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songbird[_2_] 13-04-2012 11:52 PM

swiss chard
 
did the Swiss invent it or did they just get
lucky and grab the name first?

we'll see how it goes here, i planted three
areas today with the Burpee Neon Mix. two outside
the fenced garden and a backup patch inside the
fenced garden.

the package says "average soil" which around
here the average would be hard as a rock right
now and mostly clay. i don't think they mean
that! ;) however, two patches are in the
lighter soil space i have and the backup patch
is also amended lighter soil too. so i don't
think i've erred, until the bunnies find them
delicious.

Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!" this mix
is four colors, so i will be curious as to how
they do here. i've always loved it, always
wanted to grow some, but until now we've not
had the space in the fenced garden for a plant
like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.

i think they will be a good refuge type plant
for the good bugs.

should be in the full sun or close to it.
shaded a little right now by flowers and some
trefoil, but i can trim that back if it looks
to be taking over.

let grow untouched first year and harvest
next year? harvest a little this year after
they get a few big leaves? are these biannual
like beets? says the seeds want even moisture
for sprouting, that might be a challenge in
sandier soil. how hardy are they when it gets hot
and dry? do they get deep tap roots? flower
second season? spread by root division? yes,
i know i can look this up on-line, but this is
a conversation space. :) so let's talk chard.
teach me, i'm a grasshopper at your knee.

beautiful weather today. rain predicted for
tonight. we'll see.


songbird

David Hare-Scott[_2_] 14-04-2012 01:51 AM

swiss chard
 
songbird wrote:
did the Swiss invent it or did they just get
lucky and grab the name first?


WikiP says its Mediterranean and "Swiss" is to distinguish from French.
Does anybody have "French chard"?

we'll see how it goes here, i planted three
areas today with the Burpee Neon Mix. two outside
the fenced garden and a backup patch inside the
fenced garden.

the package says "average soil" which around
here the average would be hard as a rock right
now and mostly clay. i don't think they mean
that! ;) however, two patches are in the
lighter soil space i have and the backup patch
is also amended lighter soil too. so i don't
think i've erred, until the bunnies find them
delicious.


It's pretty hardy and flexible, not fussy really. It will self-seed and
grow in all sorts of places.

Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!" this mix
is four colors, so i will be curious as to how
they do here. i've always loved it, always
wanted to grow some, but until now we've not
had the space in the fenced garden for a plant
like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.


You will be faced with one of life's turning points. To eat the stalks or
not. If you choose yes then cook the stalks separately from the leaves
otherwise the one will be underdone and the other overdone. The key is to
pick them while the leaves are tender and not too strong in flavour. The
leaves can be allowed to grow to full size (or nearly) but regular cutting
keeps them producing.


i think they will be a good refuge type plant
for the good bugs.


And snails and slugs

should be in the full sun or close to it.
shaded a little right now by flowers and some
trefoil, but i can trim that back if it looks
to be taking over.


If they get at least some sun they will grow but they are best in full sun.

let grow untouched first year and harvest
next year?


No. Harvest according to the vigour of the plant. Cut from the outside and
always leave a few healthy leaves in the centre to carry on. Once they are
going well you may be able to cut quite frequently and still have them
prosper.

harvest a little this year after
they get a few big leaves?


Harvest as soon as they have enough leaves.

are these biannual
like beets?


Yes. They ARE beets!

says the seeds want even moisture
for sprouting, that might be a challenge in
sandier soil.


You can start them in trays, they transplant quite well.

how hardy are they when it gets hot
and dry?


They will do better than many leafy veges like lettuce but try to keep them
watered or they will wilt in the afternoon.

do they get deep tap roots?

Yes

flower
second season?


Yes. When the flower stalk comes up you can cut all the baby leaves along
its sides which will be very tender and mild

spread by root division?

No only seed.

David


Sean Straw 14-04-2012 02:02 AM

swiss chard
 
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:52:42 -0400, songbird
wrote:

the package says "average soil" which around
here the average would be hard as a rock right
now and mostly clay.


No, that's "poor" soil.

fertile: loamy
poor: sand/adobe
average: everything in between those two

Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!"


When I grew chard, what I found was that it had an inverse
relationship to eating healthy. Prolly because everyone I asked about
how best to prepare it responded with "first, fry up some bacon..."

like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.


Every year, I like to try growing a few things I didn't grow
previously. Not merely a different variety of something, but an
entirely new thing. This year, it's Okra and Rhubarb. Also looking
to pickle cucumbers, so growing types good for that. Last year was
Cardoon and Eggplant.

Dang good thing I've got the space to grow lots of things.

i think they will be a good refuge type plant
for the good bugs.


You're welcome to think that. As a point of reference though, leaf
miners - a maggot-like larval stage of certain species of flies and
other insects, ends up eating the tissue from between the thin outer
skins (epidermus) of the leaf to the point that the leaf would be
transparent, excepting for the frass the critters expell, will love
'em. Stay on top of that, cutting off and destroying leaves showing
that type of damage. They'll also attack beets and spinach too.

should be in the full sun or close to it.
shaded a little right now by flowers and some
trefoil, but i can trim that back if it looks
to be taking over.


Mine were always in the full sun.

let grow untouched first year and harvest
next year?


It's a biennial - you want to harvest it while it has good leaves, but
before it goes to seed, at which time things will turn bitter. On
plants which yeild leaves which can be harvested without killing the
plant, I let them establish sufficiently, then I harvest a few leaves
here and there. When you have multiple such plants, it's usually easy
enough to harvest without setting them back.

Are these biannual like beets?


They're so like beets that they share the same pests and can cross
pollinate (if you save seed, you should pay close attention to that,
because the next generation of beets (those from the saved seed) may
very well not actually produce a beetroot, though they may appear to
have beet greens).

says the seeds want even moisture for sprouting, that might be a challenge in
sandier soil.


Most plants like even moisture. If it's an issue for you, start them
in germination trays, then transplant out when they're big enough.

how hardy are they when it gets hot and dry?


They'll need water. I use drip irrigation for all my raised beds (on
an irrigation timer), as well as some moveable runs in the in-ground
garden (moveable because the larger space is subject to crop rotation
as well as tilling).

do they get deep tap roots?


My plants grew to about 8' tall (from the level of the soil), and were
in a raised bet with less than 16" of soil depth, and a fabric
weed/root barrier on the bottom. They did wonderfully well there, but
the soil was well amended with organics. They were a bear to pull up
when I went to remove them, but they didn't have a carrot-like taproot
scaled to accomodate their topside growth either.

My native soil is sandy loam. It is plenty fertile (doesn't hurt
being in an area where there was chicken farming for a long time), but
to improve the tilth, I amend that with vast quantities of organic
compost. For my 4K+ square foot garden, I have 40 cubic yards of duck
manure and rice hull compost on order right now (the last go was 20
CY), waiting for the delivery driver to get over his unease about
driving across the property after the rains). Lots of compost
improves almost everything.

flower second season? spread by root division?


Propagate by seed.

i know i can look this up on-line, but this is
a conversation space.


Why not look up the basic traits online, then ask for discussion about
best practices and experiences?

teach me, i'm a grasshopper at your knee.


Gaaa! Locusts! Get the torches!


songbird[_2_] 14-04-2012 05:43 AM

swiss chard
 
David Hare-Scott wrote:
songbird wrote:


did the Swiss invent it or did they just get
lucky and grab the name first?


WikiP says its Mediterranean and "Swiss" is to distinguish from French.
Does anybody have "French chard"?


i've never heard of it.


we'll see how it goes here, i planted three
areas today with the Burpee Neon Mix. two outside
the fenced garden and a backup patch inside the
fenced garden.

the package says "average soil" which around
here the average would be hard as a rock right
now and mostly clay. i don't think they mean
that! ;) however, two patches are in the
lighter soil space i have and the backup patch
is also amended lighter soil too. so i don't
think i've erred, until the bunnies find them
delicious.


It's pretty hardy and flexible, not fussy really. It will self-seed and
grow in all sorts of places.


oh good. :)


Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!" this mix
is four colors, so i will be curious as to how
they do here. i've always loved it, always
wanted to grow some, but until now we've not
had the space in the fenced garden for a plant
like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.


You will be faced with one of life's turning points. To eat the stalks or
not. If you choose yes then cook the stalks separately from the leaves
otherwise the one will be underdone and the other overdone. The key is to
pick them while the leaves are tender and not too strong in flavour. The
leaves can be allowed to grow to full size (or nearly) but regular cutting
keeps them producing.


i like rhubarb stalks cooked or raw once
in a while. when i was eating chard before
i would eat the whole leaf usually raw as
a wrap or chop it up and throw it in a stir
fry of some sort. i like veggies on the
crunchy side even when cooked, so a little
hard stalk isn't going to bother me. i've
also had it cooked in a pastry and that was
good too. i'm not really fussy either as
long as you don't put black pepper on it...


i think they will be a good refuge type plant
for the good bugs.


And snails and slugs


that would have to cross several feet of
bare, dry dirt right now to get to where
they are at. don't see too many snails
around here. i think the birds get them.


should be in the full sun or close to it.
shaded a little right now by flowers and some
trefoil, but i can trim that back if it looks
to be taking over.


If they get at least some sun they will grow but they are best in full sun.


they'll have 6-9hrs of sun at least on
the days when the sun is out. i put them to
the north and to the west and in the center
so we'll see what they do for shading surrounding
plants and sun blocking, and also how they do
growing with some companion legumes.


let grow untouched first year and harvest
next year?


No. Harvest according to the vigour of the plant. Cut from the outside and
always leave a few healthy leaves in the centre to carry on. Once they are
going well you may be able to cut quite frequently and still have them
prosper.


ah good.


harvest a little this year after
they get a few big leaves?


Harvest as soon as they have enough leaves.


check. :)


are these biannual
like beets?


Yes. They ARE beets!


but no round root to eat?


says the seeds want even moisture
for sprouting, that might be a challenge in
sandier soil.


You can start them in trays, they transplant quite well.


too late for that. i've never had any
trouble starting beets here so i figure i
just need to remember to give them a shot
of water if we've not had any rain.
pretty much what i would do for any of
the seeded in gardens.


how hardy are they when it gets hot
and dry?


They will do better than many leafy veges like lettuce but try to keep them
watered or they will wilt in the afternoon.


that's good to know. all of the patches i
planted have an underlaying clay that will hold
water if the roots can get down that far. one
is along an edge that is low that it is usually
damp even when it gets dry for quite some time.


do they get deep tap roots?

Yes

flower
second season?


Yes. When the flower stalk comes up you can cut all the baby leaves along
its sides which will be very tender and mild


that will be fun to see. much more fun than
rhubarb stalks.


spread by root division?

No only seed.


great, thanks for your answers.

anything else i should know about them? :)

is it likely that a mix like this will
even and average out in color as it self-and-
cross pollinates? sometimes this happens
with flowers (like the cosmos if i don't
select seeds by color and petal count and
height they'll all go mostly orange).


songbird

songbird[_2_] 14-04-2012 06:27 AM

swiss chard
 
Sean Straw wrote:
songbird wrote:

the package says "average soil" which around
here the average would be hard as a rock right
now and mostly clay.


No, that's "poor" soil.


it was a lame attempt at a joke. :)


fertile: loamy
poor: sand/adobe
average: everything in between those two


i find the clay to be very fertile. i'd
never call it poor soil. just has certain
ways of being that can be worked around at
times. main trouble is when it gets too
dry at the surface. as much mulch as i
can find for free i can always use.


Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!"


When I grew chard, what I found was that it had an inverse
relationship to eating healthy. Prolly because everyone I asked about
how best to prepare it responded with "first, fry up some bacon..."


we won't have that trouble here... neither of
us does that very often at all.


like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.


Every year, I like to try growing a few things I didn't grow
previously. Not merely a different variety of something, but an
entirely new thing. This year, it's Okra and Rhubarb. Also looking
to pickle cucumbers, so growing types good for that. Last year was
Cardoon and Eggplant.


rhubarb is one of those great plants if you
really like it, comes in early enough to be
a good source of vegetable/fruitlike filling
early in the season. tastes a lot like apples
if you can ignore some of the texture and
aftermouthfeel aspects. later in the season
it goes well with a lot of other things too
or it can be put up plain. i give a lot of
it away and i only had one bunch of plants
last year, but i still gave away 60lbs of
the stalks last year. this year i have four
bunches (moved one bunch and divided it up).
so i will be able to put some up again. have
to move another patch this fall. that should
give me six to eight clumps.

remember not to harvest too close to a
hard frost (oxyalic acid moves from the
leaves down to the stalks), give it a week
or two to recover.


Dang good thing I've got the space to grow lots of things.


:) this year well be doing okra, bunching
onions and onions from seeds (to grow out for
next year if they don't get too big this year).
we'll also be putting in onion sets too. we've
done them before. red peppers we hope to be
doing this year along with the green peppers.
for peppers and tomatoes we get them from the
greenhouse. he does a good job and we always
have had good results.


i think they will be a good refuge type plant
for the good bugs.


You're welcome to think that. As a point of reference though, leaf
miners - a maggot-like larval stage of certain species of flies and
other insects, ends up eating the tissue from between the thin outer
skins (epidermus) of the leaf to the point that the leaf would be
transparent, excepting for the frass the critters expell, will love
'em. Stay on top of that, cutting off and destroying leaves showing
that type of damage. They'll also attack beets and spinach too.


i've not seen much of that sort of damage in
the past and we've grown beets for years. we
haven't grown spinach much. last year it grew
well for a short period of time but bolted even
though the package said it was not supposed to.


should be in the full sun or close to it.
shaded a little right now by flowers and some
trefoil, but i can trim that back if it looks
to be taking over.


Mine were always in the full sun.


even the most shaded patch should get
6-8hrs at least of sun when the sun is
out.


let grow untouched first year and harvest
next year?


It's a biennial - you want to harvest it while it has good leaves, but
before it goes to seed, at which time things will turn bitter. On
plants which yeild leaves which can be harvested without killing the
plant, I let them establish sufficiently, then I harvest a few leaves
here and there. When you have multiple such plants, it's usually easy
enough to harvest without setting them back.


if i get a good germination rate i should have
a few hundred plants. then i will thin as it
goes and i can see what kind of spacing they'll
need. i'm assuming the seeds are similar to
beets too in that each clump planted will sprout
several plants. i.e. that the seeds are not
individual seeds...


Are these biannual like beets?


They're so like beets that they share the same pests and can cross
pollinate (if you save seed, you should pay close attention to that,
because the next generation of beets (those from the saved seed) may
very well not actually produce a beetroot, though they may appear to
have beet greens).


yes, i'll have to watch this, as we do grow beets,
but rarely do the red round root kinds flower, we
put them up and if we miss a few in the ground they
go to mush over the winter.


says the seeds want even moisture for sprouting, that might be a challenge in
sandier soil.


Most plants like even moisture. If it's an issue for you, start them
in germination trays, then transplant out when they're big enough.


seeds in the ground already. will keep tabs on
watering. the surrounding garden will need some
watering at times too.


how hardy are they when it gets hot and dry?


They'll need water. I use drip irrigation for all my raised beds (on
an irrigation timer), as well as some moveable runs in the in-ground
garden (moveable because the larger space is subject to crop rotation
as well as tilling).


*nods*


do they get deep tap roots?


My plants grew to about 8' tall (from the level of the soil), and were
in a raised bet with less than 16" of soil depth, and a fabric
weed/root barrier on the bottom. They did wonderfully well there, but
the soil was well amended with organics. They were a bear to pull up
when I went to remove them, but they didn't have a carrot-like taproot
scaled to accomodate their topside growth either.


probably just chop the crown off and bury
things to rot.


My native soil is sandy loam. It is plenty fertile (doesn't hurt
being in an area where there was chicken farming for a long time), but
to improve the tilth, I amend that with vast quantities of organic
compost. For my 4K+ square foot garden, I have 40 cubic yards of duck
manure and rice hull compost on order right now (the last go was 20
CY), waiting for the delivery driver to get over his unease about
driving across the property after the rains). Lots of compost
improves almost everything.


noway can we afford that. i have to
grow as much green manure as i can and i
have a worm farm chewing up veggie scraps
and chopped greens for organic matter.
whatever free stuff i can get that i know
the owner didn't spray the lawn or had
animals then i'll take leaves and shredded
branches or bark. i've had good luck this
past year in getting about 20yards of
materials brought right to me here. i'll
be giving them beans and strawberries this
year if they'll want them.


flower second season? spread by root division?


Propagate by seed.


we'll see how that goes. might be a
challenge. Ma tends to like getting
rid of plants i'd like to see flower.


i know i can look this up on-line, but this is
a conversation space.


Why not look up the basic traits online, then ask for discussion about
best practices and experiences?


it's nice to have a conversation once in
a while when i know i know very little
about the topic. i mean while i've grown
houseplants and gardens for many years and
know quite a bit in general and have studied
soil sciences, biology, botany, ecology,
chemistry, etc. it still doesn't mean i
know everything. :) it's good to be
humble once in a while.


teach me, i'm a grasshopper at your knee.


Gaaa! Locusts! Get the torches!


*grins*


songbird

David Hare-Scott[_2_] 14-04-2012 08:10 AM

swiss chard
 
songbird wrote:


are these biannual
like beets?


Yes. They ARE beets!


but no round root to eat?


No. Somewhere in our history the breeding of beta vulgaris diverged into
two cultivars. One with a big root and little leaves (beets) and the other
with big leaves and little root (chard).

David



David Hare-Scott[_2_] 14-04-2012 08:11 AM

swiss chard
 
Billy wrote:

spread by root division?

No only seed.

B.S., the flowering stalks will flop over, and put out adventitious
roots which will start new plants. They've done that for me for at
least 20 years.


Never seen or heard of it. I will have to try it now.

D

Farm1[_3_] 14-04-2012 10:03 AM

swiss chard
 
"songbird" wrote in message

the package says "average soil"


I find that being a green (I plant the green ones rather than the rainbow
ones) silver beet ('chard' to you) goes best in rich soil, but then I am a
huge fan of silver beet (chard) and use it copiously.


Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!" this mix
is four colors, so i will be curious as to how
they do here. i've always loved it, always
wanted to grow some, but until now we've not
had the space in the fenced garden for a plant
like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.


You mean you haven't planted it before? How did you survive without it?

i think they will be a good refuge type plant
for the good bugs.


Who cares about the bugs when it's one of those great plants for humans -
bugs aren't particulalrly welcome round it if they are going to compete with
me for the leaves.

let grow untouched first year and harvest
next year?


Nope. As soon as the leaves are big enough and there are enough of them,
then pick some. It's a cut and come again plant but pick the leaves from
the outside. Really tiny leaves are superb in salads. Huge leaves are
loved by the chooks or any sort of livestock round here.

As David mentioned, there is that conundrum about eating the stems and/or
the leaves. The stems are nice with white sauce to which cheese has been
added. Steamed leaves are great in Greek Cheese triangles made with philo
pastry and of course there is always Spanakopita (sp??).

And as for the people who say that they must first fry bacon, I'm wondering
how on earth they are eating it. The only time I add bacon is if I am using
the tiny leaves in a salad and then those leaves are only a minor part of
the salad and I only use a tiny amount of really crispy bacon bits to give a
bit more crunch to the salad.

You will find some recipe ideas for it here, but being an aussie site you'll
need to use using the term 'silver beet' - I got 34 recipe hits but they
don't have either the Greek cheese triangles or the salad I use it in. It
goes great with cheesey additions:
http://www.taste.com.au/





The Cook 14-04-2012 02:47 PM

swiss chard
 
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:52:42 -0400, songbird
wrote:

did the Swiss invent it or did they just get
lucky and grab the name first?

we'll see how it goes here, i planted three
areas today with the Burpee Neon Mix. two outside
the fenced garden and a backup patch inside the
fenced garden.

the package says "average soil" which around
here the average would be hard as a rock right
now and mostly clay. i don't think they mean
that! ;) however, two patches are in the
lighter soil space i have and the backup patch
is also amended lighter soil too. so i don't
think i've erred, until the bunnies find them
delicious.

Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!" this mix
is four colors, so i will be curious as to how
they do here. i've always loved it, always
wanted to grow some, but until now we've not
had the space in the fenced garden for a plant
like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.

i think they will be a good refuge type plant
for the good bugs.

should be in the full sun or close to it.
shaded a little right now by flowers and some
trefoil, but i can trim that back if it looks
to be taking over.

let grow untouched first year and harvest
next year? harvest a little this year after
they get a few big leaves? are these biannual
like beets? says the seeds want even moisture
for sprouting, that might be a challenge in
sandier soil. how hardy are they when it gets hot
and dry? do they get deep tap roots? flower
second season? spread by root division? yes,
i know i can look this up on-line, but this is
a conversation space. :) so let's talk chard.
teach me, i'm a grasshopper at your knee.

beautiful weather today. rain predicted for
tonight. we'll see.


songbird



I have never considered beets to be anything but annual. If you only
use the leaves, maybe so, but I grow them for the root. Both chard
and beet seeds produce multiple plants and you need to remove all but
one. I start mine in the greenhouse and as soon as they have sprouted
I separate all the seedlings and put each one into a cell. This year
I started 66 beet seeds, got 97% germination and set out 148 plants.
Each seed had from 1 to 4 plants. I will start harvesting the plants
in about a month or less.

I started 6 chard seeds, 5 germinated and I ended up with 15 plants.

I am not fond of beet or chard greens but DH likes the chard. I love
beet roots, especially pickled.
--
USA
North Carolina Foothills
USDA Zone 7a
To find your extension office
http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/index.html

songbird[_2_] 14-04-2012 05:01 PM

swiss chard
 
Derald wrote:
songbird wrote:

Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!" this mix
is four colors, so i will be curious as to how
they do here. i've always loved it, always
wanted to grow some, but until now we've not
had the space in the fenced garden for a plant
like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.


Ha! Reminds me of my experience with Swiss chard. Based on what I
now know to be faulty memories of chard, I planted a red-stemmed variety
("ruby") in January just to see.... Damned things taste like beet tops;
ugh. After one meal, we literally sheared the tops, cooked and froze
them and gave them to a neighbor who eats almost anything. Composted the
roots.


i wouldn't bother if you don't like beets.
the whole idea is to get a nice beet green
that has huge leaves. make a green burrito
using one leaf. yumyum. :)


Unconvinced of their total unpalatability, I have my eye on a green
variety of chard that is purported to do well in FL:
http://sustainableseedco.com/Lucullus-Chard-Seeds.html. Gonna try'em
in the fall; maybe they're milder in flavor. If not, then I'll have to
move the chard to the "don't bother" list.


good luck. when it comes to matters of taste
things are quite subjective. in one of the
other groups (preserving) there is someone who
hates beets and calls them dirt chunks. to me
that is part of their appeal. they smell and
taste a lot like dirt, but sweeter and redder
and a lot less wear on the teef.


At any rate, down here, chard seems to be relatively pest free,
compared to spinach and other tender greens. The major pest was some
kind of tiny green "worm" larva that was easily controlled by Bt.
However, my garden is not a fair example because the same nematodes I
use for root knot control also significantly reduce populations of
certain flies, including leaf miners.


i'm not seeing leaf miners here much at
all.


i think they will be a good refuge type plant for the good bugs.

What does that mean?


that means a plant that is left in place when
the rest of the garden is in between plantings.
like leaving one alfalfa plant growing in the
middle of a 7x7ft garden so that the ladybugs
have a place to be until the seeds for the next
planting sprout.

as we turn more and more of the perennial
gardens into veggie gardens and with all the
crushed limestone we have in the pathways
there's not a lot of plants in some areas. if
i want to keep good bugs around i better have
some green space always available. preferably
some flowers and a water source too as that
helps keep the birds and bees around.


songbird

songbird[_2_] 14-04-2012 05:25 PM

swiss chard
 
Farm1 wrote:
songbird wrote:

the package says "average soil"


I find that being a green (I plant the green ones rather than the rainbow
ones) silver beet ('chard' to you) goes best in rich soil, but then I am a
huge fan of silver beet (chard) and use it copiously.


:)


Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!" this mix
is four colors, so i will be curious as to how
they do here. i've always loved it, always
wanted to grow some, but until now we've not
had the space in the fenced garden for a plant
like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.


You mean you haven't planted it before? How did you survive without it?


i started buying it at the store years ago
when i lived away. i liked it a lot. once i
moved back i got out of the habit. it wasn't
in the store here often.

and not enough space in the gardens before
now. this year i've got the tulip beds and
can use them later in the season for beans
and peas that gives me several hundred more
square feet of space in the fenced garden.
also i finished reshaping another 2000ish sq
ft garden (used to be a perennial garden only)
and that will be for beans and peas too. around
the north edge i'll put the okra and the chard
is already in.


i think they will be a good refuge type plant
for the good bugs.


Who cares about the bugs when it's one of those great plants for humans -
bugs aren't particulalrly welcome round it if they are going to compete with
me for the leaves.


i'm talking about the good bugs like lady
beetles, lacewings or bees. food, habitat
and nectar.


let grow untouched first year and harvest
next year?


Nope. As soon as the leaves are big enough and there are enough of them,
then pick some. It's a cut and come again plant but pick the leaves from
the outside. Really tiny leaves are superb in salads. Huge leaves are
loved by the chooks or any sort of livestock round here.


:)


As David mentioned, there is that conundrum about eating the stems and/or
the leaves. The stems are nice with white sauce to which cheese has been
added. Steamed leaves are great in Greek Cheese triangles made with philo
pastry and of course there is always Spanakopita (sp??).


i'm good with it all. a little crunch is
fine too. i've eaten entire leaves raw and
just folded the stem up into whatever i was
using to fill it (using the leaf as a wrap).


And as for the people who say that they must first fry bacon, I'm wondering
how on earth they are eating it. The only time I add bacon is if I am using
the tiny leaves in a salad and then those leaves are only a minor part of
the salad and I only use a tiny amount of really crispy bacon bits to give a
bit more crunch to the salad.

You will find some recipe ideas for it here, but being an aussie site you'll
need to use using the term 'silver beet' - I got 34 recipe hits but they
don't have either the Greek cheese triangles or the salad I use it in. It
goes great with cheesey additions:
http://www.taste.com.au/


thanks. i'll check it out.


songbird

Gary Woods[_2_] 14-04-2012 05:37 PM

swiss chard
 
songbird wrote:

let grow untouched first year and harvest
next year? harvest a little this year after
they get a few big leaves? are these biannual
like beets?


They _are_ beets, albeit ones that have been bred for foliage. Pull up a
chard plant and you'll see a vestigial beet on the bottom. And yes, the
second year they will put up huge alien flower stalks festooned with
Buckyball seeds.

--
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

songbird[_2_] 14-04-2012 05:43 PM

swiss chard
 
The Cook wrote:
....
I have never considered beets to be anything but annual.


*nods* but if you want to get flower and seeds if you
can store them and plant them again you get that the
second season. no reason why that could also not be a
source for beet greens earlier in the season as the plants
would have a lot of energy stored in that root. but we
are so short on storage space of any kind here that i've
not been able to give it a try. perhaps could buy a
bundle of fresh beets at the store and put those in. :)
sounds like a plan... hmm. uhoh. hahaha... another
project.


If you only
use the leaves, maybe so, but I grow them for the root. Both chard
and beet seeds produce multiple plants and you need to remove all but
one. I start mine in the greenhouse and as soon as they have sprouted
I separate all the seedlings and put each one into a cell. This year
I started 66 beet seeds, got 97% germination and set out 148 plants.
Each seed had from 1 to 4 plants. I will start harvesting the plants
in about a month or less.

I started 6 chard seeds, 5 germinated and I ended up with 15 plants.

I am not fond of beet or chard greens but DH likes the chard. I love
beet roots, especially pickled.


we eat some fresh, but like you we like them more
pickled, i usually dice some onion and steam that on
top when steaming the beets before adding the vinegar,
sugar and water.

we use the pickled beets and pickled three (or more)
bean salad (also with diced onion) as a salad dressing
a lot of the time in the middle of winter. we always
appreciate it.

if the chard is in season when i'm doing any putting
up i'll probably chop and steam it too and toss it in
the mix. can't be any worse than canned spinach or any
other canned green. the thing with doing it ourselves
is that we avoid the metals and the salts of canned
commercial foods and pepper in some things. we used
to buy the three bean salad, but they added white pepper
to it and we both react to pepper.


songbird

Steve Peek 14-04-2012 08:43 PM

swiss chard
 
If you like pickled beets, try pickling the chard stems. Just cut them the
length of you jars, pack and pickle them. The rainbow chard is very pretty
canned this way.
Steve
"songbird" wrote in message
...
Derald wrote:
songbird wrote:

Ma asked me what it was like and i said,
"Yummy, like beets, but greener!" this mix
is four colors, so i will be curious as to how
they do here. i've always loved it, always
wanted to grow some, but until now we've not
had the space in the fenced garden for a plant
like this, but now it's in. i'm looking
forwards to learning yet another thing this
year.


Ha! Reminds me of my experience with Swiss chard. Based on what I
now know to be faulty memories of chard, I planted a red-stemmed variety
("ruby") in January just to see.... Damned things taste like beet tops;
ugh. After one meal, we literally sheared the tops, cooked and froze
them and gave them to a neighbor who eats almost anything. Composted the
roots.


i wouldn't bother if you don't like beets.
the whole idea is to get a nice beet green
that has huge leaves. make a green burrito
using one leaf. yumyum. :)


Unconvinced of their total unpalatability, I have my eye on a green
variety of chard that is purported to do well in FL:
http://sustainableseedco.com/Lucullus-Chard-Seeds.html. Gonna try'em
in the fall; maybe they're milder in flavor. If not, then I'll have to
move the chard to the "don't bother" list.


good luck. when it comes to matters of taste
things are quite subjective. in one of the
other groups (preserving) there is someone who
hates beets and calls them dirt chunks. to me
that is part of their appeal. they smell and
taste a lot like dirt, but sweeter and redder
and a lot less wear on the teef.


At any rate, down here, chard seems to be relatively pest free,
compared to spinach and other tender greens. The major pest was some
kind of tiny green "worm" larva that was easily controlled by Bt.
However, my garden is not a fair example because the same nematodes I
use for root knot control also significantly reduce populations of
certain flies, including leaf miners.


i'm not seeing leaf miners here much at
all.


i think they will be a good refuge type plant for the good bugs.

What does that mean?


that means a plant that is left in place when
the rest of the garden is in between plantings.
like leaving one alfalfa plant growing in the
middle of a 7x7ft garden so that the ladybugs
have a place to be until the seeds for the next
planting sprout.

as we turn more and more of the perennial
gardens into veggie gardens and with all the
crushed limestone we have in the pathways
there's not a lot of plants in some areas. if
i want to keep good bugs around i better have
some green space always available. preferably
some flowers and a water source too as that
helps keep the birds and bees around.


songbird




Farm1[_3_] 15-04-2012 07:00 AM

swiss chard
 
"songbird" wrote in message
when it comes to matters of taste
things are quite subjective. in one of the
other groups (preserving) there is someone who
hates beets and calls them dirt chunks.


Hmmpf! Obviously the person who thinks that must be a seriously bad cook if
that is how they taste to them. I'd stop reading any hints or tips from
them.


that means a plant that is left in place when
the rest of the garden is in between plantings.
like leaving one alfalfa plant growing in the
middle of a 7x7ft garden so that the ladybugs
have a place to be until the seeds for the next
planting sprout.


IIRC, the ubellifera family are the best bug hosts. I'd not heard of
lucerne (alfalfa) being a bug haven.




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