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  #31   Report Post  
Old 09-07-2011, 07:26 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Miracle gro

"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:
"songbird" wrote:

has anyone grown cloves?


The spice? Sorry, I don't live in a tropical area.


When I lived in Los Angeles metro I saw a peppercorn bush at a farmers
market. Even there it was for indoors. You'd need a hot house to grow
a clove plant almost anywhere in the temperate zones.


Huh? Since when was a peppercorn a clove?


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Old 09-07-2011, 07:29 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Miracle gro

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:



Welcome, to Gunny's world, songbird. No facts, no references, but lots
of pronouncements and innuendo. Enjoy it, if you can.

Gunny enjoys arguments. In part he tries to do this by starting as many
arguments as possible, and as you nail him down on one, he will ignore
it, and attack a different argument (personal experience). Now, you may
feel like some light hearted bantering, but, trust me, he will take it
as a personal challenge to crush you. Personally, I think he is a
"tweaker", but that is an unsubstantiated opinion.


yeah, i figured that out for several folks
already, but if they decide they actually
want to talk gardening practices and actual
experiences then i'd still listen.

Derald does seem to actually grow things
in intensive and small interplantings which
to me is a really productive way to grow a
lot of produce and it does keep the soil
covered more than monocropping and leaving
the ground idle. so he's worth listening
to when he's not on about you or being
idiotically obtuse. i suspect they are
both somehow connected to the agribusiness
or the chemical business or perhaps even
big oil. not that they've had the guts
to give any of their backgrounds here...

tis the season of hot airs...

(btw Gunner assuming someone is one
gender or another on usenet is pointless
as i'm not here to wave my genitalia
around to prove my gardening prowess,
but perhaps that is what you need to
be impressed)


....much snipped...
Gunny, give an example of a faux google reference that I have given,
please, or continue to show yourself as an idiot.

Now, as far as implying that chemferts kill soil life, I don't imply, I
quote experts.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis


i suppose these are just beer swilling
high school dropouts without any actual
soil science experiences... or?


http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1
(Available at a library near you.)

Chapter 1

What Is the Soil Food Web and Why Should Gardeners Care?

Negative impacts on the soil food web

Chemical fertilizers negatively impact the soil food web by killing off
entire portions of it. What gardener hasn't seen what table salt does to
a slug? Fertilizers are salts; they suck the water out of the bacteria,
fungi, protozoa, and nematodes in the soil. Since these microbes are at
the very foundation of the soil food web nutrient system, you have to
keep adding fertilizer once you start using it regularly. The
microbiology is missing and not there to do its job, feeding the plants.


....much more snipped...

----

Lab tests may tell you where you are starting, but a properly maintained
garden will take you where you want to go.


but do you need them? i haven't
used one in all my years of gardening.
if i were in a place that had difficult
soils or severe climate (but one reason
i live where i do is that i don't want
to put up with arid soil gardening).


They did throw you a bone, Gunny-boy: a properly tuned ecological garden
rarely needs soluble fertilizers. That implies that there may be, on the
rare occasion, a place for chemferts.
QED

Meanwhile, back at the ranch.


no i do not have to imply that at all if
i tell the OP to not dump it at all then i've
helped them avoid the problems it can cause.


We all know that is a grossly
exagerrated lie. Nute salts are the same regardless. Ya just can't
change science and really, emperical data is so much more accurate
than your ilk's taste test method.


Classic Gunny. Do you still beat your wife, Gunny?
No attempt to show that the statement is a lie, just a simple
unsubstantiated declaration that Gunny knows best.


i never argue with drunks or people
with guns (if i can possibly know it).


As far as the nutrients from chemferts, and organic fertilizer being
equivalent, Gunny is WRONG. Nitrate is nitrate to be sure, but one
nitrate comes from a salt (that's bad, as you will know if you read the
above), and the other comes from organic material. Just another example
of Gunny-boy's ignorance, or another of his disingenuous prevarications.

Are you an ilk, songbird? Do you have a taste test?
Gunny-boy again makes accusations without substantiation.


i do have taste tests for a lot of
garden veggies and i sure know the
difference between a strawberry that
hasn't been sprayed with fungicides
and those that have. i love being
able to go out and have breakfast
right in the garden as i'm weeding
or picking without having to worry
about various poisons that are on
most produce that doesn't come from
organic means.

no ilk that i know of, but several
inklings and a severe case of impishness
at times.


if by emperical data you mean millions of
acres of destroyed top soil then you've got
all the evidence you need from dumping "Nute
salts" (whatever those are).


As for being free everything has a cost.

King of the bleeding obvious, Gunny-boy is.

Keep burning that wood birdie, love how that saves the environment!


i dunno how much more burning i'll be doing,
but talking about the carbon cycle from the
rotting of organic materials in the compost
pile (or buried in the ground) and comparing
that to what happens to the carbon when you
make charcoal and the various soil nutrition
aspects of that is probably a much more
scientific process than telling someone "ok,
dump that on the soil".

but whatever.


Not to mention the release into the environment of carbon that had been
long sequestered (gas and oil), instead of cycling the present carbon.
Three hundred and fifty parts per million of CO2 is considered safe, and
we are presently at 390 ppm CO2. As St Molly said, "When you find
yourself in a hole, stop digging."


yep, but the selfish buggers refuse to
stop their behaviors and that means that
millions will be displaced as a result
and likely millions will starve or die
in the mayhem.


Joining in the laughter!!


yuk yuk.


Why not? It's Gunny-boy, who is the joke ;O)

Bottom line, Gunny isn't interested at arriving at an understanding.
He, for some reason, wants an argument for arguments sake.


nothing wrong with that if he could actually
put a coherent argument together. so far i'd
say _not likely_.


songbird
  #33   Report Post  
Old 09-07-2011, 05:28 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Miracle gro

Kumbaya, my friend, kumbaya......Grow the **** up!

You sound like ole Preacher Jones," according to Luke, chapter 2,
verse.....If you don't believe the true word as I have truly spoken
from the very mouth of God , the world as we know it will end. I am
here to show you the TRUE light as only revealed to me by the man
himself....... Ignore that man behind the curtain"

Does that pretty much sum it up? The rest seems to be so much BS
rhetoric.

Since you ELFies hijacked the Conservation Agenda to breed with your
commune "we are the world" BS view, you have pretty muched ****ed up
the English speaking world's understanding of science. But your
"Expert" writers can always cherry pick enough crap to trow around and
get something to stick

The answer is still YES Miracle Gro is ok to use

  #34   Report Post  
Old 09-07-2011, 05:30 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Miracle gro

On Jul 9, 1:29*am, songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:


And still the answer is YES


  #35   Report Post  
Old 10-07-2011, 02:27 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Miracle gro

FarmI wrote:
"Doug Freyburger" wrote:

When I lived in Los Angeles metro I saw a peppercorn bush at a farmers
market. Even there it was for indoors. You'd need a hot house to grow
a clove plant almost anywhere in the temperate zones.


Huh? Since when was a peppercorn a clove?


Both well know tropicals. If you have the facilities to grow one you
should be able to grow the other. In LA metro even the peppercorn plant
needed to be kept in a hothouse. No way anyone in ConUS is going to be
able to grow a clove plant anywhere but a hothouse. Possibly in Hawaii
but definitely not in any of the continental states.


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Old 01-08-2011, 08:38 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Miracle gro

wow, your deep!

gotta say it still amazes me that you can tell all that for a internet reading. Psychic card reading and all that that black magic is amazing.

Oh here ya go on that Biochar thingie for you and your little eco group here. You boys can surely twist this one as you like. Your good at pseudo science.


http://www.re-char.com/2011/07/19/se...biochar-again/
  #37   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2011, 05:02 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default biochar

Gunner wrote:
....
Oh here ya go on that Biochar thingie for you and your little eco group here. You boys can surely twist this one as you like. Your good at pseudo science.


http://www.re-char.com/2011/07/19/se...biochar-again/


reads like a lightweight blog post but it
fairly reflects what i've seen elsewhere.

frauds and scammers galore, the buyer should
always educate themself.


songbird
  #38   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2011, 07:55 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default biochar

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Gunner wrote:
...
Oh here ya go on that Biochar thingie for you and your little eco group
here. You boys can surely twist this one as you like. Your good at pseudo
science.

"Ad hominem" is Gunny's middle name. Is English your second language?
YOU'RE not very good at it. What is this pseudo science of which you
speak, or do you even know?

Your fascination with "escape from nature" hydroponics seems to have
blinded you to the eco-system in which your organism lives, just as
surely as your lack of attention must be responsible for your not
recognizing that songbird is of the feminine persuasion.


http://www.re-char.com/2011/07/19/se...on-biochar-aga
in/


reads like a lightweight blog post but it
fairly reflects what i've seen elsewhere.

You are far too generous, songbird, to refer to this blog as lightweight.
Obviously Gunny isn't literate, or he would have noticed that the
article claims bio-char is good. The only real question posed in it is
how good.

Then the article wanders-off looking for a straw man to bash, and comes
up with the red herring of the "emission-free" biomass stove, which
should appeal to Gunny, because it is a no-brainer. What isn't addressed
is the fact that whatever emissions a biomass stove makes is small in
comparison to the amount of carbon sequestered in the char. That the
char from a millennia ago can still be found in the Amazon region (where
decomposition rates for organic materials is very high) seems to have
completely escaped Gunny's fallible powers of observation in his
egregiously weak, partisan attack on "organic" farming/gardening (which
is the motivating force behind most of his posts).

Lastly, the article that Gunny presents rails against the exploitation
of "cap and trade" in carbon credits. Beyond this exploitation is the
question of why these CO2 pollution credits are given freely, instead of
being sold, to polluters. That money could be used for off-sets, instead
of just lining polluters pockets.

frauds and scammers galore, the buyer should
always educate themself.

Hopefully, the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau established by
Elizabeth Warren will help (until corporations co-opt it), but the first
line of defense always needs to be self-defense. Caveat emptor.

songbird

--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And itšs not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. Thatšs hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they donšt get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis
  #39   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2011, 09:31 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default biochar

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:
...
Oh here ya go on that Biochar thingie for you and your little eco group
here. You boys can surely twist this one as you like. Your good at pseudo
science.


"Ad hominem" is Gunny's middle name. Is English your second language?
YOU'RE not very good at it. What is this pseudo science of which you
speak, or do you even know?

Your fascination with "escape from nature" hydroponics seems to have
blinded you to the eco-system in which your organism lives, just as
surely as your lack of attention must be responsible for your not
recognizing that songbird is of the feminine persuasion.


while i am in tune with my self and have no
specific concerns about which gender i appear
to be on-line i do find it amusing how people
pigeon hole me based upon a name. remember
your biological facts and you won't be wrong
in guessing.


http://www.re-char.com/2011/07/19/se...on-biochar-aga
in/


reads like a lightweight blog post but it
fairly reflects what i've seen elsewhere.


You are far too generous, songbird, to refer to this blog as lightweight.
Obviously Gunny isn't literate, or he would have noticed that the
article claims bio-char is good. The only real question posed in it is
how good.


i wasn't going to critique... not enough time
or energy at the moment.


Then the article wanders-off looking for a straw man to bash, and comes
up with the red herring of the "emission-free" biomass stove, which
should appeal to Gunny, because it is a no-brainer. What isn't addressed
is the fact that whatever emissions a biomass stove makes is small in
comparison to the amount of carbon sequestered in the char. That the
char from a millennia ago can still be found in the Amazon region (where
decomposition rates for organic materials is very high) seems to have
completely escaped Gunny's fallible powers of observation in his
egregiously weak, partisan attack on "organic" farming/gardening (which
is the motivating force behind most of his posts).


i have no idea what a biomass stove
is... i haven't looked it up.

as for sequestering carbon, at this
stage i'm glad for any help in getting
it done easily at low cost and with as
few emissions as possible.


Lastly, the article that Gunny presents rails against the exploitation
of "cap and trade" in carbon credits. Beyond this exploitation is the
question of why these CO2 pollution credits are given freely, instead of
being sold, to polluters. That money could be used for off-sets, instead
of just lining polluters pockets.


you'd hear "the end of the earth is coming!"
rhetoric if the USoA ever actually had a carbon
cap and trade system. the USoA has made a lot
of progress even without it in the past 20
years. i hope that progress continues.


frauds and scammers galore, the buyer should
always educate themself.

Hopefully, the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau established by
Elizabeth Warren will help (until corporations co-opt it), but the first
line of defense always needs to be self-defense. Caveat emptor.


we shall see. i suspect it will be quickly
defanged (if it has any teeth to begin with).


songbird
  #40   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2011, 05:10 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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"songbird" wrote in message
...
Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:
...
Oh here ya go on that Biochar thingie for you and your little eco
group
here. You boys can surely twist this one as you like. Your good at
pseudo
science.


"Ad hominem" is Gunny's middle name. Is English your second language?
YOU'RE not very good at it. What is this pseudo science of which you
speak, or do you even know?

Your fascination with "escape from nature" hydroponics seems to have
blinded you to the eco-system in which your organism lives, just as
surely as your lack of attention must be responsible for your not
recognizing that songbird is of the feminine persuasion.


while i am in tune with my self and have no
specific concerns about which gender i appear
to be on-line i do find it amusing how people
pigeon hole me based upon a name. remember
your biological facts and you won't be wrong
in guessing.


http://www.re-char.com/2011/07/19/se...on-biochar-aga
in/

reads like a lightweight blog post but it
fairly reflects what i've seen elsewhere.


You are far too generous, songbird, to refer to this blog as lightweight.
Obviously Gunny isn't literate, or he would have noticed that the
article claims bio-char is good. The only real question posed in it is
how good.


i wasn't going to critique... not enough time
or energy at the moment.


Then the article wanders-off looking for a straw man to bash, and comes
up with the red herring of the "emission-free" biomass stove, which
should appeal to Gunny, because it is a no-brainer. What isn't addressed
is the fact that whatever emissions a biomass stove makes is small in
comparison to the amount of carbon sequestered in the char. That the
char from a millennia ago can still be found in the Amazon region (where
decomposition rates for organic materials is very high) seems to have
completely escaped Gunny's fallible powers of observation in his
egregiously weak, partisan attack on "organic" farming/gardening (which
is the motivating force behind most of his posts).


i have no idea what a biomass stove
is... i haven't looked it up.

as for sequestering carbon, at this
stage i'm glad for any help in getting
it done easily at low cost and with as
few emissions as possible.


Lastly, the article that Gunny presents rails against the exploitation
of "cap and trade" in carbon credits. Beyond this exploitation is the
question of why these CO2 pollution credits are given freely, instead of
being sold, to polluters. That money could be used for off-sets, instead
of just lining polluters pockets.


you'd hear "the end of the earth is coming!"
rhetoric if the USoA ever actually had a carbon
cap and trade system. the USoA has made a lot
of progress even without it in the past 20
years. i hope that progress continues.


frauds and scammers galore, the buyer should
always educate themself.

Hopefully, the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau established by
Elizabeth Warren will help (until corporations co-opt it), but the first
line of defense always needs to be self-defense. Caveat emptor.


we shall see. i suspect it will be quickly
defanged (if it has any teeth to begin with).


songbird


As in, only the males birds sing.




  #41   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2011, 02:37 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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In article ,
says...

"songbird" wrote in message
...
Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:
...
Oh here ya go on that Biochar thingie for you and your little eco
group
here. You boys can surely twist this one as you like. Your good at
pseudo
science.


"Ad hominem" is Gunny's middle name. Is English your second language?
YOU'RE not very good at it. What is this pseudo science of which you
speak, or do you even know?

Your fascination with "escape from nature" hydroponics seems to have
blinded you to the eco-system in which your organism lives, just as
surely as your lack of attention must be responsible for your not
recognizing that songbird is of the feminine persuasion.


while i am in tune with my self and have no
specific concerns about which gender i appear
to be on-line i do find it amusing how people
pigeon hole me based upon a name. remember
your biological facts and you won't be wrong
in guessing.


http://www.re-char.com/2011/07/19/se...on-biochar-aga
in/

reads like a lightweight blog post but it
fairly reflects what i've seen elsewhere.


You are far too generous, songbird, to refer to this blog as lightweight.
Obviously Gunny isn't literate, or he would have noticed that the
article claims bio-char is good. The only real question posed in it is
how good.


i wasn't going to critique... not enough time
or energy at the moment.


Then the article wanders-off looking for a straw man to bash, and comes
up with the red herring of the "emission-free" biomass stove, which
should appeal to Gunny, because it is a no-brainer. What isn't addressed
is the fact that whatever emissions a biomass stove makes is small in
comparison to the amount of carbon sequestered in the char. That the
char from a millennia ago can still be found in the Amazon region (where
decomposition rates for organic materials is very high) seems to have
completely escaped Gunny's fallible powers of observation in his
egregiously weak, partisan attack on "organic" farming/gardening (which
is the motivating force behind most of his posts).


i have no idea what a biomass stove
is... i haven't looked it up.

as for sequestering carbon, at this
stage i'm glad for any help in getting
it done easily at low cost and with as
few emissions as possible.


Lastly, the article that Gunny presents rails against the exploitation
of "cap and trade" in carbon credits. Beyond this exploitation is the
question of why these CO2 pollution credits are given freely, instead of
being sold, to polluters. That money could be used for off-sets, instead
of just lining polluters pockets.


you'd hear "the end of the earth is coming!"
rhetoric if the USoA ever actually had a carbon
cap and trade system. the USoA has made a lot
of progress even without it in the past 20
years. i hope that progress continues.


frauds and scammers galore, the buyer should
always educate themself.

Hopefully, the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau established by
Elizabeth Warren will help (until corporations co-opt it), but the first
line of defense always needs to be self-defense. Caveat emptor.


we shall see. i suspect it will be quickly
defanged (if it has any teeth to begin with).


songbird


As in, only the males birds sing.


....The rule doesn't cut across all species.
  #42   Report Post  
Old 04-08-2011, 02:47 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 330
Default biochar

On Aug 1, 8:02*am, songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:


http://www.re-char.com/2011/07/19/se...raight-on-bioc...


* reads like a lightweight blog post but it
fairly reflects what i've seen elsewhere.


i have no idea what a biomass stove
is... i haven't looked it up.

(snipped from below)


Really,.... Biochar? Well Bird, you need to have an " idea what a
biomass stove
is... " to understand biochar.

Charcoal, on the other hand? Yah. just burn a bunch of wood, perhaps
you will get some benefit somehow, maybe as a fluffly stuff or as a
nutrient source of some sort, otherwise you just blowing smoke L&F.
Wood ashes contain about 6 per cent potash, plus a good bit of some
lime. A good burn of Corn cobs might give you more potash for your
particular soil- 20-30 % perhaps. Just don't burn manure plies for
the ash. So again, regardless of a soil test or a soil taste, what
does the soil type need? A bit more potassium and Lime? Any idea of
the pH your plant need? Misuse, as well as overuse is stupid. I
think most will agree to that, except maybe billy. It has to be his
lazy man, no till, bury it and they will come but you have to endure
his political BS enroute

* frauds and scammers galore, the buyer should
always educate themself.


As the man adeptly points out in his "lightweight article" and the
reason I gave it. Zealots like billy attempt to BS about it being
some sorta panacea mysticism. But that is just pseudoscience version
billy pushes. The little pearl of an epiphany that only the devout
can see. So you buy into his version? Does "evil chemferts" kill
soil?

Really you want to read deeper or R U just posturing for position
like billy? If so join in one of the Google Biochar groups like
this" http://groups.google.com/group/bioch...32ea18b4bc957a.

Please take note, these guys are not the usual Book Writers oft
referenced here as subject matter experts. Some of these guys are
real serious players and not so theory lite, although your results
may vary in your locale. Perhaps you can translate for billy as he &
his are still a bit clueless since they read 1491 and this lame
attempt to integrate terrre peta into to his great global hope will
get some sort of traction.

Still gotta say I am impressed with your Shamanista abilities in
analyzing that man's soil solely over the Internet, quite a mystic
feat. Indulge me for a moment for curiosity sake, what was the CEC
and potassium level of the man's soil?

BTW, still the answer is YES, it is OK to use Miracle Gro, but you
know that. The rest is just posturing
  #43   Report Post  
Old 04-08-2011, 03:00 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On Aug 1, 10:55*am, Billy wrote:
In article ,


Your fascination with "escape from nature" hydroponics seems to have

blinded you to the eco-system in which your organism lives, just as
surely as your lack of attention must be responsible for your not
recognizing that songbird is of the feminine persuasion.

Ohh billy! You been played boy and you still don't get it.

Take a bit of your own political advice and go pound yourself in the
ass.

Power up that scooter chair billy boy, its a quick fast ride to the
future and your already struggling trying to keep up.

My bet is you never been in the tropics or much less spent time in
any environment besides sitting your little backyard garden trying to
spin your BS.

Admit it billy you never been anywhere nor done anything in your
little miserable existence. Your just another Walter Mitty being a
legend in your own mind.

Hopefully you will someday know how ignorant your statement above is.
but I doubt it.

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Old 05-08-2011, 08:30 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 330
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On Aug 1, 10:55*am, Billy ignorantly wrote:

Your fascination with "escape from nature" hydroponics seems to have
blinded you to the eco-system in which your organism lives,


I assume this ignorance means something to you and your pseudoscience
beliefs ? Perhaps when the lithium begins to take effect you will be
able recall what it was. Meanwhile, have you ever spent time in
nature except in your Walter Mitty mind?

Until then, I believe I called songbird a Shamanista, which is
colloquial gringo word play for medicine woman, her being all
clairvoyant and such. A word which you later repeat. However, if you
insist that she is of the feminine persuasion, who am I to stop ya.

Before you try to tell everyone that you have KF ... again as you
always do please send me your shoe size, I'll get ya some peppermint
tennis shoes for the many times ya got your foot, or what ever, in
your mouth.

Meantime, it seems funny that I can grow plants using water and the
evil chemicals you are telling everyone kills soil, plants and people.
However you may have a point, my bonsai seems not to have any soil
after I use fertilizers. Some even organic. Oh right, ...never
mind I didn't put any soil in , opps, my bad.
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:08 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default biochar

not likely
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