mj wrote:
On Sep 17, 1:37 pm, mj wrote:
On Sep 17, 7:47 am, phorbin wrote:

In article 0a2ea65d-b4a5-40f7-ba3d-
, says...
Yes, why is it that everyone thinks that if you grow in hydroponics it
must be pot?
The original post asked for advice on growing "killer marijuana"
That would be "killer marijuana Hydro"
I don't get your point.
MJ

How does that answer my question?

The OP, specifically mention marijuana. You are commenting on an
inference that wasn't being made here.

With that said, it would seem to me that the value of the crop must
exceed the cost of growing it. No doubt why there are few hydroponic
squash growers.

Jeff


MJ

"jeff" wrote in message
...
mj wrote:
On Sep 17, 1:37 pm, mj wrote:
On Sep 17, 7:47 am, phorbin wrote:

In article 0a2ea65d-b4a5-40f7-ba3d-
,
says...


it would seem to me that the value of the crop must exceed the cost of
growing it. No doubt why there are few hydroponic squash growers.

Jeff


A logical premise, yet hydroponics can be very cost effective and need not
be expensive.

For sure, a bit more than sticking a seed in a hole in the ground and
hoping it grows.

Most cases, hydro foods are much easier to grow; using much less water to
grow much more food on much less acreage.

Definitely less labor, plus the cost of nutes is controllable & you get
better pest control.

As for squash growing? done quite often, mostly outdoors:
http://www.hos.ufl.edu/protectedag/p...babysquash.pdf
an old AG study on baby squash production.

gunner wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
...
mj wrote:
On Sep 17, 1:37 pm, mj wrote:
On Sep 17, 7:47 am, phorbin wrote:

In article 0a2ea65d-b4a5-40f7-ba3d-
,
says...

it would seem to me that the value of the crop must exceed the cost of
growing it. No doubt why there are few hydroponic squash growers.

Jeff


A logical premise, yet hydroponics can be very cost effective and need not
be expensive.

For sure, a bit more than sticking a seed in a hole in the ground and
hoping it grows.

Most cases, hydro foods are much easier to grow; using much less water to
grow much more food on much less acreage.

It almost looks like an extension of drip irrigation, which many here
(including myself) are using. The difference being the soil less medium
and recycling the water. It also appears to me that hydroponics is
almost exclusively done indoors such as in a greenhouse. I imagine this
is to keep from contaminating the system and the fact that the plants
have to be elevated to recover the nutrients and fluid.

So, it looks to be a wise choice for greenhouse gardening and a step
too far for those of us in the great outdoors. Do I misread that?

Jeff


Definitely less labor, plus the cost of nutes is controllable & you get
better pest control.

As for squash growing? done quite often, mostly outdoors:
http://www.hos.ufl.edu/protectedag/p...babysquash.pdf
an old AG study on baby squash production.

jeff wrote:
A logical premise, yet hydroponics can be very cost effective and
need not be expensive.

For sure, a bit more than sticking a seed in a hole in the ground
and hoping it grows.

Most cases, hydro foods are much easier to grow; using much less
water to grow much more food on much less acreage.

It almost looks like an extension of drip irrigation, which many
here (including myself) are using. The difference being the soil less
medium and recycling the water. It also appears to me that
hydroponics is almost exclusively done indoors such as in a
greenhouse.


Not so. There are commercial setups with waist-high troughs outdoors that
grow greens on a large scale. But this is in a more temperate climate than
most of north america or europe.

I imagine this is to keep from contaminating the system
and the fact that the plants have to be elevated to recover the
nutrients and fluid.

In the trough system the nutrient flows down the trough which is on a slight
slope, this could be done a few inches off the ground but it is up high for
ease of access without stooping. Labour is a significant component of cost
in the fresh produce market.

So, it looks to be a wise choice for greenhouse gardening and a step
too far for those of us in the great outdoors. Do I misread that?

Jeff

It's a completely different view of the growing world, different skills
required, different costs. I am not so sure about it being inexpensive
although it may be cost effective. Hydroponic lettuces only work because
people will pay high prices in the supermarket for nice fresh produce so it
may be effective to set up hydro systems on crap soil where you would have
to do much work to improve the soil if it keeps up freshness and down
transport costs. Also there are some crops which are not really suited to
hydro, I cannot see pumpkins being very cost effective for example.

David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
jeff wrote:


It almost looks like an extension of drip irrigation, which many
here (including myself) are using. The difference being the soil less
medium and recycling the water. It also appears to me that
hydroponics is almost exclusively done indoors such as in a
greenhouse.

Not so. There are commercial setups with waist-high troughs outdoors that
grow greens on a large scale. But this is in a more temperate climate
than most of north america or europe.

I imagine this is to keep from contaminating the system
and the fact that the plants have to be elevated to recover the
nutrients and fluid.

In the trough system the nutrient flows down the trough which is on a
slight slope, this could be done a few inches off the ground but it is up
high for ease of access without stooping. Labour is a significant
component of cost in the fresh produce market.

So, it looks to be a wise choice for greenhouse gardening and a step
too far for those of us in the great outdoors. Do I misread that?

Jeff

It's a completely different view of the growing world, different skills
required, different costs. I am not so sure about it being inexpensive
although it may be cost effective. Hydroponic lettuces only work because
people will pay high prices in the supermarket for nice fresh produce so
it may be effective to set up hydro systems on crap soil where you would
have to do much work to improve the soil if it keeps up freshness and down
transport costs. Also there are some crops which are not really suited to
hydro, I cannot see pumpkins being very cost effective for example.

David


Good points, but realize I am very pro Hydro so I have a different view
than most and disagree with some points here. It certainly is not for the
"back in my day" crowd. IMO, The article link below
is demonstrative of how folks seems to have an associative problem of
cannibis with hydroponics:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...26/2502236.htm which tend to
diminish exploration of the field and its real value to food production.

That aside, I don't wish to argue pros and cons of cannibis, just
hydroponics. Agreed It is a bit different skill set, but the goals are the
same, grow a quality product with the least energy/resources.

Speaking as a hobby vice commerical units, Hydroponics can be as expensive
as you make it. I have systems that I've made from spare parts and a few
dollars. This is plans of one I made in the early 90s and we still use for
lettuce: http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/11plan01.htm . Presently, I am
building an a 24 position Aeroponics unit for strawberries that will cost ~
$70 when complete. But if you got the $$s, go buy one or two of the
high priced units and help stimulate the economy. Terribly overpriced.

Here is a link of hydroponic examples:
http://images.google.com/images?sour...title&resnum=4

or http://tinyurl.com/l6labq

If you like videos, try Youtube:
lettuce production :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHBhyqowSEc .
But you can grow raft lettuce or herbs in your kitchen using an old
aquarium, a piece of styrofoam and air pump, add a light ( i.e. a CFL) or
two and you can do it all year long.

(look at the right hand side of Youtube to view more hydro examples).

There are so many methods and setups to use that tinkers have a really good
time with this hobby. Raft, Ebb and Flow, DWC, Wick, Drip, Aeroponics,
Fog, Aquaponics, open and closed systems, using perilite, vermicilate, clay
pellets, rockwool, coir, gravel, sand, bark.... Nowdays, it is a huge
commerical industry and we have NASA and many Research Scientists leading
the way forward to the future

In our future, we will incorporate Hydroponics into
kitchen appliance food productions units, i.e. the Electrolux Vege:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/6668/picture/30202/
as well as office building and green rooftop farms with similiar approachs
as this example:
http://dvice.com/archives/2008/03/an_apartment_bu.php .
another: the Easy Food factory:
http://www.instructables.com/id/SI8ZBBKFSH7EF28/.

So rather than spend time limiting application , I ask folks to spend the
energy expanding its application. So.....

If any doubts as to it growing size read this:
http://www.actahort.org/members/show...oknrarnr=742_3

As to Outdoor Hydro use? Hydro is great for our vast arid conditions we
have in the Western US, as well as throughout the temperate SE as well.
It is much more common than one realizes here in North America. In an
outdoor example, it is subject to the same weather/environmental conditions
as conventional crops except for water and nutrient feeding ( big bonus!).
Some can be on the ground ( run to waste, a sump tank, and/or using pumps),
most are elevated (good thing for me) but this really is not for protecting
the nutrients from contaminations.

There are many ways to extend seasons without a greenhouse, chances improve
however when you provide a simple shade cloth. So, no, I do not think it a
step too far for great outdoors types. I run both but that is to save
electricity in the short summer we get.

I can't agree that Hydro lettuce only works becasue people will pay high
prices for it.I don't see hydro and organic lettuces with much different
price points now days and only seasonal difference with field lettuce.
Maybe some can recall the year that TX, FL and CA all had weather problems
and limited crops so we relied on Mexican tomatoes and the hothouse biz.?
I think you will see more repeats of that in the future. Then we had the
wild hog contaminating fields. So hydro systems are much easier to control
from a Food Secuity aspect.

As for pumpkins? maybe not be as cost effective as putting seeds in the
ground and waiting , yet squash production is still very do-able and
profitable besides as I said, food security aspects are a great
consideration these days, as exampled he

Pumpkin shortage:
http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/sm...late&GT1=33009
or
http://tinyurl.com/lovsk3

BTW, there are now Organic Hydroponic crops for those still hung up on
terminology and short on science.