http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...cine-movement/

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:24:27 AM UTC-6, Frank wrote:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...cine-movement/

Yep, good post. I'm not a Monsanto fan but some of the critics are way, way off the mark.

In article ,
Roy wrote:

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:24:27 AM UTC-6, Frank wrote:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...os-it-reminds-
me-of-the-antivaccine-movement/

Yep, good post. I'm not a Monsanto fan but some of the critics are way, way
off the mark.

Typical reading material for Frank's pro-profit / anti-environmental,
"don't bother me with the facts" proclivities.

With gratuitous posturing, sarcasm, and ad hominem attacks, the blog
criticizes a study, by Séralini et al, but doesn't refuted it.

"The health effects of a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize
(from 11% in the diet), cultivated with or without Roundup, and Roundup
alone (from 0.1 ppb in water), were studied 2 years in rats. In females,
all treated groups died 2*3 times more than controls, and more rapidly.
This difference was visible in 3 male groups fed GMOs. All results were
hormone and sex dependent, and the pathological profiles were
comparable. Females developed large mammary tumors almost always more
often than and before controls, the pituitary was the second most
disabled organ; the sex hormonal balance was modified by GMO and Roundup
treatments. In treated males, liver congestions and necrosis were
2.5*5.5 times higher. This pathology was confirmed by optic and
transmission electron microscopy. Marked and severe kidney nephropathies
were also generally 1.3*2.3 greater. Males presented 4 times more large
palpable tumors than controls which occurred up to 600 days earlier.
Biochemistry data confirmed very significant kidney chronic
deficiencies; for all treatments and both sexes, 76% of the altered
parameters were kidney related.

These results can be explained

by the non linear endocrine-disrupting effects of Roundup,

but also

by the overexpression of the transgene in the GMO and its metabolic
consequences. "

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691512005637
------

Mon$anto products converging to produce an apparent, toxic synergy in
our food supply.

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On 9/26/2012 2:42 PM, Billy wrote:
In article ,
Roy wrote:

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:24:27 AM UTC-6, Frank wrote:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...os-it-reminds-
me-of-the-antivaccine-movement/

Yep, good post. I'm not a Monsanto fan but some of the critics are way, way
off the mark.

Typical reading material for Frank's pro-profit / anti-environmental,
"don't bother me with the facts" proclivities.



Mon$anto products converging to produce an apparent, toxic synergy in
our food supply.


I know as a chemist, you are scared to death of chemicals. I figure out
in the land of the fruits and the nuts you must have worked for the
government.

But, that aside, I had posted the paper in sci.chem for comment where
you probably saw it and ignored it but this source came from the
responses I got there.

Did you actually read it? It points out fallacies most glaring was
small size of a control group with rats bred to die of cancer.
I'm not a toxicologist or statistician and neither are you.

In article ,
Rick wrote:

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:42:17 -0700, Billy
wrote:

These results can be explained

by the non linear endocrine-disrupting effects of Roundup,

but also

by the overexpression of the transgene in the GMO and its metabolic
consequences. "

Again Faith based arguments about faith based science. Billy if you
knew what these sentences say, you would know how dumb the arguments
are. First, neither this paper nor any other of which I am aware have
established a "non linear endocrine-disrupting effects of Roundup".
Glyohosate does not do this.

by the overexpression of the transgene in the GMO and its metabolic
consequences. "

The transgene is a gene that makes a protein. With very rae and known
exceptions, (prions) proteins are just food. This protein does not
alter metabolism. It replaces a soybean protein that alters
matabolism which is inhibited by glyphosate. Your god isn't dead, it
was never alive. Please post about what you know, that should
eliminate about 90% of the BS.

You sure you wouldn't be more comfortable over in one of the political
newsgroups, where flame wars are accepted?

It isn't my study, but it passed peer review. I accepted the criticism
offered of the study, because I have no idea how the study was conducted.

Here is the abstract,

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691512005637

Food and Chemical Toxicology
Available online 19 September 2012
Long term toxicity of a Roundup herbicide and a Roundup-tolerant
genetically modified maize
? Gilles-Eric Seralinia, , ,
? Emilie Claira,
? Robin Mesnagea,
? Steeve Gressa,
? Nicolas Defargea,
? Manuela Malatestab,
? Didier Hennequinc,
? Joel Spiroux de Vendomoisa
? a University of Caen, Institute of Biology, CRIIGEN and Risk Pole,
MRSH-CNRS, EA 2608, Esplanade de la Paix, Caen Cedex 14032, France
? b University of Verona, Department of Neurological,
Neuropsychological, Morphological and Motor Sciences, Verona 37134, Italy
? c University of Caen, UR ABTE, EA 4651, Bd Marechal Juin, Caen
Cedex 14032, France
? http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.fct.2012.08.005, How to Cite or Link
Using DOI

Abstract
The health effects of a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize
(from 11% in the diet), cultivated with or without Roundup, and Roundup
alone (from 0.1 ppb in water), were studied 2 years in rats. In females,
all treated groups died 2-3 times more than controls, and more rapidly.
This difference was visible in 3 male groups fed GMOs. All results were
hormone and sex dependent, and the pathological profiles were
comparable. Females developed large mammary tumors almost always more
often than and before controls, the pituitary was the second most
disabled organ; the sex hormonal balance was modified by GMO and Roundup
treatments. In treated males, liver congestions and necrosis were
2.5-5.5 times higher. This pathology was confirmed by optic and
transmission electron microscopy. Marked and severe kidney nephropathies
were also generally 1.3-2.3 greater. Males presented 4 times more large
palpable tumors than controls which occurred up to 600 days earlier.
Biochemistry data confirmed very significant kidney chronic
deficiencies; for all treatments and both sexes, 76% of the altered
parameters were kidney related. These results can be explained by the
non linear endocrine-disrupting effects of Roundup, but also by the
overexpression of the transgene in the GMO and its metabolic
consequences.

Highlights
A Roundup-tolerant maize and Roundup provoked chronic hormone and sex
dependent pathologies. ? Female mortality was 2-3 times increased mostly
due to large mammary tumors and disabled pituitary. ? Males had liver
congestions, necrosis, severe kidney nephropathies and large palpable
tumors. ? This may be due to an endocrine disruption linked to Roundup
and a new metabolism due to the transgene. ? GMOs and formulated
pesticides must be evaluated by long term studies to measure toxic
effects..

Abbreviations
? GM, genetically modified;
? R, Roundup;
? MRL, maximal residual levels;
? GMO, genetically modified organism;
? OECD, Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development;
? GT, glutamyl-transferase;
? PCA, principal component analysis;
? PLS, partial least-squares;
? OPLS, orthogonal partial least-squares;
? NIPALS, Nonlinear Iterative Partial Least Squares;
? OPLS-DA, Orthogonal Partial Least Squares Discriminant Analysis;
? G, glycogen;
? L, lipid droplet;
? N, nucleus;
? R, rough endoplasmic reticulum (on microscopy pictures only);
? U, urinary;
? UEx, excreted in urine during 24 h;
? APPT, Activated Partial Thromboplastin Time;
? MCV, Mean Corpuscular Volume;
? PT, Prothrombine Time;
? RBC, Red Blood Cells;
? ALT, alanine aminotransferase;
? MCHC, Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin Concentration;
? A/G, Albumin/Globulin ratio;
? WBC, White Blood Cells;
? AST, aspartate aminotransferase
Keywords
? GMO;
? Roundup;
? NK603;
? Rat;
? Glyphosate-based herbicides;
? Endocrine disrupting effects

--------

You will note, Rick, that the abstract ends with:
These results can be explained

by the non linear endocrine-disrupting effects of Roundup,

but also

by the overexpression of the transgene in the GMO and its metabolic
consequences.
----

Nothing was mentioned about prions, or "mad cows"
-----

I know about the pathway that glyphosate is supposed to follow, but
there is empirical evidence that something else is going on to.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DMPGR.php

I'll give you more if you like, when I have time.

In the mean time, just keep saying to yourself, "correlation alone does
not prove causality". It worked for the tobacco companies, and deniers
of industrial polluters causing "acid rain".

--
Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg
or
E Pluribus Unum
Green Party Nominee Jill Stein & Running Mate, Cheri Honkala
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/7/13/green_party_nominee_jill_stein_running

Frank said:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...ce-on-gmos-it-
reminds-me-of-the-antivaccine-movement/

Thanks for the link. Science-by-press-release at its
sarcasmfinest/sarcasm.**

quoteThere might be valid reasons to be wary of the proliferation of
GMO-based foods, such as concern over the control that large multinational
corporations like Monsanto might exercise over the food supply, but the
studies purporting to find horrific dangers of GMO-based food strike me as
having the methodological rigor of a typical Andrew Wakefield or Mark Geier
study. Perhaps that’s why I wasn’t too surprised when one of my readers
pointed out that one of the authors of the study is also a homeopath and
acupuncturist; so maybe the better comparison to make to this paper would
be papers by homeopaths trying to show that homeopathy works. Either
way, this is bad, bad science, and it’s sad to see how many people who
should know better (but apparently do not) lap it up so credulously while
applying much greater skepticism to science that doesn’t damn GMOs as pure
poison./quote

Yes, it's deja-vu all over again, the comparison to anti-vaxxers rings true and
the homeopathy connection is just icing on the cake.

**the online world needs a sarcasm font

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

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