Ross@home wrote:

....re soybeans...

That's one bean we don't have to spend any time shelling.
Soybeans are a huge cash crop around this area with many thousands of
acres grown each year. We can get more than we need of already shelled
soybeans quite easily.
Many pounds are spilled when the harvested beans are transferred from
the combines to the waiting trucks.
I've never been denied permission to retreive some of the spilled
beans when I've asked.

yes, i could do that too, but i don't want
glyphosate resistant soybeans (which are what
99+% of farmers grow around here). this is
also soybean/corn growing country (a few
farmers grow sugar beets).

the taste is noticeably different compared
to what i grew last year. those were beans
picked off the ground from the field next to
us. won't do that again.


songbird

Many thanks to all for the responses on how to grow soy beans.

Now, to respond to 'bird:
"songbird" wrote in message

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

and didn't like those for taste as much as the few
lbs i picked up from the health food store that were
labelled organic. i planted those this year and the
difference was noticeable in terms of season, the
ones i planted turned brown several weeks later than
the soybean fields around us.

Was that too late in the season for you or was the alteness a good thing?
Are you going to save some of your current harvest for replanting next year?

i space them 4-6 inches apart and rows a foot apart.
1-2 inches deep, they have pretty big leaves and smother
anything growing within a few feet of them so don't plan
on planting anything right next to them, or you can do
what i did with some of them to thin them out (so the
strawberries got some sunshine) i just trimmed off some
of the leaves. i used the trimmings for green manure
and worm farm food. chickens would probably eat them.

:-)) Perhaps our cows would like some rather than giving them to my chooks.
My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come running at the
thought of some animal protein on offer - the cows come for green tidbits if
they are in the paddock close to the veg garden :-))



if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

harvesting by hand is a bit of work, but i like
being outside picking. stripping the stalks is not
too bad if you wait until the leaves have dried
and fallen off and the pods are mostly dry (i.e. not
green). i can pick three to four paper bags of pods
in several hours. long sleeved shirt required. it's
picky and dusty.

the shelling is also dusty, but there are methods
for doing that where you can avoid the dust too. i
put the dry pods in a pillow case and stomp on them for
a while. sort them from the chaff by dumping them from
box to box in a good breeze or if it is too windy and
rainy i use an inclined plane made out of cardboard and
they roll down it as i squish and crumple the pods to
get the beans out. i wear thin rubber gloves because
the pods will stick to cotton gloves.

i'm sure that beating the pillow case with a
baseball bat would probably work too.

the usual 90/10 rule applies, to get the first
90% of the beans takes 10% of the time and effort.
if i had chickens or pigs i'd not even bother with
the last 10% and let them pick through to get
those, but as i have both time and patience i end
up going for almost every bean i can find in the
pods. then later on, i go through and pick out
the beans i don't want to use for soymilk and put
those in the worm food bucket. the chaff gets
recycled back to the gardens one way or another
too. it makes good worm bedding eventually.

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses to my
email addy for future reference. I might even try some this year if I can
squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on the tight side now.

FarmI wrote:
Many thanks to all for the responses on how to grow soy beans.

Now, to respond to 'bird:
"songbird" wrote in message

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

That would be the case.


and didn't like those for taste as much as the few
lbs i picked up from the health food store that were
labelled organic. i planted those this year and the
difference was noticeable in terms of season, the
ones i planted turned brown several weeks later than
the soybean fields around us.

Was that too late in the season for you or was the alteness a good
thing? Are you going to save some of your current harvest for
replanting next year?

i space them 4-6 inches apart and rows a foot apart.
1-2 inches deep, they have pretty big leaves and smother
anything growing within a few feet of them so don't plan
on planting anything right next to them, or you can do
what i did with some of them to thin them out (so the
strawberries got some sunshine) i just trimmed off some
of the leaves. i used the trimmings for green manure
and worm farm food. chickens would probably eat them.

:-)) Perhaps our cows would like some rather than giving them to my
chooks. My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come
running at the thought of some animal protein on offer -

I lifted up some rubbish while the chooks were watching and I uncovered a
mouse nest. The mice all ran for it, mother disappeared into the grass, the
pink babes disappeared into the chooks in about 10 seconds, I was nearly
knocked down in the rush.


the cows
come for green tidbits if they are in the paddock close to the veg
garden :-))


The horses will come and coach us over the fence when we are in the garden
to make sure we do it right and to ensure we give them some.


if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

harvesting by hand is a bit of work, but i like
being outside picking. stripping the stalks is not
too bad if you wait until the leaves have dried
and fallen off and the pods are mostly dry (i.e. not
green). i can pick three to four paper bags of pods
in several hours. long sleeved shirt required. it's
picky and dusty.

the shelling is also dusty, but there are methods
for doing that where you can avoid the dust too. i
put the dry pods in a pillow case and stomp on them for
a while. sort them from the chaff by dumping them from
box to box in a good breeze or if it is too windy and
rainy i use an inclined plane made out of cardboard and
they roll down it as i squish and crumple the pods to
get the beans out. i wear thin rubber gloves because
the pods will stick to cotton gloves.

i'm sure that beating the pillow case with a
baseball bat would probably work too.

the usual 90/10 rule applies, to get the first
90% of the beans takes 10% of the time and effort.
if i had chickens or pigs i'd not even bother with
the last 10% and let them pick through to get
those, but as i have both time and patience i end
up going for almost every bean i can find in the
pods. then later on, i go through and pick out
the beans i don't want to use for soymilk and put
those in the worm food bucket. the chaff gets
recycled back to the gardens one way or another
too. it makes good worm bedding eventually.

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses
to my email addy for future reference. I might even try some this
year if I can squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on
the tight side now.

OK aside from "milk" and stock feed what would you do with them on a small
scale? Is it sensible (possible) to make any of the multitude of soy
products domestically that are made commercially?

David

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:
...
Enjoy your phytoestrogens. If you don't already have tits, this is the
product for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens#Food_sources

do you even read the cites you quote?
You seem to understand the explicit meanings of the words, but not the
implicit meaning of the text. Next time I'll try to find something with
pictures for you.
The operative word here is PHYTOESTROGEN.

once again billy, the first paragraph shoots
you down. read it. i'll underline the relevant
part for you.


funny. there's no mention of increased man boobs in
the article.

also noted the list of products containing: nuts, legumes,
beer, bourbon, hops (among others).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#Phytoestrogen
Phytoestrogen
Main article: Phytoestrogens
Soybeans contain isoflavones called genistein and daidzein, which are
one source of phytoestrogens in the human diet. Because most naturally
occurring estrogenic substances show weak activity, normal consumption
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

of foods that contain these phytoestrogens should not provide sufficient
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

amounts to elicit a physiological response in humans.[102]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^
Well, I started this as amusement, but I see that you want to be a
"winner". So be it. As I understand it, tofu is used as a condiment in
Japan, not the central element of the meal. That said, pray tell me what
normal consumption is.


Plant lignans associated with high fiber foods such as cereal brans and
beans are the principal precursor to mammalian lignans which have an
ability to bind to human estrogen sites. Soybeans are a significant
source of mammalian lignan precursor secoisolariciresinol containing
13–273Â*μg/100Â*g dry weight.[103] Another phytoestrogen in the human diet
with estrogen activity is coumestans, which are found in beans,
split-peas, with the best sources being alfalfa, clover, and soybean
sprouts. Coumestrol, an isoflavone coumarin derivative is the only
coumestan in foods.[104][105]

Soybeans and processed soy foods are among the richest foods in total
phytoestrogens (wet basis per 100g), which are present primarily in the
form of the isoflavones daidzein and genistein.[106]


songbird
--
- Billy

E pluribus unum
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

FarmI wrote:

Many thanks to all for the responses on how to grow soy beans.

you're welcome!


Now, to respond to 'bird:

songbird wrote:

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

yes, of course sold by you know who.


and didn't like those for taste as much as the few
lbs i picked up from the health food store that were
labelled organic. i planted those this year and the
difference was noticeable in terms of season, the
ones i planted turned brown several weeks later than
the soybean fields around us.

Was that too late in the season for you or was the alteness a good thing?

the lateness was not desireable as it means
the gardens are tied up for a few weeks longer.
like i'm just out now working on most of the
large bean patch (where i grew most of the 18
kinds of beans).

it is interesting though that some patches
on the dryer soils finished earlier and those
are what i'm shelling out now. the pods that
are still greenish and drying, i'm not sure
what the quality of the beans will be so i'm
keeping those separate and for last. they
might all end up as worm food. dunno yet.
probably a week or two away from even looking
at them again.


Are you going to save some of your current harvest for replanting next year?

yes, i'll do that, as next year the fields
around us are all going to be corn so the
possibilities of contamination from the soybeans
in the distant fields will be minimal.

if i can find an earlier variety from an
organic source then i'll switch some to
test them for taste. and then if the taste
is ok, i'll switch the whole crop.

when picking i noticed around 5 different
kinds of soybeans (from the shape of the
pods, hairyness, color, etc). if the weather
gets odd it won't hurt to have some variation
in there. i'll probably keep growing at
least one patch of these just to keep the
seeds available.


i space them 4-6 inches apart and rows a foot apart.
1-2 inches deep, they have pretty big leaves and smother
anything growing within a few feet of them so don't plan
on planting anything right next to them, or you can do
what i did with some of them to thin them out (so the
strawberries got some sunshine) i just trimmed off some
of the leaves. i used the trimmings for green manure
and worm farm food. chickens would probably eat them.

:-)) Perhaps our cows would like some rather than giving them to my chooks.
My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come running at the
thought of some animal protein on offer - the cows come for green tidbits if
they are in the paddock close to the veg garden :-))

i don't even know if they'd eat soybeans
or not, but the worms eat them eventually
or if they sprout and get chopped down they
work for greens.


if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

after getting so little return at the bank
it's nice to have something that does well.


harvesting by hand is a bit of work, but i like
being outside picking. stripping the stalks is not
too bad if you wait until the leaves have dried
and fallen off and the pods are mostly dry (i.e. not
green). i can pick three to four paper bags of pods
in several hours. long sleeved shirt required. it's
picky and dusty.

the shelling is also dusty, but there are methods
for doing that where you can avoid the dust too. i
put the dry pods in a pillow case and stomp on them for
a while. sort them from the chaff by dumping them from
box to box in a good breeze or if it is too windy and
rainy i use an inclined plane made out of cardboard and
they roll down it as i squish and crumple the pods to
get the beans out. i wear thin rubber gloves because
the pods will stick to cotton gloves.

i'm sure that beating the pillow case with a
baseball bat would probably work too.

the usual 90/10 rule applies, to get the first
90% of the beans takes 10% of the time and effort.
if i had chickens or pigs i'd not even bother with
the last 10% and let them pick through to get
those, but as i have both time and patience i end
up going for almost every bean i can find in the
pods. then later on, i go through and pick out
the beans i don't want to use for soymilk and put
those in the worm food bucket. the chaff gets
recycled back to the gardens one way or another
too. it makes good worm bedding eventually.

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses to my
email addy for future reference. I might even try some this year if I can
squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on the tight side now.

questions always ok, this e-mail address is
good.


songbird

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

That would be the case.

I certainly suspected that would be the case too given that tests show
cotnamination of so many supposedly no-GMO soybeans.
chooks. My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come
running at the thought of some animal protein on offer -

I lifted up some rubbish while the chooks were watching and I uncovered a
mouse nest. The mice all ran for it, mother disappeared into the grass,
the pink babes disappeared into the chooks in about 10 seconds, I was
nearly knocked down in the rush.

Yup. Love their protein do chooks and chooklets. I feed mine curl grubs as
I find them when I seive the compost. I call the girls and they come as
fast as they can go rolling from isde to side and looking like rollicking
sailors who are wearing fluffy drawers

the cows
come for green tidbits if they are in the paddock close to the veg
garden :-))


The horses will come and coach us over the fence when we are in the garden
to make sure we do it right and to ensure we give them some.

Stickybeaks are horses and cows.

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses
to my email addy for future reference. I might even try some this
year if I can squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on
the tight side now.

OK aside from "milk" and stock feed what would you do with them on a small
scale? Is it sensible (possible) to make any of the multitude of soy
products domestically that are made commercially?

Tofu. It's easy to make and the process is not dissimilar to making soft
white cheese.

Years ago, I read on an ng how a poster made hers. the instructions made it
sound easy and I ahd all the ingredients so set to with a will. As/after I
made it, I realised that she was full of shit and had never made it at all
and had merely posted instructions she'd found online. While I was making
it, I found that the containers she mentioned werent' big enough to hold
the amount of liquid she said they would so did a trip to the shop to buy
new plastic buckets (plural). Then I found the coagulant she mentioned (and
don't ask me now what it was) didn't work as she said it should so after
thinking about it I decided that lemon juice should work but again needed to
go to the shop for more lemons. It was rather fraught at the time, but it
worked out fine in the end.

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:
Many thanks to all for the responses on how to grow soy beans.

Now, to respond to 'bird:
"songbird" wrote in message

i've grown them from picking up seeds from the
field next to us (likely a glyphosate resistant variety)

And possibly also a GMO soy bean do you think?

That would be the case.


and didn't like those for taste as much as the few
lbs i picked up from the health food store that were
labelled organic. i planted those this year and the
difference was noticeable in terms of season, the
ones i planted turned brown several weeks later than
the soybean fields around us.

Was that too late in the season for you or was the alteness a good
thing? Are you going to save some of your current harvest for
replanting next year?

i space them 4-6 inches apart and rows a foot apart.
1-2 inches deep, they have pretty big leaves and smother
anything growing within a few feet of them so don't plan
on planting anything right next to them, or you can do
what i did with some of them to thin them out (so the
strawberries got some sunshine) i just trimmed off some
of the leaves. i used the trimmings for green manure
and worm farm food. chickens would probably eat them.

:-)) Perhaps our cows would like some rather than giving them to my
chooks. My chooks get lots of (self serve) greens but will come
running at the thought of some animal protein on offer -

I lifted up some rubbish while the chooks were watching and I uncovered a
mouse nest. The mice all ran for it, mother disappeared into the grass,
the pink babes disappeared into the chooks in about 10 seconds, I was
nearly knocked down in the rush.


the cows
come for green tidbits if they are in the paddock close to the veg
garden :-))


The horses will come and coach us over the fence when we are in the garden
to make sure we do it right and to ensure we give them some.


if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

harvesting by hand is a bit of work, but i like
being outside picking. stripping the stalks is not
too bad if you wait until the leaves have dried
and fallen off and the pods are mostly dry (i.e. not
green). i can pick three to four paper bags of pods
in several hours. long sleeved shirt required. it's
picky and dusty.

the shelling is also dusty, but there are methods
for doing that where you can avoid the dust too. i
put the dry pods in a pillow case and stomp on them for
a while. sort them from the chaff by dumping them from
box to box in a good breeze or if it is too windy and
rainy i use an inclined plane made out of cardboard and
they roll down it as i squish and crumple the pods to
get the beans out. i wear thin rubber gloves because
the pods will stick to cotton gloves.

i'm sure that beating the pillow case with a
baseball bat would probably work too.

the usual 90/10 rule applies, to get the first
90% of the beans takes 10% of the time and effort.
if i had chickens or pigs i'd not even bother with
the last 10% and let them pick through to get
those, but as i have both time and patience i end
up going for almost every bean i can find in the
pods. then later on, i go through and pick out
the beans i don't want to use for soymilk and put
those in the worm food bucket. the chaff gets
recycled back to the gardens one way or another
too. it makes good worm bedding eventually.

Thanks 'bird. A very good description. I've forwarded all responses
to my email addy for future reference. I might even try some this
year if I can squeeze some in somewhere - space is getting a bit on
the tight side now.

OK aside from "milk" and stock feed what would you do with them on a small
scale? Is it sensible (possible) to make any of the multitude of soy
products domestically that are made commercially?

David


We use them just as we would use lima beans. We have a hard time growing
limas due to the clay soil, but the soy beans do well here and are a good
substitute. The green edamame are very like "boiled peanuts".

Billy wrote:
....
Well, I started this as amusement, but I see that you want to be a
"winner". So be it. As I understand it, tofu is used as a condiment in
Japan, not the central element of the meal. That said, pray tell me what
normal consumption is.

i'm not caring about "winning" i just hate
to see casual unfounded remarks that look
like scare mongering put in their place.

normal consumption, a glass of soymilk a day,
a few ounces of tofu, some soy sauce, a few
teaspoons of fermented soy beans in a black bean
sauce, a soy burger, all probably well within
normal.

i'd say that more than 2lbs of soy products a
day would be getting into the realm of abnormal.
more than a lb a day borderline and less than
that quite ok for most people.

the only qualification i see at this time in
the literature is for pregnant or soon to be
pregnant women.

Japan is not the only place that eats soy
products. Thai, Indonesian, Indian, Chinese,
etc. all use soy in various ways.


songbird

FarmI wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
....
OK aside from "milk" and stock feed what would you do with them on a small
scale? Is it sensible (possible) to make any of the multitude of soy
products domestically that are made commercially?

aside from tofu, you can roast them for a snack
item, you can ferment them and make black bean
sauce, soy sauce or add them to other various fish
sauces or hot sauces, they can be cooked just like
any other dried bean and used in chili or soups or
stews. and as Steve mentioned the green soft beans
(before they dry and get hard) are edible, but many
people grow specific varieties of those as they
have a less green/grassy flavor.


Tofu. It's easy to make and the process is not dissimilar to making soft
white cheese.

yes, and if you've just made soy milk then the
steps for making tofu follow on (as then it's already
heated up). get it down to the right temperature,
add coagulant, strain out curds and press.


Years ago, I read on an ng how a poster made hers. the instructions made it
sound easy and I ahd all the ingredients so set to with a will. As/after I
made it, I realised that she was full of shit and had never made it at all
and had merely posted instructions she'd found online.

ooh!


While I was making
it, I found that the containers she mentioned werent' big enough to hold
the amount of liquid she said they would so did a trip to the shop to buy
new plastic buckets (plural). Then I found the coagulant she mentioned (and
don't ask me now what it was) didn't work as she said it should so after
thinking about it I decided that lemon juice should work but again needed to
go to the shop for more lemons. It was rather fraught at the time, but it
worked out fine in the end.

the site i mentioned in the the other post on
making soy milk continued on making tofu and i
tried it with lemon juice, but decided the taste
and texture weren't for me. i like other tofu
at times, but normally don't eat it. then i
tried tempeh and didn't much like that either.
so stopping at soymilk was good enough for me
as i do like that.


songbird

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
Well, I started this as amusement, but I see that you want to be a
"winner". So be it. As I understand it, tofu is used as a condiment in
Japan, not the central element of the meal. That said, pray tell me what
normal consumption is.

i'm not caring about "winning" i just hate
to see casual unfounded remarks that look
like scare mongering put in their place.
Observing that exposure to phytoestrogens can facilitate the growth of
breasts is fear mongering? Breasts are to be feared?

normal consumption, a glass of soymilk a day,
a few ounces of tofu, some soy sauce, a few
teaspoons of fermented soy beans in a black bean
sauce, a soy burger, all probably well within
normal.

i'd say that more than 2lbs of soy products a
day would be getting into the realm of abnormal.
more than a lb a day borderline and less than
that quite ok for most people.
You'd say!? What is the support for what you say?
Facts aren't something that you pull out of your backside.

once again billy, the first paragraph shoots
you down.
Once again!? As charming as you are, bird, you are far too incompetent
to be patronizing, as the following illustrates.
read it. i'll underline the relevant
part for you.

normal consumption
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of foods that contain these phytoestrogens should not provide sufficient
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
amounts to elicit a physiological response in humans.[102]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^

What does that sentence say, bird? First, normal consumption isn't
quantified. Then it says "should not", not "will not". So what the
sentence says is that most people probably won't have a physiological
response to phytoestrogens, because they don't consume soybeans beyond
some undefined "healthy limit". It doesn't say eat as much
phytoestrogens as you like, because there is no adverse physiological
threat from them. At some point they become a problem, but that point is
unknown.

the only qualification i see at this time in
the literature is for pregnant or soon to be
pregnant women.

Japan is not the only place that eats soy
products. Thai, Indonesian, Indian, Chinese,
etc. all use soy in various ways.

Golllly, do tell. Who'd have thunk?

(This is a bit dated ['02], but still makes the point.)
Some studies have reported no link and others have reported a decrease
in the risk of breast cancer among women eating soy compared to women
who did not eat soy; no studies have reliably demonstrated an increase
in the risk of breast cancer among women eating soy. In addition to the
conflicting results, there are four problems with these studies. First,
the number of studies is small, only ten studies have examined soy in
the diet and breast cancer risk. Second, most of the studies examined
small numbers of women, only four of the studies included more than 200
patients. Third, all but two of the studies were limited to women from
Asia. The effect of soy in Asian women may not best reflect much of the
population of Western countries like the US. Women in Asia differ in
important ways. Many of them have eaten soy products all their lives and
their usual diets contain large amounts of soy products. Also, Asian
women have low rates of breast cancer compared to Western women, which
may be related to other factors besides soy in their diet. Fourth, most
of these studies are limited by their focus on the general diet of women
rather than soy products in detail. More carefully controlled studies
are needed that examine the effect of soy products on breast cancer risk
in women from cultures outside of Asia and more indepth studies are
needed of Asian women.

Then soy isn't the only phytoestrogen game in town:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavende...traindications
Lavender oil has recently been implicated in gynecomastia, the abnormal
development of breasts in young boys.

Then there is the collateral damage from soybeans.
http://www.ajcn.org/content/93/5/950.abstract

€ © 2011 American Society for Nutrition
Changes in consumption of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids in the United
States during the 20th century

Background: The consumption of omega-3 (n*3) and omega-6 (n*6) essential
fatty acids in Western diets is thought to have changed markedly during
the 20th century.

Results: The estimated per capita consumption of soybean oil increased
1000-fold from 1909 to 1999. The availability of linoleic acid
(LA)[omega-6] increased from 2.79% to 7.21% of energy (P 0.000001),
whereas the availability of ?-linolenic acid (ALA) [omega-3] increased
from 0.39% to 0.72% of energy . . .

The ratio of LA to ALA increased from 6.4 in 1909 to 10.0 in 1999.

Predicted net effects of these dietary changes included declines in
tissue n--3 highly unsaturated fatty acid status . . . and declines in
the estimated omega-3 index.

You do know about the importance of omega-6/omega-3, don't you, bird?


songbird

I'd continue your instruction, but I have a football game to watch.
--

Billy

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Well, I started this as amusement, but I see that you want to be a
"winner". So be it. As I understand it, tofu is used as a condiment in
Japan, not the central element of the meal. That said, pray tell me what
normal consumption is.

i'm not caring about "winning" i just hate
to see casual unfounded remarks that look
like scare mongering put in their place.

You hate for unfounded remarks that look
like scare mongering to be put in their place, bird?

Q.E.D.
--
- Billy

E pluribus unum
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

Bill Rose wrote:
....
Observing that exposure to phytoestrogens can facilitate the growth of
breasts is fear mongering? Breasts are to be feared?

man boobs billy. have you lost your gourd again?

i'll ignore the rest of this since fatty acid
health isn't the topic i started with, but yes i
am aware of the health benefits of various fats.


songbird

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
songbird wrote:


normal consumption
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of foods that contain these phytoestrogens should not provide sufficient
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
amounts to elicit a physiological response in humans.[102]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^

What does that sentence say, bird? First, normal consumption isn't
quantified.

And it's also been recorded in at least one case that I recall that a person
who drinks too much water can die from water.

If you don't want to eat soy products then there is no compulsion for you to
do so despite what Bird chooses to do.

Then it says "should not", not "will not". So what the
sentence says is that most people probably won't have a physiological
response to phytoestrogens, because they don't consume soybeans beyond
some undefined "healthy limit". It doesn't say eat as much
phytoestrogens as you like, because there is no adverse physiological
threat from them. At some point they become a problem, but that point is
unknown.

And the same with drinking water.

Life is just one big risk. Perhaps we should all make a pact to slit our
wrists right now before something else comes along that might give us a rash
or kill us slowly.

"songbird" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:

if i can find an earlier variety from an
organic source then i'll switch some to
test them for taste. and then if the taste
is ok, i'll switch the whole crop.

There's a Seed Savers group in the US so it might be worth trying them to
see if they ahve any other varieties.


if my estimate of the harvest this year is correct
one bean gives between a 50 to 75 return.

That's a pretty good result.

after getting so little return at the bank
it's nice to have something that does well.

LOL. I dont' know what the interest rate is on my money. So long as it's
not negative and i'm losing money, I can live with a low return as I dont'
touch capital anyway.


questions always ok, this e-mail address is
good.

Thank you for the kind offer.

FarmI wrote:
....
Life is just one big risk. Perhaps we should all make a pact to slit our
wrists right now before something else comes along that might give us a rash
or kill us slowly.

uhg! sorry, i'm not that kind of
follower or believer. i know you mean
it as sarcasm, etc., but wow...

i think instead i'll just go back to
SAVING THE FOREST LEAF LITTER
and let it rest at that.

hope the game was good Billy.

peace,


songbird