http://www.alternet.org/story/149150...ht_on_mysterio
us_bee_die-offs_and_who%27s_to_blame/?page=entire

I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are implicated.

You'll need to fix the URL.

"phorbin" wrote in message
...
http://www.alternet.org/story/149150...ht_on_mysterio
us_bee_die-offs_and_who%27s_to_blame/?page=entire

I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are implicated.

You'll need to fix the URL.

http://www.alternet.org/story/149150...e/?page=entire

mike

On 12/14/10 8:37 AM, sometime in the recent past phorbin posted this:
http://www.alternet.org/story/149150...ht_on_mysterio
us_bee_die-offs_and_who%27s_to_blame/?page=entire

I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are implicated.

You'll need to fix the URL.
An article from this last May says that banning 'neonicotinoids' in several
countries has shown bee populations rebounding - see http://bit.ly/aoSaaq

It states that following a ban on the pesticide group by France & Germany,
"last year the Italian Agriculture Ministry suspended the use of a class of
pesticides, nicotine-based neonicotinoids, as a "precautionary measure." The
compelling results - restored bee populations - prompted the government to
uphold the ban."

The seeds are treated and then the pesticide is systemic in the plant - now
there's real economy. 'Roundup ready' food anyone.

As a "precautionary measure." But not here in the US, not if it could cause
the restriction of the pesticide industries ability to profit. We'll never
hurt an industry as part of a 'precautionary measure.' We will always err on
the side of profit.

Watch this trailer http://pierreterre.com/video/nicotine-bees-trailer and
then write your congress person. Emails are good, but a letter can work wonders.

'Follow the money.' - Deepthroat

--
Wilson 44.69, -67.3

phorbin wrote:
http://www.alternet.org/story/149150...ht_on_mysterio
us_bee_die-offs_and_who%27s_to_blame/?page=entire

I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are
implicated.

You'll need to fix the URL.

For some reason this does not surprise me.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
"Bloke Down The Pub" wrote:

"phorbin" wrote in message
...
http://www.alternet.org/story/149150...ht_on_mysterio
us_bee_die-offs_and_who%27s_to_blame/?page=entire

I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are implicated.

You'll need to fix the URL.

http://www.alternet.org/story/149150...mysterious_bee
_die-offs_and_who%27s_to_blame/?page=entire

mike

http://thurly.net/0g8h

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

"Always tell the truth and you don't have to remember anything."
--Mark Twain.

On Dec 14, 5:37 am, phorbin wrote:
I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are implicated.


Mysterious Bee Die-Offs. Bayer? Really?

I hate to ruin a good Murder Mystery by giving the ending.....but the
Evil Corporate Empire didn't do it in this exciting episode. But
on the surface it does appear to be a good attempt on the writer's
part for yet another conspiracy theory implication, especially with
Wikileak so recent.......sounds so convinving. Hopefully those here
do not operate on supposition.


Scientists and Soldiers Solve a Bee Mystery
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/science/07bees.html

Study Abstract:

Iridovirus and Microsporidian Linked to Honey Bee Colony Decline
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0013181

In article 47c547ae-ee57-48d5-8727-a358ca3ff237@
37g2000prx.googlegroups.com, says...
On Dec 14, 5:37 am, phorbin wrote:
I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are implicated.


Mysterious Bee Die-Offs. Bayer? Really?

I hate to ruin a good Murder Mystery by giving the ending.....but the
Evil Corporate Empire didn't do it in this exciting episode. But
on the surface it does appear to be a good attempt on the writer's
part for yet another conspiracy theory implication, especially with
Wikileak so recent.......sounds so convinving. Hopefully those here
do not operate on supposition.

Bayer's products are implicated as are the neonicotinoids manufactured
by other companies. That is a fact, not supposition.

I've yet to track it all down but reports of restored bee populations in
parts of Europe that have neonicotinoid bans make a compelling argument
for the empire being evil.

On Dec 17, 8:33*pm, phorbin wrote:
In article 47c547ae-ee57-48d5-8727-a358ca3ff237@
37g2000prx.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 14, 5:37 am, phorbin wrote:
I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are implicated.

Mysterious Bee Die-Offs. *Bayer? *Really?

I hate to ruin a good Murder Mystery by giving the ending.....but the
Evil Corporate Empire didn't do it in this exciting episode. * *But
on the surface it does appear to be a good attempt on the writer's
part for yet another conspiracy theory implication, especially with
Wikileak so recent.......sounds so convinving. *Hopefully those here
do not operate on supposition.

Bayer's products are implicated as are the neonicotinoids manufactured
by other companies. That is a fact, not supposition.

I've yet to track it all down but reports of restored bee populations in
parts of Europe that have neonicotinoid bans make a compelling argument
for the empire being evil.

Sorry Phorb, bring implicated is not a fact. As for a "compelling
argument", your a bit correct.... it is an argument. Just not a very
good one in light of all the scientific lit. out there.

You will never agree, but that article was a poorly written fluff
piece, filler chaff on some eco blog, designed to keep the masses to
stay on message. Yet do note she glossed right over the evil email
by giving nothing but a date, no facts, just straight to the same
propaganda that has become the mantra of the Eco world. The Russians
called it disinformation. Palin calls it Fox News.

On 12/19/10 10:52 AM, sometime in the recent past Gunner posted this:
On Dec 17, 8:33 pm, wrote:
In article47c547ae-ee57-48d5-8727-a358ca3ff237@
37g2000prx.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 14, 5:37 am, wrote:
I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are implicated.
snip

There are a lot of times when I remain unconvinced of things others are
adamant about. The truth isn't necessarily going to come from an
inarticulate person, but it has. It isn't going to be found in a well
written scientific treatise with plenty of empirical evidence fully
referenced, but it has. But that same treatise has been at times a vehicle
for an agenda, be it commercial or political twisting the truth to suit
their purpose.

So much of the time, without absolute proof something we are doing is
causing a harm, we continue that practice until moved by greater forces, by
which time it's too late. Waiting for proof is an impractical luxury,
especially with something so fundamental to our existence as pollination.

Why not err on the side of caution once in a while? There is only one
urgency to do otherwise and that's the urgency of greed.

Other than that, you have a Merry Christmas and may God bless you with your
own private epiphany. 'Where theirs life, there's hope.'

--
Wilson 44.69, -67.3

In article 5371e4de-e04c-43d9-ba00-
, says...
On Dec 17, 8:33*pm, phorbin wrote:
In article 47c547ae-ee57-48d5-8727-a358ca3ff237@
37g2000prx.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 14, 5:37 am, phorbin wrote:
I started with OT because Bayer and other usual suspects are implicated.

Mysterious Bee Die-Offs. *Bayer? *Really?

I hate to ruin a good Murder Mystery by giving the ending.....but the
Evil Corporate Empire didn't do it in this exciting episode. * *But
on the surface it does appear to be a good attempt on the writer's
part for yet another conspiracy theory implication, especially with
Wikileak so recent.......sounds so convinving. *Hopefully those here
do not operate on supposition.

Bayer's products are implicated as are the neonicotinoids manufactured
by other companies. That is a fact, not supposition.

I've yet to track it all down but reports of restored bee populations in
parts of Europe that have neonicotinoid bans make a compelling argument
for the empire being evil.

Sorry Phorb, bring implicated is not a fact. As for a "compelling
argument", your a bit correct.... it is an argument. Just not a very
good one in light of all the scientific lit. out there.

Shrug. You're welcome to your opinion.

You will never agree, but that article was a poorly written fluff
piece, filler chaff on some eco blog, designed to keep the masses to
stay on message. Yet do note she glossed right over the evil email
by giving nothing but a date, no facts, just straight to the same
propaganda that has become the mantra of the Eco world. The Russians
called it disinformation. Palin calls it Fox News.

Again, you're welcome to your opinion.

I don't give Palin, who is a fascist and religious extremist, any
credibility beyond being one of the public faces of the greatest
internal threat to America, btw.

I don't give Palin, who is a fascist and religious extremist, any
credibility beyond being one of the public faces of the greatest
internal threat to America, btw.

Ahh, so you do understand. Extremist propraganda takes many justified
forms doesn't it. BTW I do believe the bee folks are and have been
using using a miticide, wonder who they are getting that from?

I also meant to thank you for using OT.

Wilson, I'm sure you meant all you wrote with the purest intention and
so I thank you, expecially for not going the ad hominem route. Yet,
your post is just so much philosophical ambiguity (with religious
overtures) to even address w/o sounding like the Grinch. So as for a
response, just take your pick from the link below. I think you got
the gist of a good many of them in that last.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Fin...oney_Detection


I think "Why" is really the heart of your question, yes? more
specifically why not err on the good side? one can even ask why ask
why when we know our side seeks the greater cause? A mini version of
the end justifies the means. Most here know of the study that says
over half of the population will not change their opinion, even in the
face of contridictory information, but that should never stop one from
seeking facts and well formed information. A valid argument can stand
on its own merits....... or not.

So again... the two articles show little to no proof that nicotine
pesticides caused CCD. also the timelines do not matchup. Pesticides
as a whole are a stressor for sure as cited in the many CCD
references (again, don't recall that Nicotone was one of the orginal
conspiracy theories, seems that just came up later as the dogpile got
bigger). So no one is saying pesticides are cool, but perpetuating
propaganda is not the correct option either. Both your previous link
as well as Phorbin's are a bit lacking in any merit to say Mysterious
Bee Die-Off (CCD) is caused by Bayer and others. I do have to say the
comments to them however were quite enlightening. Most likely
indicative of the intended audience. But in taking sides, one has to
be the enemy, right? That seems always to be the on the other side of
your beliefs.


I also thank you for your season greeting and your concern. Know I
have had many an epiphany, just probably not your version.
So a very joyous holiday season to you also Wilson.

Gunner

"As man is, so is his God. And thus is God oft strangely odd." Goethe

On 12/20/10 3:51 PM, sometime in the recent past Gunner posted this:
Wilson, I'm sure you meant all you wrote with the purest intention and
so I thank you, expecially for not going the ad hominem route. Yet,
your post is just so much philosophical ambiguity (with religious
overtures) to even address w/o sounding like the Grinch. So as for a
response, just take your pick from the link below. I think you got
the gist of a good many of them in that last.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Fin...oney_Detection


I think "Why" is really the heart of your question, yes? more
specifically why not err on the good side? one can even ask why ask
why when we know our side seeks the greater cause? A mini version of
the end justifies the means. Most here know of the study that says
over half of the population will not change their opinion, even in the
face of contridictory information, but that should never stop one from
seeking facts and well formed information. A valid argument can stand
on its own merits....... or not.

So again... the two articles show little to no proof that nicotine
pesticides caused CCD. also the timelines do not matchup. Pesticides
as a whole are a stressor for sure as cited in the many CCD
references (again, don't recall that Nicotone was one of the orginal
conspiracy theories, seems that just came up later as the dogpile got
bigger). So no one is saying pesticides are cool, but perpetuating
propaganda is not the correct option either. Both your previous link
as well as Phorbin's are a bit lacking in any merit to say Mysterious
Bee Die-Off (CCD) is caused by Bayer and others. I do have to say the
comments to them however were quite enlightening. Most likely
indicative of the intended audience. But in taking sides, one has to
be the enemy, right? That seems always to be the on the other side of
your beliefs.


I also thank you for your season greeting and your concern. Know I
have had many an epiphany, just probably not your version.
So a very joyous holiday season to you also Wilson.

Gunner

"As man is, so is his God. And thus is God oft strangely odd." Goethe
Thank you, Gunner. As you pointed it out before, I did look at the 'Fine are
of Baloney Detection.' I didn't try to offer anything other than my
philosophical PoV simply for expediency and the fact that more tangible
truths are hard to find.

A wonderful Holiday Season to you and yours again.

--
Wilson 44.69, -67.3

Sometimes one word is too many and a thousand are not enough.

There are a lot of time, I'm still not convinced other people's stuff
Adhere to anything. This is not necessarily to come from a
Inarticulate people, but it succeeded.