few cultivated vines,
I'm just curious. Can wild grapes be persuaded to do the same, or should
I forget it and just keep harvesting the vines for crafts?

Thanks,
Sylvia



With proper pruning and feeding, you can probably get a much bigger
crop... of sour grapes. :-) That's not totally a bad thing because tart
grapes make better jelly than sweet ones.

Bob


I'm with Bob on this. When the vines go dormant, prune and leave no more
than 24 buds. Native grapes haven't appealed to wine drinkers, in
general, so I would recommend the fresh fruit, jelly, and dolma route
with these vines.
--
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm
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Old 16-09-2009, 09:02 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Wild grape question

In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

PhoenixWench wrote:
I live in the Catskills, zone 5, and there were several wild grape vines
on the property when I moved in. Up till now I have simply clipped them
back and used the vines for decorative wreaths, because the grapes are
horrendously tart.

What I was wondering is whether it is possible, by feeding and nurture,
to make them produce more palatable fruit? I also have 6 apple trees
which had been untended so long they were nearly crabbed. Six years of
feeding and care have brought them back to nearly perfect producers (I
am strictly organic and don't mind a little discoloration on my apples -
they taste great!).

I realize the cases are different - the apple trees always had the
capability of producing large luscious fruit with proper care. I don't
particularly *need* the grapes or I would buy a few cultivated vines,
I'm just curious. Can wild grapes be persuaded to do the same, or should
I forget it and just keep harvesting the vines for crafts?

Thanks,
Sylvia



With proper pruning and feeding, you can probably get a much bigger
crop... of sour grapes. :-) That's not totally a bad thing because tart
grapes make better jelly than sweet ones.

Bob


Agreed. The wild mustang grapes around here are very tart, and make
amazing jelly...
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein


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