Something's in the ground where I raise tomatoes, killing the back row.
I planted them about 3 feet forward last year and it didn't happen (I had
a bumper crop), but this year I've lost the back row again.
They just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.
There's no sign of cut worms and it's been an established gardening spot
for 15 years, with only tomatoes for 10.
I've been told by an old timer that there's a blight in the ground and
it's moving forward. I've also been told it's walnut blight as there's a
walnut tree about 30 feet away, but I've not found any roots in the ground,
but it's only been tilled to about 10 inches deep.
The tomatoe patch is mulched with landscaping fabric (black plastic) with
pine chips on top.
Whatever it is kills hybrids as well as heirlooms.
Anyone have any idea what it sould be, and if I make it a raised bed would
it stop?

Thanks

Homercles wrote:

Something's in the ground where I raise tomatoes, killing the back row.
I planted them about 3 feet forward last year and it didn't happen (I had
a bumper crop), but this year I've lost the back row again.
They just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.
There's no sign of cut worms and it's been an established gardening spot
for 15 years, with only tomatoes for 10.
I've been told by an old timer that there's a blight in the ground and
it's moving forward. I've also been told it's walnut blight as there's a
walnut tree about 30 feet away, but I've not found any roots in the ground,
but it's only been tilled to about 10 inches deep.
The tomatoe patch is mulched with landscaping fabric (black plastic) with
pine chips on top.
Whatever it is kills hybrids as well as heirlooms.
Anyone have any idea what it sould be, and if I make it a raised bed would
it stop?

need more info.

how do you prepare your gardens/soil and
grow your tomatoes?

not sure, what it almost sounds like to me
is that your shade might be increasing if you
have surrounding trees that are growing taller.
but dunno for sure as i'm not there to see
the layout... tomatoes are dry weather loving
plants that like plenty of sunshine. if you
get rainy and cloudy spells or you are getting
more shade then that could set the plants up
for fungal attack or other diseases (wilts,
viral, whatever).

i have not had your problem, but we rotate
tomatoes through our gardens -- rarely putting
them in the same place more than one year in
a row.

i have heard suggestions to do soil tests to
see what the pH is and then change it severely
the next few seasons to try to discourage whatever
it is (and not put tomatoes, peppers, eggplant
or potatoes in that space again until the third
or fourth year).

also i have heard of cover planting the area
with onions, garlic, chives and mustards to help
change the soil.

because i've not had your problem i can't say
if these work or not.

one thing that does sound more useful is to
dig a trench and bury the top foot or two of
the soil down deep and that might also help
break the cycle. we do this for almost all
the gardens here once in a while as we incorporate
the last season's debris into the ground again.
this way any fungi that are in the top layer of
soil are not left to easily start up again the
next season. it also helps break up the hard
layer of clay we have underneath everything
here. through the years the soil improves as
we keep working organic materials down further
and this helps the plants survive droughts
and heat waves better as they can get their
roots down further quicker/easier.

i've kinda wandered all over here in this
reply, but perhaps some of it can help. you
can always try parts of this on different
areas of the patch and see what helps the
most...


songbird

"Homercles" nobodyhere.edu wrote in message
.. .
Something's in the ground where I raise tomatoes, killing the back row.
I planted them about 3 feet forward last year and it didn't happen (I had
a bumper crop), but this year I've lost the back row again.
They just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.
There's no sign of cut worms and it's been an established gardening spot
for 15 years, with only tomatoes for 10.
I've been told by an old timer that there's a blight in the ground and
it's moving forward. I've also been told it's walnut blight as there's a
walnut tree about 30 feet away, but I've not found any roots in the
ground,
but it's only been tilled to about 10 inches deep.
The tomatoe patch is mulched with landscaping fabric (black plastic) with
pine chips on top.
Whatever it is kills hybrids as well as heirlooms.
Anyone have any idea what it sould be, and if I make it a raised bed would
it stop?

Thanks

A raised bed won't help, it's the walnut roots. 30 feet is not nearly far
enough away for tomatoes. The roots produce a plant toxin called juglone,
tomatoes are particularly sensitive.

In article ,
Homercles nobodyhere.edu wrote:

Something's in the ground where I raise tomatoes, killing the back row.
I planted them about 3 feet forward last year and it didn't happen (I had
a bumper crop), but this year I've lost the back row again.
They just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.
There's no sign of cut worms and it's been an established gardening spot
for 15 years, with only tomatoes for 10.
I've been told by an old timer that there's a blight in the ground and
it's moving forward. I've also been told it's walnut blight as there's a
walnut tree about 30 feet away, but I've not found any roots in the ground,
but it's only been tilled to about 10 inches deep.
The tomatoe patch is mulched with landscaping fabric (black plastic) with
pine chips on top.
Whatever it is kills hybrids as well as heirlooms.
Anyone have any idea what it sould be, and if I make it a raised bed would
it stop?

Thanks

I'd go with the ol' timer. It sounds like some form of wilt. If that is
the case, you will need to either find tomatoes that are resistant to
Fusarium wilt, and Verticillium wilt, e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tomato_cultivars tomatoes marked
with an "F" or a "V", or avoid planting any members of the genus Solanum
(potato, tomato, eggplant) in that area for several years (minimum).
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

Steve Peek wrote:
....
A raised bed won't help, it's the walnut roots. 30 feet is not nearly far
enough away for tomatoes. The roots produce a plant toxin called juglone,
tomatoes are particularly sensitive.

ah! good one. he even said it in
the post. duh. i must be getting
senile.


songbird

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Homercles nobodyhere.edu wrote:

Something's in the ground where I raise tomatoes, killing the back row.
I planted them about 3 feet forward last year and it didn't happen (I
had
a bumper crop), but this year I've lost the back row again.
They just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.
There's no sign of cut worms and it's been an established gardening spot
for 15 years, with only tomatoes for 10.
I've been told by an old timer that there's a blight in the ground and
it's moving forward. I've also been told it's walnut blight as there's a
walnut tree about 30 feet away, but I've not found any roots in the
ground,
but it's only been tilled to about 10 inches deep.
The tomatoe patch is mulched with landscaping fabric (black plastic)
with
pine chips on top.
Whatever it is kills hybrids as well as heirlooms.
Anyone have any idea what it sould be, and if I make it a raised bed
would
it stop?

Thanks

I'd go with the ol' timer. It sounds like some form of wilt. If that is
the case, you will need to either find tomatoes that are resistant to
Fusarium wilt, and Verticillium wilt, e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tomato_cultivars tomatoes marked
with an "F" or a "V", or avoid planting any members of the genus Solanum
(potato, tomato, eggplant) in that area for several years (minimum).


I would be tempted to dig them out and check the roots for nematodes. An
idea of what to look for http://www.avrdc.org/pdf/tomato/nematode.pdf here.

Mike

ahhhh, very helpful. After reading these posts I went and dug out one of my dying plants and yep, I think I have nematodes.

thanks!

Lisa

I would be tempted to dig them out and check the roots for nematodes. An
idea of what to look for http://www.avrdc.org/pdf/tomato/nematode.pdf here.

Mike[/quote]

On Aug 12, 6:59*am, Homercles nobodyhere.edu wrote:
Something's in the ground where I raise tomatoes, killing the back row. *
* I planted them about 3 feet forward last year and it didn't happen (I had
a bumper crop), but this year I've lost the back row again.
They just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.
There's no sign of cut worms and it's been an established gardening spot
for 15 years, with only tomatoes for 10.
*I've been told by an old timer that there's a blight in the ground and
it's moving forward. I've also been told it's walnut blight as there's a
walnut tree about 30 feet away, but I've not found any roots in the ground,
but it's only been tilled to about 10 inches deep.
*The tomatoe patch is mulched with landscaping fabric (black plastic) with
pine chips on top.
*Whatever it is kills hybrids as well as heirlooms.
Anyone have any idea what it sould be, and if I make it a raised bed would
it stop?

*Thanks

Sounds like blight or some fungus (the walnut tree toxins would kill
the tomato plants right away, not after they grow 2 to 3 feet).

Not much you can do, sorry to say, other then commercial fungicides.
You can try not planting tomatoes in that area for several years, even
then, many weeds can host the blight and keep it alive and happy
waiting for your tomatoes to return.

"fsadfa" wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 6:59 am, Homercles nobodyhere.edu wrote:
Something's in the ground where I raise tomatoes, killing the back row.
I planted them about 3 feet forward last year and it didn't happen (I had
a bumper crop), but this year I've lost the back row again.
They just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.
There's no sign of cut worms and it's been an established gardening spot
for 15 years, with only tomatoes for 10.
I've been told by an old timer that there's a blight in the ground and
it's moving forward. I've also been told it's walnut blight as there's a
walnut tree about 30 feet away, but I've not found any roots in the
ground,
but it's only been tilled to about 10 inches deep.
The tomatoe patch is mulched with landscaping fabric (black plastic) with
pine chips on top.
Whatever it is kills hybrids as well as heirlooms.
Anyone have any idea what it sould be, and if I make it a raised bed would
it stop?

Thanks

Sounds like blight or some fungus (the walnut tree toxins would kill
the tomato plants right away, not after they grow 2 to 3 feet).



True, if the toxins are in the top layer of soil, but not if the toxins are
carried there by deep walnut roots. The tomato plants have to grow their
roots to the depth of the walnut roots. Any blight or fungus would quickly
spread across the whole garden.

Get rid of the walnut and the problem will go away. True, it will take some
years for the juglone to leach from the soil, but it will. There's too many
profound statement made without any forethought. Read the original post &
think before you pontificate.

On Aug 16, 3:55*pm, "Steve Peek" wrote:
"fsadfa" wrote in message

...
On Aug 12, 6:59 am, Homercles nobodyhere.edu wrote:





Something's in the ground where I raise tomatoes, killing the back row.
I planted them about 3 feet forward last year and it didn't happen (I had
a bumper crop), but this year I've lost the back row again.
They just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.
There's no sign of cut worms and it's been an established gardening spot
for 15 years, with only tomatoes for 10.
I've been told by an old timer that there's a blight in the ground and
it's moving forward. I've also been told it's walnut blight as there's a
walnut tree about 30 feet away, but I've not found any roots in the
ground,
but it's only been tilled to about 10 inches deep.
The tomatoe patch is mulched with landscaping fabric (black plastic) with
pine chips on top.
Whatever it is kills hybrids as well as heirlooms.
Anyone have any idea what it sould be, and if I make it a raised bed would
it stop?

Thanks

Sounds like blight or some fungus (the walnut tree toxins would kill
the tomato plants right away, not after they grow 2 to 3 feet).

True, if the toxins are in the top layer of soil, but not if the toxins are
carried there by deep walnut roots. The tomato plants have to grow their
roots to the depth of the walnut roots. Any blight or fungus would quickly
spread across the whole garden.

Get rid of the walnut and the problem will go away. True, it will take some
years for the juglone to leach from the soil, but it will. There's too many
profound statement made without any forethought. Read the original post &
think before you pontificate.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

your ego is bruised easier than a ripe tomato, maybe you need a 4 hour
ego booster shot before reading the forum

On Aug 12, 7:38*am, songbird wrote:
Homercles wrote:
Something's in the ground where I raise tomatoes, killing the back row. *
* I planted them about 3 feet forward last year and it didn't happen (I had
a bumper crop), but this year I've lost the back row again.
They just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.
There's no sign of cut worms and it's been an established gardening spot
for 15 years, with only tomatoes for 10.
*I've been told by an old timer that there's a blight in the ground and
it's moving forward. I've also been told it's walnut blight as there's a
walnut tree about 30 feet away, but I've not found any roots in the ground,
but it's only been tilled to about 10 inches deep.
*The tomatoe patch is mulched with landscaping fabric (black plastic) with
pine chips on top.
*Whatever it is kills hybrids as well as heirlooms.
Anyone have any idea what it sould be, and if I make it a raised bed would
it stop?

* need more info.

* how do you prepare your gardens/soil and
grow your tomatoes?

* not sure, what it almost sounds like to me
is that your shade might be increasing if you
have surrounding trees that are growing taller.
but dunno for sure as i'm not there to see
the layout... *tomatoes are dry weather loving
plants that like plenty of sunshine. *if you
get rainy and cloudy spells or you are getting
more shade then that could set the plants up
for fungal attack or other diseases (wilts,
viral, whatever).

* i have not had your problem, but we rotate
tomatoes through our gardens -- rarely putting
them in the same place more than one year in
a row.

* i have heard suggestions to do soil tests to
see what the pH is and then change it severely
the next few seasons to try to discourage whatever
it is (and not put tomatoes, peppers, eggplant
or potatoes in that space again until the third
or fourth year).

* also i have heard of cover planting the area
with onions, garlic, chives and mustards to help
change the soil.

* because i've not had your problem i can't say
if these work or not.

* one thing that does sound more useful is to
dig a trench and bury the top foot or two of
the soil down deep and that might also help
break the cycle. *we do this for almost all
the gardens here once in a while as we incorporate
the last season's debris into the ground again.
this way any fungi that are in the top layer of
soil are not left to easily start up again the
next season. *it also helps break up the hard
layer of clay we have underneath everything
here. *through the years the soil improves as
we keep working organic materials down further
and this helps the plants survive droughts
and heat waves better as they can get their
roots down further quicker/easier.

* i've kinda wandered all over here in this
reply, but perhaps some of it can help. *you
can always try parts of this on different
areas of the patch and see what helps the
most... *

* songbird

sounds like a definite sorta maybe I don't know what you have but I'm
going to tell you anyway!

good job bird!

Gunner wrote:
....
good job bird!

love you too gunny. i hope you sleep better
now.


songbird

Homercles nobodyhere.edu wrote:

[Tomatoes] just wilt and die after they get about 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall.

Have a look at:

http://www.avrdc.org/pdf/tomato/bacterial_wilt.pdf [1]

The pic there of brown, wilted plants is just what ours look like this
year. We've planted tomatoes there for a decade. Last year there was
some of this. This year the plants grew vigorously and 3' tall,
blossomed and set fruit, then began to wilt just before the first
tomatoes began to ripen. Doesn't effect the fruit directly so we're
getting lots of tomatoes but not as many as we would had the plants
continued to flourish. We've had a damper that usual summer with more
night fogs and our potatoes were hit with a very similar wilt, as
well. The PDF (above) says:

Soil is the primary source of the disease. The bacterium can
survive in soil for extended periods without a host plant. This
bacterium exists as a group of variants or races, each of which
attack certain plant groups. Major host plants include potato,
tobacco, eggplant, banana and plantain; secondary hosts include
pepper, peanut (groundnut), sweet potato, and many weeds.


Another patch, 20' away, is showing none of the wilt. So next year,
we're moving the tomatoes to the present sweet corn patch and
starting a new potato patch on ground I've cleared of brambles and
goldenrod. I'm also going to replace all my wooden tomato stakes next
year lest they carry the infectious agent.

We do have a walnut tree but it's 100' away and only 4' high -- very
unlikely to be relevant.


[1] Use this URL to see a list of files on tomato diseases:

http://www.avrdc.org/pdf/tomato/

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada