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Old 08-02-2011, 08:05 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Indoor plant lights

I was looking round for plant lamps. Ended up buying a Phillips plant
and aquarium T8 tube.
Been reading, but no really good info. I'm not growing a big crop,
just seeds. I'm
just trying to keep them warm right now. Got heat and halogen lamps.
There are various CFL's and
I have a few dozen myself, of different colors. I know you need UV of
some sort.
In the past I have used black lights, not for plants. there are at
least two types of Black Lights or BL.
One type is filtered, blue tube. The other looks like a regular
florescent and when its on looks dim unless
it fluoresces something. I know these have a good UV output since when
I used them, would bleach out colors
pretty good on objects close by, but is not the hazardous germicidal
types. The only thing I know will work is
metal halide arc. Maybe some automobile arc lamps ??

Anybody know more ??

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Old 08-02-2011, 08:19 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On Feb 8, 3:05*pm, Gz wrote:
I was looking round for plant lamps. Ended up buying a Phillips plant
and aquarium T8 tube.
Been reading, but no really good info. I'm not growing a big crop,
just seeds. I'm
just trying to keep them warm right now. Got heat and halogen lamps.
There are various CFL's and
I have a few dozen myself, of different colors. I know you need UV of
some sort.
In the past I have used black lights, not for plants. there are at
least two types of Black Lights or BL.
One type is filtered, blue tube. The other looks like a regular
florescent and when its on looks dim unless
it fluoresces something. I know these have a good UV output since when
I used them, would bleach out colors
pretty good on objects close by, but is not the hazardous germicidal
types. The only thing I know will work is
metal halide arc. Maybe some automobile arc lamps ??

Anybody know more ??


In years past, growing pepper seeds and stuff, just put them in
upstairs windows. Basement
is rather cool right now, and the seeds are not really working well.
Is there any problem
of seed being frozen through the mail ???

greg
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:07 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Indoor plant lights

There are low energy LED lamps now available for indoor cultivation...
They give out the right spectrum of light and generate no heat, which
cuts the electricity right down.

Worth looking into as an alternative...
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Old 09-02-2011, 06:05 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Indoor plant lights

On Feb 9, 6:07*am, Dazza wrote:
There are low energy LED lamps now available for indoor cultivation...
They give out the right spectrum of light and generate no heat, which
cuts the electricity right down.

Worth looking into as an alternative...


I look around, most of the commercial stuff is for pot. Grass.

I am growing the other kind of grass, catnip, and peppers.

I will just look up plants spectrum for growing..

greg
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:07 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Indoor plant lights

In article
,
Gz wrote:

On Feb 9, 6:07*am, Dazza wrote:
There are low energy LED lamps now available for indoor cultivation...
They give out the right spectrum of light and generate no heat, which
cuts the electricity right down.

Worth looking into as an alternative...


I look around, most of the commercial stuff is for pot. Grass.

I am growing the other kind of grass, catnip, and peppers.

I will just look up plants spectrum for growing..

greg


The same mechanism that allows cannabis to grow (Chlorophyl + sunlight,
carbon dioxide & water --- glucose
glucose -- cellulose
glucose + ATP --- growth)
allows all green plants to grow.

Cannabis grows in dirt or with hydroponics. Is that any reason not to
grow other plants that grow in dirt or with hydroponic?
-----

The Color of Plants on Other Worlds
Scientific American
April 2008
(Available at better libraries near you.)

pg. 48

The energy spectrum of sun light at Earth¹s surface peaks in the
blue-green, so scientists have long scratched their heads about why
plants reflect green, thereby wasting what appears to be the best
available light . The answer is that photosynthesis doesn¹t depend on
the total amount of light energy but on the energy per photon and the
number of photons that make up the light.


***Whereas blue photons carry more energy than red ones, the sun emits
more of the red kind. Plants use blue photons for their quality and red
photons for their quantity. The green photons that lie in between have
neither the energy nor the numbers, so plants have adapted to absorb
fewer of them. ***


The basic photosynthetic process, which fixes one carbon atom (obtained
from carbon dioxide, CO2) into a simple sugar molecule, requires a
minimum of eight photons. It takes one photon to split an
oxygen-hydrogen bond in water H2O and thereby to obtain an electron for
biochemical reactions. A total of four such bonds must be broken to
create an oxygen molecule (O2). Each of those photons is matched by at
least one additional photon for a second type of reaction to form the
sugar. Each photon must have a minimum amount of energy to drive the
reactions.

The way plants harvest sunlight is a marvel of nature. Photosynthetic
pigments such as chlorophyll are not isolated molecules. They operate in
a network like an array of antennas, each tuned to pick out photons of
particular wavelengths. Chlorophyll preferentially absorbs red and blue
light, and carotenoid pigments (which produce the vibrant reds and
yellows of fall foliage) pick up a slightly different shade of blue. All
this energy gets funneled to a special chlorophyll molecule at a
chemical reaction center, which splits water and releases oxygen.
The funneling process is the key to which colors the pigments select.
The complex of molecules at the reaction center can perform chemical
reactions only if it receives a red photon or the equivalent amount of
energy in some other form. To take advantage of blue photons, the
antenna pigments work in concert to convert the high energy (from blue
photons) to a lower energy (redder), like a series of step-down
transformers that reduces the 100,000 volts of electric power lines to
the 120 or 240 volts of a wall outlet. The process begins when a blue
photon hits a blue-absorbing pigment and energizes one of the electrons
in the molecule. When that electron drops back down to its original
state, it releases this energy‹but because of energy losses to heat and
vibrations, it releases less energy than it absorbed.

The pigment molecule releases its energy not in the form of another
photon but in the form of an electrical interaction with another pigment
molecule that is able to absorb energy at that lower level. This
pigment, in turn, releases an even lower amount of energy, and so the
process continues until the original blue photon energy has been
downgraded to red. The array of pigments can also convert cyan, green or
yellow to red. The reaction center, as the receiving end of the cascade,
adapts to absorb the lowest-energy available photons. On our planet¹s
surface, red photons are both the most abundant and the lowest energy
within the visible spectrum.
--
- Billy
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html



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Old 09-02-2011, 10:55 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Indoor plant lights

Gz wrote:

I look around, most of the commercial stuff is for pot. Grass.

I am growing the other kind of grass, catnip, and peppers.


Or Aerogarden. I have one that I cycle through various herbs and
lettuce. When I tried it with peppers and tomatoes the plants grew
nicely but only produced a tiny number of fruit. No idea if it was for
lack of pollen in the air. It's a small but effective product for its
niche of small amounts of small plants. Great for flavoring soup in the
kitchen.
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:11 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On 2/9/2011 5:55 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Gz wrote:

I look around, most of the commercial stuff is for pot. Grass.

I am growing the other kind of grass, catnip, and peppers.


Or Aerogarden. I have one that I cycle through various herbs and
lettuce. When I tried it with peppers and tomatoes the plants grew
nicely but only produced a tiny number of fruit. No idea if it was for
lack of pollen in the air. It's a small but effective product for its
niche of small amounts of small plants. Great for flavoring soup in the
kitchen.


Got one for Christmas and am growing the herbs. Figure it will cost at
least twice as much for the electricity used as for the herbs obtained.
It is cute though and makes a nice decoration for the living room.
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:50 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Indoor plant lights

Frank wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Or Aerogarden. I have one that I cycle through various herbs and
lettuce ... Great for flavoring soup in the
kitchen.


Got one for Christmas and am growing the herbs. Figure it will cost at
least twice as much for the electricity used as for the herbs obtained.
It is cute though and makes a nice decoration for the living room.


Not price efficient. They give you fresh from the plant herbs for most
of the year. My wife has suggested buying a second one so there is
always at least one supplying fresh from the plant herbs. Herbs cut
under a minute before putting in the food are so much more delicious.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:42 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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In article ,
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Frank wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Or Aerogarden. I have one that I cycle through various herbs and
lettuce ... Great for flavoring soup in the
kitchen.


Got one for Christmas and am growing the herbs. Figure it will cost at
least twice as much for the electricity used as for the herbs obtained.
It is cute though and makes a nice decoration for the living room.


Not price efficient. They give you fresh from the plant herbs for most
of the year. My wife has suggested buying a second one so there is
always at least one supplying fresh from the plant herbs. Herbs cut
under a minute before putting in the food are so much more delicious.


Cooking from scratch, I'm amazed at the amount of parsley my recipes
call for.
--
- Billy
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

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Old 11-02-2011, 04:26 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Let me say first that it is feasible but unlikely that your seeds were
frozen (damaged) in transit. Many toms can overwinter in freezing
temps. If they are not germinating it can be for many reasons. your
humidity, pH, temp. photoperiod,...Try The new seed-starters handbook,
Nancy Bubel.

As for lighting, it is hard to give you the info you seek w/o knowing
what type (i.e. HO),or wattage and length tube you have. You also
need a bit of understanding on light spectrum as it relate to plants,
not the Amazon book rip on biology billy is selling. If you have the
T8 Phillips 865 fl you have a really good light, runs about 95 lm/w,
that is more than adequate for germination. Most FL tubes are 32 w
running 2000-2500 lm (( 50-62.5 lm/w). 60 lm/w is a good median to
evaluate light preformance on. Just know the CRI and Color Temp info
are not important except to split hairs. You do not need a BL, or any
additional UV wavelengths nor the additional CFL or halogen you
mention. If you are using the Halogen for a heat source, that is a
waste of electricity and you need to watch drying out your grow
media. Use a heating mat or some form of bottom heat instead.
Certain CFLs are better than others, such as the Edison base
( standard household socket) 68 W CFL ( http://tinyurl.com/4ljal94)
(4200 Lumens) (~62 lm/w), as are the T5s ( 5000 lm per tube).

More info? just search for words like Photosynthesis light spectrum
or Photo synthetically Active Radiation (PAR) and phototropic
periods. Also look @ the ~400nm and the ~600nm. There are hundreds
of charts and graphs around to help you and actually check what folks
will tell you. If you want more info, just ask and I will try to
point you in the direction.


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Old 11-02-2011, 04:48 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On Feb 10, 11:50*am, Doug Freyburger wrote:

Love the concept, size, etc, but IMO the Aero Garden lacks in
performance, maybe better as LEDs come in to their own and prices
drop. I do not however expect the price point of the A/G to drop. A/
G is more marketing than preformance. I believe the A/G uses the 2
pin flat CFLs in the range of 26w/ ~1500 lumen so depends on if your
model is the 1-2-or 3 lights model as to how much electricity it
used. This link has a power cost estimation chart to help you.
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/t-technicalguide.aspx a 2 light model
would be ~ 60 ws, that should not cost much. To further save you can
cheat the seed packs and the nutes to save on propriety costs.

OTOH the A/G is a bit like putting a 16 Horse lawn garden engine in a
F150 and expecting it to pull a trailer at hiway speeds. Those little
lights have no horsepower to do much, even with a high ambient levels
and certainly will not penetrate to much of the lower levels of the
plant. If a bit mechanically inclined , you can do a better setup for
~ same cost, perhaps not as compact or as pretty but have a real
kitchen lettuce herb garden 24/7 365 in say a 2-3 sf space vs your 1
sf counter top.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:36 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
...
Gz wrote:

I look around, most of the commercial stuff is for pot. Grass.

I am growing the other kind of grass, catnip, and peppers.


Or Aerogarden. I have one that I cycle through various herbs and
lettuce. When I tried it with peppers and tomatoes the plants grew
nicely but only produced a tiny number of fruit.



It was because the Aerogarden cant support those size of plants. You needed
to transplant them .




No idea if it was for
lack of pollen in the air. It's a small but effective product for its
niche of small amounts of small plants. Great for flavoring soup in the
kitchen.



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Old 11-02-2011, 05:43 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Feb 10, 11:50 am, Doug Freyburger wrote:

Love the concept, size, etc, but IMO the Aero Garden lacks in
performance, maybe better as LEDs come in to their own and prices
drop. I do not however expect the price point of the A/G to drop. A/
G is more marketing than preformance. I believe the A/G uses the 2
pin flat CFLs in the range of 26w/ ~1500 lumen so depends on if your
model is the 1-2-or 3 lights model as to how much electricity it
used. This link has a power cost estimation chart to help you.
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/t-technicalguide.aspx a 2 light model
would be ~ 60 ws, that should not cost much. To further save you can
cheat the seed packs and the nutes to save on propriety costs.

OTOH the A/G is a bit like putting a 16 Horse lawn garden engine in a
F150 and expecting it to pull a trailer at hiway speeds. Those little
lights have no horsepower to do much, even with a high ambient levels
and certainly will not penetrate to much of the lower levels of the
plant. If a bit mechanically inclined , you can do a better setup for
~ same cost, perhaps not as compact or as pretty but have a real
kitchen lettuce herb garden 24/7 365 in say a 2-3 sf space vs your 1
sf counter top.


I got 200 watts of light in mine. But it is essentially a worthless piece
of equipment. Everything needs transplanted elsewhere or growth gets
stunted. Everything eventually will get rot anyways. $30 electric bill a
month for $2.00 worth of plants. And its a bitch getting the roots out of
the thing.



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Old 11-02-2011, 05:44 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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"Gz" wrote in message
...
On Feb 9, 6:07 am, Dazza wrote:
There are low energy LED lamps now available for indoor cultivation...
They give out the right spectrum of light and generate no heat, which
cuts the electricity right down.

Worth looking into as an alternative...


I look around, most of the commercial stuff is for pot. Grass.



Which is exactly what you need.


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Old 12-02-2011, 08:36 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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I got 200 watts of light in mine. *But it is essentially a worthless piece
of equipment. * Everything needs transplanted elsewhere or growth gets
stunted. Everything eventually will get rot anyways. *$30 electric bill a
month for $2.00 worth of plants. And its a bitch getting the roots out of
the thing.


Dog....Check your facts and ensure we are talking apples to apples.
You maybe have 200 W equivalent from your A/G lights, a common
marketing ploy for CFLs. The A/G models use 1, 2 or 3 flat CFL
lights…. But they are all the same light. This is their propaganda
and their cost projections:

http://www.aerogrow.com/faqs/aerogarden-cost.php
&
http://www.aerogrow.com/community/in.../177-faqs.html

and as I said, you can do the math to figure your cost, 60 watts
running 18/6 is not going to cost much as was pointed out. I’ve been
doing CEA since 89 and have a 400w HID I run that is half of your
monthly cost claim and its on 18/6.

Again, do not get caught up with trying to equating the watts with
the energy a plant needs at any one particuliar time. Lots of
variables in the equation. Just know, it is the amount of energy( EV,
FC,or Lms) that the plant receives that is important. IMO, unless
you are really tricky and can manage your setup and plants well ,
200ws of reading light is not going to flower your Strawberries, Toms
or your grass as it sounds like you have found out.

So despite their attempts to hide priority information so you have to
buy from them, I have found other source bulbs for what the A/G use,
google for a 2 pin, flat CFLs, rated @ between 21-27w ea and ~1500
lumen. See if that is your bulb. Please feel free to fact check.

Yes,I agree the A/G is essentially a worthless piece of equipment.
IMO the A/G is a toy DWC or a baby bubbler, if you prefer. It can be
build better and for a fraction of the cost.


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