Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake, I've yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a foot down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard packed.
Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I don't want to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake, I've yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a foot down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard packed.
Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I don't want to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that is
already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp looking
boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or all
steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat.... Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake, I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a foot down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard packed.
Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I don't want to
break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that is
already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp looking
boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or all
steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat.... Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw two good
ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With two handles, but I
wasn't sure it would break or not.

"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake,
I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a foot
down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard packed.
Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I don't want
to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that is
already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp
looking boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or
all steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat....
Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw two
good ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With two
handles, but I wasn't sure it would break or not.





I bought a Wilkinsons spade a few years ago when I started gardening.
It has a tubular metal shaft and have used it like a crowbar to lift
large roots from trees I have felled and it is as good as new. I have put
all my weight into it, bounced on it. Still as new.
If you buy a spade like this, make sure it is all one piece and not
joined with rivets if it is going to take the work I describe.
A fork is different, as you know, because it does not matter how strong
the shaft is, the tines will bend with too much pressure.

Baz

"Baz" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake,
I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a foot
down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard packed.
Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I don't want
to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that is
already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp
looking boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or
all steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat....
Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw two
good ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With two
handles, but I wasn't sure it would break or not.





I bought a Wilkinsons spade a few years ago when I started gardening.
It has a tubular metal shaft and have used it like a crowbar to lift
large roots from trees I have felled and it is as good as new. I have put
all my weight into it, bounced on it. Still as new.
If you buy a spade like this, make sure it is all one piece and not
joined with rivets if it is going to take the work I describe.
A fork is different, as you know, because it does not matter how strong
the shaft is, the tines will bend with too much pressure.

Baz





It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down and
turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.

"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Baz" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake,
I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a
foot down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard
packed. Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I
don't want to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that
is already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp
looking boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or
all steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat....
Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw
two good ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With two
handles, but I wasn't sure it would break or not.





I bought a Wilkinsons spade a few years ago when I started gardening.
It has a tubular metal shaft and have used it like a crowbar to lift
large roots from trees I have felled and it is as good as new. I have
put all my weight into it, bounced on it. Still as new.
If you buy a spade like this, make sure it is all one piece and not
joined with rivets if it is going to take the work I describe.
A fork is different, as you know, because it does not matter how
strong the shaft is, the tines will bend with too much pressure.

Baz





It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down
and turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.



So you have clay soil? I would go for a metal shafted set of tools if
they are going to last you out. You can buy them for a fiver each at
discount stores in UK, such as Poundstretcher, my fork is from there and
its as strong as I need it to be.
Do you need to go a foot deep, all over, at once? Hard work.
You could just dig that deep for root veg this year and with rotation,
next year do the same and so on until the whole plot is done......
.....then start again.

Baz

Baz wrote:
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Baz" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake,
I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a
foot down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard
packed. Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I
don't want to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that
is already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp
looking boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or
all steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat....
Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw
two good ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With two
handles, but I wasn't sure it would break or not.





I bought a Wilkinsons spade a few years ago when I started gardening.
It has a tubular metal shaft and have used it like a crowbar to lift
large roots from trees I have felled and it is as good as new. I have
put all my weight into it, bounced on it. Still as new.
If you buy a spade like this, make sure it is all one piece and not
joined with rivets if it is going to take the work I describe.
A fork is different, as you know, because it does not matter how
strong the shaft is, the tines will bend with too much pressure.

Baz





It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down
and turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.



So you have clay soil? I would go for a metal shafted set of tools if
they are going to last you out. You can buy them for a fiver each at
discount stores in UK, such as Poundstretcher, my fork is from there and
its as strong as I need it to be.
Do you need to go a foot deep, all over, at once? Hard work.
You could just dig that deep for root veg this year and with rotation,
next year do the same and so on until the whole plot is done......
....then start again.

Baz

Most veggies only need six inches, like lettuces, others like carrots need
at least a foot. So it depends on what you want. The deeper the soil the
more crowding of the veggies you can do. Shallow soil you will need to
plant them further apart. The roots will go deep if the can, if not they
will spread out.

Double digging. The first part you dig put in a wheel barrel. Then rotate
and fill in the part that was dug... At the end fill in with the dirt from
the wheel barrel. As time goes by, the soil will get looser to the point
where shoveling is not needed.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Nad R wrote in
:

Baz wrote:
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Baz" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a
rake, I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a
foot down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard
packed. Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I
don't want to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost
pile. Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to
turn that is already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice
sharp looking boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass
or all steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat....
Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw
two good ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With
two handles, but I wasn't sure it would break or not.





I bought a Wilkinsons spade a few years ago when I started
gardening. It has a tubular metal shaft and have used it like a
crowbar to lift large roots from trees I have felled and it is as
good as new. I have put all my weight into it, bounced on it. Still
as new. If you buy a spade like this, make sure it is all one piece
and not joined with rivets if it is going to take the work I
describe. A fork is different, as you know, because it does not
matter how strong the shaft is, the tines will bend with too much
pressure.

Baz





It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot
down and turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.



So you have clay soil? I would go for a metal shafted set of tools if
they are going to last you out. You can buy them for a fiver each at
discount stores in UK, such as Poundstretcher, my fork is from there
and its as strong as I need it to be.
Do you need to go a foot deep, all over, at once? Hard work.
You could just dig that deep for root veg this year and with
rotation, next year do the same and so on until the whole plot is
done...... ....then start again.

Baz

Most veggies only need six inches, like lettuces, others like carrots
need at least a foot. So it depends on what you want. The deeper the
soil the more crowding of the veggies you can do. Shallow soil you
will need to plant them further apart. The roots will go deep if the
can, if not they will spread out.

Double digging. The first part you dig put in a wheel barrel. Then
rotate and fill in the part that was dug... At the end fill in with
the dirt from the wheel barrel. As time goes by, the soil will get
looser to the point where shoveling is not needed.


Oh...........

In article ,
"DogDiesel" wrote:

"Baz" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake,
I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a foot
down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard packed.
Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I don't want
to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that is
already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp
looking boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or
all steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat....
Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw two
good ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With two
handles, but I wasn't sure it would break or not.





I bought a Wilkinsons spade a few years ago when I started gardening.
It has a tubular metal shaft and have used it like a crowbar to lift
large roots from trees I have felled and it is as good as new. I have put
all my weight into it, bounced on it. Still as new.
If you buy a spade like this, make sure it is all one piece and not
joined with rivets if it is going to take the work I describe.
A fork is different, as you know, because it does not matter how strong
the shaft is, the tines will bend with too much pressure.

Baz





It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down and
turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.

Turning soil once, when you first prepare a garden bed, is a good idea
(not needed but it will speed up development of the garden soil).
Subsequent turning undoes the work of your earthworms and mycorrhiza.
What it does is aerate the soil, which accelerates the decomposition of
the soils organic content, which releases nutrients to feed your plants,
but leads to loss of organic matter in your soil, and possibly consuming
the soils nitrogen, leaving none for your plants. It's much easier to
work with nature using no-till approaches such as lasagna gardening, or
sheet mulching.
--
- Billy
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html
20111812130964689.html

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Baz wrote:
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Baz" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake,
I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a
foot down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard
packed. Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I
don't want to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that
is already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp
looking boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or
all steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat....
Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw
two good ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With two
handles, but I wasn't sure it would break or not.





I bought a Wilkinsons spade a few years ago when I started gardening.
It has a tubular metal shaft and have used it like a crowbar to lift
large roots from trees I have felled and it is as good as new. I have
put all my weight into it, bounced on it. Still as new.
If you buy a spade like this, make sure it is all one piece and not
joined with rivets if it is going to take the work I describe.
A fork is different, as you know, because it does not matter how
strong the shaft is, the tines will bend with too much pressure.

Baz





It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down
and turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.



So you have clay soil? I would go for a metal shafted set of tools if
they are going to last you out. You can buy them for a fiver each at
discount stores in UK, such as Poundstretcher, my fork is from there and
its as strong as I need it to be.
Do you need to go a foot deep, all over, at once? Hard work.
You could just dig that deep for root veg this year and with rotation,
next year do the same and so on until the whole plot is done......
....then start again.

Baz

Most veggies only need six inches, like lettuces, others like carrots need
at least a foot. So it depends on what you want. The deeper the soil the
more crowding of the veggies you can do. Shallow soil you will need to
plant them further apart. The roots will go deep if the can, if not they
will spread out.

Double digging. The first part you dig put in a wheel barrel. Then rotate
and fill in the part that was dug... At the end fill in with the dirt from
the wheel barrel. As time goes by, the soil will get looser to the point
where shoveling is not needed.

http://www.wikihow.com/Double-Dig-a-Garden
--
- Billy
“When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.�
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html
20111812130964689.html

Billy wrote in
:

It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down
and turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.

Turning soil once, when you first prepare a garden bed, is a good idea
(not needed but it will speed up development of the garden soil).
Subsequent turning undoes the work of your earthworms and mycorrhiza.
What it does is aerate the soil, which accelerates the decomposition
of the soils organic content, which releases nutrients to feed your
plants, but leads to loss of organic matter in your soil, and possibly
consuming the soils nitrogen, leaving none for your plants. It's much
easier to work with nature using no-till approaches such as lasagna
gardening, or sheet mulching.

Can you explain a bit more of this scientific research which has occupied
some vacant cells in the vast extremities within your active, if not
overactive organ we laughingly call a brain?
The OP asked for advice, not theory and some spooky sounding crap from some
weirdo.
If it is even remotely, remotely even possible what you have driveled,
would you not think that the commercial growers might have listened?

Please don't try to fill peoples heads with this kind of crap.

As I asked earlier, please give a bit more of an explaination, if you can
invent some more bullshit, er sorry, scientific research results.

Baz

Baz wrote:
Billy wrote in
:

It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down
and turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.

Turning soil once, when you first prepare a garden bed, is a good idea
(not needed but it will speed up development of the garden soil).
Subsequent turning undoes the work of your earthworms and mycorrhiza.
What it does is aerate the soil, which accelerates the decomposition
of the soils organic content, which releases nutrients to feed your
plants, but leads to loss of organic matter in your soil, and possibly
consuming the soils nitrogen, leaving none for your plants. It's much
easier to work with nature using no-till approaches such as lasagna
gardening, or sheet mulching.

Can you explain a bit more of this scientific research which has occupied
some vacant cells in the vast extremities within your active, if not
overactive organ we laughingly call a brain?
The OP asked for advice, not theory and some spooky sounding crap from some
weirdo.
If it is even remotely, remotely even possible what you have driveled,
would you not think that the commercial growers might have listened?

Please don't try to fill peoples heads with this kind of crap.

As I asked earlier, please give a bit more of an explaination, if you can
invent some more bullshit, er sorry, scientific research results.

Baz

it is not crap. The information Billy provided is sound. It is on the
scientific side. Most here are scientist, including myself. I tend to use
the principle called KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid, when dealing with those I
do not know. On the usenet there are many different styles of explaining
things. Some prefer the simple, others prefer the complex phrasing. On
usenet take what you want and ignore the rest.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article
,
Billy wrote:

As I asked earlier, please give a bit more of an explaination, if you can
invent some more bullshit, er sorry, scientific research results.

Baz

I doubt crainal-rectally inverted, such as yourself, would understand,
but here goes. Please excuse the paucity of invectives that I know you
rely on to communicate, and apologies for lack of any pictures that are
probably necessary to maintain your attention. This forum is usually
used by adults, but give it a go anyway. You have nothing to lose, but
your profound ignorance.

My bad, I forgot to mention
http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm
Lasagna Gardening 101
by Patricia Lanza, author of the Lasagna Gardening Series

Before you buy the first plant, or lay down the first sheet of wet
newspaper, take a look around your property. Check to see where you get
the best light; that's where you'll put your garden. Decide on the shape
and contents of your garden. The size of your plot will determine how
much material you need to make your first lasagna.*
Your material list will change depending on where you live. Some folks
have more leaves than others, some have seaweed, others ground
cornstalks or apple pulp. Some of the lucky ones have access to animal
manure.
There's no hard and fast rules about what to use for your layers, just
so long as it's organic and doesn't contain any protein (fat, meat, or
bone).* Before I go any further, let me just say that the basics of
making garden lasagnas are simple:
€ Don't remove the sod or do any extra work, like removing weeds or
rocks.
€ Mark the area for your garden using a water hose or a long rope to
get the desired shape.
€ Cover the area you've marked with wet newspapers, overlapping the
edges (5 or more sheets per layer).
€ Cover the paper with one to two inches of peat moss or other
organic material.*
€ Layer several inches of organic material on top of the peat moss.
€ Continue to alternate layers of peat moss and organic material,
until desired thickness is reached.
€ Water until the garden is the consistency of a damp sponge.
€ Plant, plant, plant and mulch, mulch, mulch.

Start with layers of newspaper or sheets of cardboard.
Then cover with mulch.
You need less loose material to plant in than you might think. In the
spring of '98, I layered an area where a dog pen had stood for years.
The property belongs to a 79-year-old man who was upset about his
inability to garden as he once had. Until recently, a 100-year-old white
pine tree had occupied the center of the fenced-in area. But its roots
had begun to do real damage to my friend's house and surrounding
properties, and so the tree had to be taken down.* Once the tree was
removed, the area was bright and sunny, but, unfortunately, the ground
contained 100 years worth of layered pine needles.

First, we covered the area with lime, then laid whole sections of wet
newspaper on top of the pine needles and covered the paper with peat
moss. We bought a small truckload of barn litter mixed with our local
clay soil and covered the peat with two inches of this mix and then two
more inches of peat moss. Additions of one to two inches of grass
clippings, two inches of peat moss, one to two inches of compost, and
more peat gave us a total of about six to eight inches to plant in.

We pulled the layers apart and planted 31 tomato plants, four squash,
six cucumber, four basil, two rosemary, four parsley, and twelve cosmos.
It was a jungle, but with staking, pruning, and tying, the garden
produced so much fruit that the entire neighborhood helped eat the
harvest, and the cosmos were so beautiful they took our breath away.

Once the harvest was finished, I pulled the stems and disturbed the
layers for the first time. Pieces of the paper layer came up with the
roots. So, too, did the biggest earthworms you can imagine. The soil was
still probably a bit acidic, but it will get better in time.

To prepare the new garden for another year of planting, we spread the
contents of a large composter onto the space, and the garden took on
several inches in height. The last mowing of grass provided enough
clippings to add another few inches. When the fall came, we mowed the
leaves for a top dressing of four inches of chipped leaves. I love an
edged garden and so the last thing I did was cut a sharp, clean border
around the sides, throwing the edging material up onto the garden, with
grass side down, for another layer of more good dirt. It looked
beautiful!

Close planting and mulching greatly reduced the amount of weeds in the
dog-pen garden, as they do in all my gardens. It also meant less
watering, since the paper and mulch kept the soil around the root zone
cool. Even though we pushed it a bit by planting 31 tomato plants, the
staking, tying, and pruning, in addition to close planting, created a
healthy growing environment, with few garden pests. It was another test,
and the results have left my friend confident that, as he enters his
80th year, he will be able to continue gardening with the lasagna method.

Indeed, lasagna gardening is so simple that the hardest part may be
getting started. I suggest beginning with that walk around your property
to determine what you can do with what you have. If you get lots of
shade, plant a shade garden or cut some tree limbs. Track the light for
a couple of days during the spring and summer. You probably have more
light than you think--not sun, but light. Lots of rocks? Try rock
gardening. You might learn to love the wonderful world of small plants
that thrive in rocky terrain. Too little space? Look again. If there's a
foot of space, you can plant in it.

There's no such thing as work-free gardening, but the lasagna method is
close. Once you train yourself to think layering, and learn to stockpile
your ingredients, you will work less each year.* Following are some of
my favorite vegetables, along with tips on how I grow them the lasagna
way:

ASPARAGUS
Many gardeners shy away from this tasty crop, mainly because it's
difficult to grow through traditional means. Not so with lasagna
gardening. I still remember the first year I planned my asparagus patch.
Turned out to be one of my best vegetable trials yet. For fun, I grew a
tray of plants from seed, started indoors in February. In early spring,
I added the small seedlings to the assembly of roots--one, two, and
three years old--that I had accumulated to plant together.

Using a mattock blade, I scraped a shallow opening in a newly made
lasagna bed, an inch or two deep. I combined the roots and seedlings in
the opening and covered them with a sifting of soil and peat moss. Once
the roots were planted, I covered the top of the row with a mixture of
manure and peat moss.

As the roots sprouted and grew, I added sifted compost and grass
clippings. In the fall, I added more manure and a thick layer of chipped
leaves for winter mulch. During the first spring, I watched the
asparagus emerge and grow. I invited inn guests into the garden to help
me cut and eat the first tender stalks. Then I mulched, mulched, then
mulched some more.*
The second spring, I cut so much asparagus we had some to freeze. It was
all so easy: plant, mulch, harvest, and enjoy.

Site and soil. A heavy feeder, asparagus needs well-drained soil and at
least six hours of sun. The fall before planting, build a lasagna garden
on the site you've chosen for your asparagus, using a base of newspaper
topped with 18 to 24 inches of layered organic material. By spring, the
lasagna bed will have composted to ideal soil conditions for asparagus.

Planting and harvest. The time is right when the soil is thawed and
crumbles in your hand. Plant in rows two feet apart in two shallow
trenches, with a rise in between. This lets the crowns sit on top of the
rise, with the roots in the trenches. Plants should be 18 inches apart
and covered with two to three inches of soil and compost mixture.

As the plants grow during the summer, continue covering with the compost
enriched mixture until crowns are four inches deep. In the fall, cover
the entire bed with a blanket of eight to ten inches of chopped leaves
or other organic mulch. Each spring, feed the bed compost enriched with
manure. In colder regions, pull the mulch back on half the bed to get an
extra early harvest, saving half the bed for later harvesting. Once the
harvest is over, the remaining shoots expand into ferny top growth. When
the ferns turn bronze, cut them back.

BEANS
I usually wind up planting many more beans than I actually need. But
with so many varieties--all so much fun to grow--who can resist!* Once
the last chance of frost is past, plant your favorite bean seeds. Divide
your seeds into thirds and plant every two weeks for a longer harvest.

Once I have a lasagna bed in place, I plant bush bean seeds along the
edges. They only need a few inches, since the plants will lean out over
the sides of the garden, leaving room for taller crops. I plant pole
bean seeds around the base of teepees made from six-foot bamboo poles.
Plant seeds around the base of each pole, and when they start to climb,
give them a boost up the trailing twine you have tied from the top.

Site and soil. Beans grow best in well-drained soil that's high in
organic matter. A new or established lasagna bed in full sun works best
for all types.

Planting and harvest. Fix supports in place before planting pole bean
seeds. For both types, pole and bush, just push the seeds into loose
soil about two inches apart. Cover the seeds and press the soil around
them for direct contact.

Keep the soil evenly moist until seeds emerge, then cover the soil with
a good mulch to keep the soil cool, the leaves clean, and the garden
weed-free. To avoid rust, don't work beans when foliage is wet. Once
beans start to appear, keep crop picked to encourage new bloom. Rotate
crops every year to avoid pests and disease.

CUCUMBERS
Bush cucumbers can be grown in small spaces and containers. Climbing
cucumbers need strong support, so plant close to a fence or trellis. I
like the climbers and try to see what kind of new supports I can come up
with each year to make the garden more interesting. I loved the string
cradles we tied to a stockade fence one year. The vines grew up strings
hanging down into the row, then up the string cradles and onto the fence.

Site and soil. Cucumbers need good drainage and rich soil. Lasagna
gardens are just the thing, when enriched with fresh manure. However,
wait three years before planting in the same place to avoid pests and
disease.

Planting and harvest. Wait until the last frost is past, then plant
prestarted seeds covered with floating row cover in colder regions, and
seeds sown directly in the garden in milder climates. Keep mulched and
don't till, as cucumbers are shallow rooted. Maintaining at least six
inches of mulch at all times keeps the roots cool and moist, but they
still need an inch of water each week. Pick the fruit when it's small
and most flavorful. Once the harvest starts, don't miss a day, or you'll
have candidates for the compost pile instead of the salad bowl.

GARLIC
If you've never tried growing garlic, you've missed something special. I
make a rich lasagna bed, let it cook for four to six weeks under black
plastic, set strings up to keep my rows straight, and push in single
cloves just enough to see they are covered. When the foliage is full and
seed heads form, I cut and use them just as I would cloves. When the
foliage turns yellow or brown, it's time to lift the garlic.

Loosen the earth and gently shake off any dirt. Let the cloves cure by
hanging them in a dry place. The individual cloves will each make a
head, so you will have plenty to use, as well as to save for next year's
seed.

Site and soil. Good drainage, full sun, and plenty of manure-rich
compost are best. A well-built lasagna bed has the perfect growing
conditions to start, then all you have to do is add grass clippings or
chipped leaves for mulch to keep the soil evenly moist and weeds at a
minimum.

Planting and harvest. Gardeners in the Northeast and zone 5 and colder
climates will get best results from hard-neck garlic planted in the fall
and harvested the next summer. Milder climates can grow soft-neck; plant
in the spring and harvest that same fall.

If you haven't room for an entire bed just for garlic, plant some in
groups of three to five cloves in flower or vegetable beds. Folks who
have bug problems swear by the positive effect garlic has on its
companions.

LETTUCE
Anyone can grow lettuce. The problem is most folks grow too much at one
time. Use a little restraint and make successive plantings. Mix lettuce
seed with sand so you will not have to do so much thinning. I broadcast
a mixture of cut-and-come-again lettuce once a month for the duration of
growing time for my zone.

Site and soil. Lettuce likes it cool and so is ideally suited for spring
and fall plantings. I use other taller plants to shade my lettuce in
summer. It's best to prepare a site for lettuce in the fall, adding a
high nitrogen amendment (such as fresh grass clippings) to the top two
inches of soil.

Planting and harvest. Lettuce is a fun crop to grow in containers, as
borders, and in tiny spaces that would only go to waste otherwise.
There's really no safe place to hide when I start looking for places to
plant. I've planted Ruby Red and Oakleaf lettuce in my herb and edible
flower containers and flower boxes. I interplant herbs and lettuce in
the border gardens that surround my antique roses. The Mesculun mixes
are wonderful in big terra cotta saucers that stand alone in part shade.

When guests come for dinner, I give them a colander and a pair of
scissors and point them toward the garden. They come back with an
interesting collection of edibles and never forget the experience. Lots
of good gardeners start out by getting their feet dirty in someone
else's garden.

POTATOES
No need to dig trenches or to hill up. Build a lasagna bed to eliminate
grass and weeds, don't use any lime or nitrogen-rich materials (such as
grass clippings), lay down one or two sheets of wet newspaper, lay seed
potatoes on top of the paper, and cover with spoiled hay or compost. You
can use pretty much anything you have that is dried. Chipped leaves are
great for covering the tubers. I use hay that is well-cured and lying
next to my potato bed, so I don't have to carry it too far.

Site and soil. Potatoes need full sun, good drainage, and can tolerate
acid soil. Preparing a lasagna bed and adding bone meal or rock sulfate
produces a good harvest and large tubers. Avoid planting potatoes where
you have grown them or their relatives (including eggplant, peppers, and
tomatoes) for the past three years.

Planting and harvest. Be ready to plant in early to midspring and have
enough material to cover the bed with ten inches of mulch. Be prepared
to add several inches of cover to the bed as plants grow. The important
thing here is to keep the tubers covered so they will not see the light
of day. By the end of the growing period, the plants will be propped up
with hay or other soil amendments.

Slip your hand under the mulch to harvest a few small potatoes when the
beans are ready to pick. Let the rest continue growing until the foliage
has yellowed. Don't try to dig! Lift the mulch and pick the clean tubers
up off the newspaper.

Be on the watch for potato bugs. Try to catch them when they are small.
Sweep across the foliage with a broom. They will fall into the mulch
and, when small, not be able to find their way back up to the leaves.

TOMATOES
The toughest part of growing tomatoes is choosing the kinds you will
grow. You'll likely want to plant several different varieties each year:
there's early, midseason, and late ones; tiny pear shaped, cherry,
patio, plum, slicing, and cooking varieties; plus, tomatoes for juice
and for stuffing, not to mention new types and heritage.

Site and soil. Tomatoes need full sun, an inch of water per week, and
protection from the wind. Ideal conditions are a lasagna bed that has
been around for at least a year and has not grown any of the relatives:
potatoes, eggplant, or other tomatoes.

I prepare my site by installing water jugs buried up to their shoulders
between where every two plants will be. A pin hole in the sides facing
the plants should let enough seep out to keep up consistent watering. I
place a tall stick in each jug, its top colored with red paint or nail
polish. This helps me find the sticks, which helps me find the openings
to the jugs when all the foliage hides them from view. I fill the jugs
with a funnel and the water hose. You can add liquid plant food to the
water if you like.

Planting and harvest. Wait until after the last frost, then plant the
seedlings. Create a well of soil around the stem to help catch any rain.
If you have prepared the lasagna bed in advance, all you will have to do
is scrape the soil aside and lay the plant down up to the last four
leaves. Press the soil around the plant to make direct contact and push
out any air pockets.

Once the jugs and plants are in place, make a collar of one or two
sheets of wet newspaper, place it around the stem, and cover the paper
with mulch. Depending on the type of tomatoes you have chosen, you will
need to stake, tie, prune, and pinch. Keep the water jugs full and check
plants regularly for bugs or disease. Don't get impatient; tomatoes need
lots of long hot sunny days and warm nights. Again, depending on the
cultivar you have chosen to grow, you can look forward to your first
harvest in 55 to 100 days after you set the plants out.

And, oh, what a delicious harvest! I love tomatoes warm from the
garden--standing over the row, biting into one, the juice running off my
chin, dripping from my elbow, the acid tingling my tongue. It just
doesn't get any better than that.
--
- Billy
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html
20111812130964689.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

As I asked earlier, please give a bit more of an explaination, if you can
invent some more bullshit, er sorry, scientific research results.

Baz

I doubt crainal-rectally inverted, such as yourself, would understand,
but here goes. Please excuse the paucity of invectives that I know you
rely on to communicate, and apologies for lack of any pictures that are
probably necessary to maintain your attention. This forum is usually
used by adults, but give it a go anyway. You have nothing to lose, but
your profound ignorance.

As you mentioned to Dog, you are wrong again, as you often are.

Your continuing education . . .

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...nic_go_organic

Don't Panic, Go Organic
Be not troubled by Robert Paarlberg's scaremongering. Organic practices
can feed the world -- better, in fact, than wasteful industrial farming.
BY ANNA LAPPÉ | APRIL 29, 2010


In May 2004, Catherine Badgley, an evolutionary biology professor at the
University of Michigan, took her students on a research trip to an
organic farm near their campus. Standing on the acre-and-a-half farm,
Badgley asked the farmer, Rob MacKercher, how much food he produces
annually. "Twenty-seven tons," he said. Badgley did the quick math:
That's enough to provide 150 families one pound of produce every single
day of the year.
"If he can grow that quantity on this tiny parcel," Badgley wondered,
"why can't organic agriculture feed the world?" That question was the
genesis of a multi-year, multidisciplinary study to explore whether we
could, indeed, feed the world with organic, sustainable methods of
farming. The results? A resounding yes.
Unfortunately, you don't hear about this study, or others with similar
findings, in "Attention Whole Foods Shoppers," Robert Paarlberg's
defense of industrial agriculture in the new issue of Foreign Policy.
Instead, organic agriculture, according to Paarlberg, is an "elite
preoccupation," a "trendy cause" for "purist circles." Sure, sidling up
to a Whole Foods in your Lexus SUV and spending $24.99 on artisan
fromage may be the trappings of a privileged foodie, but there's an
SUV-sized difference between obsessing about the texture of your goat
cheese and arguing for a more sustainable food system. Despite
Paarlberg's pronouncements, Badgley's research, along with much more
evidence, helps us see that what's best for the planet and for people --
especially small-scale farmers who are the hungriest among us -- is a
food system based on agroecological practices. What's more, Paarlberg's
impressive-sounding statistics veil the true human and ecological cost
we are paying with industrial agriculture.

*

Since most of us aren't well-versed in the minutia of this debate, we
can't be blamed for falling for Paarlberg's scaremongering, which
suggests that by rejecting biotech and industrial agriculture, we are
keeping developing countries underdeveloped and undernourished.
Paarlberg suggests that we could eliminate starvation across the
continent of Africa were it not that "efforts to deliver such essentials
have been undercut by deeply misguided ... advocacy against agricultural
modernization."

It's a compelling argument, and one industry defenders make all the
time. For who among us would want to think we're starving the poor by
pushing for sustainability? (At a Biotechnology Industry Organization
conference I attended in 2005, a workshop participant even suggested
pro-organic advocates should be "tried for crimes against humanity.")
But the argument for industrial agriculture and biotechnology is built
on a misleading depiction of what organic agriculture is, bolstered with
shaky statistics, and constructed by ignoring the on-the-ground lessons
of success stories across the globe.

For a start, Paarlberg doesn't get what it means to be organic. "Few
smallholder farmers in Africa use any synthetic chemicals," he writes,
"so their food is de facto organic." In contrast, industrial
agriculture, as he sees it, is "science-intensive." But as Doug
Gurian-Sherman, a senior scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists
explains, "modern organic practices are defined by much more than just
the absence of synthetic chemicals"; it's knowledge-intensive farming.
Organic farmers improve output, less by applying purchased products and
more by tapping a sophisticated understanding of biological systems to
build soil fertility and manage pests and weeds through techniques that
include double-dug beds, intercropping, composting, manures, cover
crops, crop sequencing, and natural pest control.

Biotech and industrial agriculture would in fact more aptly be called
water, chemical, and fossil-fuel-intensive farming, requiring external
inputs to boost productivity. Industrial agriculture gobbles up much of
the 70 percent of the planet's freshwater resources diverted to farming,
for example. It relies on petroleum-based chemicals for pest and weed
control and requires massive amounts of synthetic fertilizer. In fact,
in 2007, we used 13 million tons of synthetic fertilizer, five times the
amount used in 1960. Crop yields, by comparison, grew only half that
fast. And it's hardly a harmless increase: Nitrogen fertilizers are the
single biggest cause of global-warming gases from U.S. agriculture and a
major cause of air and water pollution -- including the creation of dead
zones in coastal waters that are devoid of fish. And despite the massive
pesticide increase, the United States loses more crops to pests today
than it did before the chemical agriculture revolution six decades ago.
The diminishing returns of industrial agriculture are one reason why
organic agriculture comes out ahead in all the comprehensive comparative
studies. In Badgley's study, for instance, data from hundreds of
certified-organic, industrial, and low-input farms around the world
revealed that introducing agroecological approaches in developing
countries led to between two and four times the productivity as the
previous practices. Estimating the impact on global food supply if we
shifted the planet to organic production, the study authors found a
yield increase for every single food category they investigated.

In one of the largest studies to analyze how agroecological practices
affect productivity in the developing world, researchers at the
University of Essex in England analyzed 286 projects in 57 countries.
Among the 12.6 million farmers followed, who were transitioning toward
sustainable agriculture, researchers found an average yield increase of
79 percent across a wide variety of crop types.
Even the United Nations backs those claims. A 2008 U.N. Conference on
Trade and Development report concluded that "organic agriculture can be
more conducive to food security in Africa than most conventional
production systems, and ... is more likely to be sustainable in the long
term."

In the most comprehensive analysis of world agriculture to date, several
U.N. agencies and the World Bank engaged more than 400 scientists and
development experts from 80 countries over four years to produce the
International Assessment of Agricultural Knowledge, Science, and
Technology for Development (IAASTD). The conclusion? Our "reliance on
resource-extractive industrial agriculture is risky and unsustainable,
particularly in the face of worsening climate, energy, and water
crises," said Marcia Ishii-Eiteman, a lead author on the report.

Too bad we don't hear these success stories from Paarlberg. Instead he
claims that without industrial food systems, "food would be not only
less abundant but also less safe." To build his case, he points to
improvements in food safety in the United States, such as the drop in E.
coli contamination in U.S. beef. He neglects to mention that the
virulent form of E. coli, a pathogen that can be fatal in humans, only
emerged in the gut of cattle in the 1980s as a direct consequence of
industrial livestock factories -- precisely the model he would export
overseas. Meanwhile, Paarlberg conveniently ignores the diet-related
illnesses spawned by industrial food in the United States, where the
health-care system is now crippled with these preventable diseases.
Hypertension (high blood pressure), heart disease, and Type 2 diabetes
have all been linked in part to diet.

Paarlberg defends his case by pointing to a staggering death toll in
Africa where, he claims, 700,000 people die every year from food- and
water-borne diseases compared with only 5,000 in the United States. But
he's deceptively comparing apples and oranges: Those U.S. figures are
only for food-borne illnesses. And the lack of an industrial food system
isn't responsible for most of that high death toll in Africa. The World
Health Organization attributes much of this tragic toll to unsanitary
drinking water contaminated with pathogens transmitted from human
excreta, causing a massive spike in cholera that year. Oh, and pesticide
poisoning, too. Yes, that would be pesticides from industrial chemical
farming.

Paarlberg's praise for industrial practices is similar to the biotech
industry trumpeting its technology for saving us from famine, farmer
bankruptcy, blindness, disease, poverty, even loss of biodiversity. Back
in 1994, Dan Verakis, a spokesman for the industrial agricultural firm
Monsanto, claimed that biotech crops would reduce herbicide and
pesticide use, in effect reversing "the Silent Spring scenario." In
1999, Monsanto said it had developed genetically engineered rice to be a
vital source of vitamin A, reducing blindness caused by its deficiency.
That same year, then Monsanto CEO Robert Shapiro boasted that GM
technology would trigger an "80 percent reduction in insecticide use in
cotton crops alone in the United States."

Few of these promises have borne fruit. Instead, commercialized biotech
crops have fostered herbicide-resistant weeds and pesticide-resistant
pests, while reducing biodiversity. "In the past, farmers used a variety
of chemical controls and manual labor, making it unlikely that any weed
plant would evolve a resistance to all those different strategies
simultaneously," explains gene ecology expert, Jack Heinemann, another
IAASTD author. "But as we oversimplify -- as we industrialize -- we make
agriculture more vulnerable to the next problem." Already, examples of
herbicide resistance are popping up from canola fields in Canada to
farms in Australia.

Another cause for concern is that industrial agriculture and genetically
modified crops dangerously reduce biodiversity, especially on the farm.
In the United States, 90 percent of soy, 70 percent of corn, and 95
percent of sugarbeets are genetically modified. Industrial farms are by
their very nature monocultures, but diverse crops on a farm, even weeds,
serve multiple functions: Bees feast on their nectar and pollen, birds
munch on weed seeds, worms and other soil invertebrates that help
control pests live among them -- the list goes on.

So are farmers in southern Africa, across India, in villages throughout
the developing world really waiting for biotech and industrial
agriculture to feed them, as Paarlberg suggests? "No," says Sue Edwards,
a British-born botanist who works at the Institute for Sustainable
Development in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. "Farmers we work with don't hold
much hope" for these technologies; they see hope in their fields.

Starting in 1996, Edwards and colleagues engaged smallholder farmers in
drought-prone regions in Ethiopia to investigate whether resilient food
systems could be fostered by tapping ecological agriculture, building
farming skills, emphasizing crops indigenous to the continent that had
evolved to be drought resilient. They enlisted farmers in field trials,
comparing crops grown using ecological methods like composting with
those raised with chemical fertilizer or without any inputs at all.
(That'd be what Paarlberg calls "de facto organic.") The results are
conclusive: By 2006, they were finding significantly higher yields in
the ecological test sites of every single crop compared with the
chemical-fertilizer plots and even more dramatic benefits compared with
the no-input plots.

Among the pitfalls in Paarlberg's analysis, two stand out. First, the
benefits of his approach are speculative, at best; at worst, his
assertions are disengenous, based on cherry-picking evidence and
misrepresenting data. We need only compare his claims with Edwards's
work and similar research around the world that demonstrates that
agroecological approaches can protect natural resources and increase
yields. Not in five years; not in 20. But right now -- today.

Second, his approach ignores power relationships that ultimately
determine who will benefit from any technology. In agroecological
approaches, farmers gain knowledge, including knowledge about ways to
adapt to changing climate and to share their knowledge with each other.
Farmers become less dependent on distant, centralized suppliers of
high-priced biotech seeds and chemical inputs and therefore less
vulnerable to their notoriously unstable prices. Though perhaps harder
to measure, this independence may be the most critical advantages of
agroecological farming.

Take away Paarlberg-esque mythologizing -- along with the government
handouts, international financial institutional backing, tax breaks, and
externalized environmental and human costs that prop up industrial
agriculture and biotechnology -- and industrial agriculture would go the
way of the Hummer: an overhyped footnote in the history books.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

Billy wrote in
:

Sorry, it's pityful.

Baz

You need help. Urgent help.