In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
I have a book called "When Technology Fails"
http://www.amazon.com/When-Technolog...Sustainability
/dp/1933392452/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1389509127&sr=1-1&keywords=
%22When+Technology+Fails%22
It is in a similar vein. Knowing what you can eat is important, as the
movie, "Into the Wild" demonstrated.

ah, found it! yes, that's one of the references i
have here, a little dated as it was published around
1999... but not too bad compared to some of my
other references. i'm finding bits of it purely
delusionary, but that's just me. still a good
jumping off point for other references at the end
of each section. some references to the Foxfire
books in there too.


songbird

Which of the Foxfires do you find helpful, or are you just a curious
sort?
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Billy wrote:
....
Which of the Foxfires do you find helpful, or are you just a curious
sort?

hahaha, curious, yeah, but also find it interesting to
read up about mountain folk as i did live in the hills
for a few years. and some things i read in their
interviews aren't mentioned in other references, so it
adds some depth or experience that i would not have
otherwise. just in case i actually ever have to do any
of these things.

i've not read through all of them yet, but each seems
to keep my interest enough to make them worth it.

right now i'm reading Zinn's _People's History..._ you
recommended to me last year. very interesting there too.
Jackson, wow...


songbird

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
Which of the Foxfires do you find helpful, or are you just a curious
sort?

hahaha, curious, yeah, but also find it interesting to
read up about mountain folk as i did live in the hills
for a few years. and some things i read in their
interviews aren't mentioned in other references, so it
adds some depth or experience that i would not have
otherwise. just in case i actually ever have to do any
of these things.

i've not read through all of them yet, but each seems
to keep my interest enough to make them worth it.

right now i'm reading Zinn's _People's History..._ you
recommended to me last year. very interesting there too.
Jackson, wow...

Yeah, the beginnings of modern politics. Talk one way, and act another.



songbird

History is a contentious subject. A national standard curriculum was
advocated in in the 80s in response to a study called a "A Nation at
Risk: The Imperative For Educational Reform". Most everything was agreed
to, except history. Some see history as Christian Europeans bringing
civilization to the unwashed masses, others, however, like Zinn, see the
contributions, good and bad, made by all people to history. The standard
curriculum was never ratified.

A good companion book to Zinn's "People's History" is "Lies My Teacher
Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" by James
W. Loewen.
Everything/dp/0743296281/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391047674&sr=1-
1&keywords=Lies+my+teacher+taught+me
From Publishers Weekly
Loewen's politically correct critique of 12 American history
textbooks‹including The American Pageant by Thomas A. Bailey and David
M. Kennedy; and Triumph of the American Nation by Paul Lewis Todd and
Merle Curti‹is sure to please liberals and infuriate conservatives. In
condemning the way history is taught, he indicts everyone involved in
the enterprise: authors, publishers, adoption committees, parents and
teachers. Loewen (Mississippi: Conflict and Change) argues that the
bland, Eurocentric treatment of history bores most elementary and high
school students, who also find it irrelevant to their lives. To make
learning more compelling, Loewen urges authors, publishers and teachers
to highlight the drama inherent in history by presenting students with
different viewpoints and stressing that history is an ongoing process,
not merely a collection of‹often misleading‹factoids. Readers interested
in history, whether liberal or conservative, professional or layperson,
will find food for thought here. Illustrated.
Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
....
right now i'm reading Zinn's _People's History..._ you
recommended to me last year. very interesting there too.
Jackson, wow...

Yeah, the beginnings of modern politics. Talk one way, and act another.

here, yes, i doubt however that in any other country
that there haven't been eras like this one with their
politicos.


History is a contentious subject. A national standard curriculum was
advocated in in the 80s in response to a study called a "A Nation at
Risk: The Imperative For Educational Reform". Most everything was agreed
to, except history. Some see history as Christian Europeans bringing
civilization to the unwashed masses, others, however, like Zinn, see the
contributions, good and bad, made by all people to history. The standard
curriculum was never ratified.

considering the issues involved i could see
why. the saddest things though to me are that
we could have had such an interesting country
otherwise, one that contained groups of people
who actually knew how to live off the land.
so much knowledge lost, languages and cultures
destroyed, etc.


A good companion book to Zinn's "People's History" is "Lies My Teacher
Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" by James
W. Loewen.

i've been reading a lot of history lately. time
to get back to basics. plants, dirt, critters,
science, etc. are up next. the title sounds
familiar and if it is much of a rehash i'll skip
it. as i told Ma, after reading through the anti-
slavery and civil war rhetoric, several presidential
biographies, and now almost done with Zinn's book,
i'm ready to ponder other topics. i'll continue on
with the Firefox books i've not read yet.


songbird

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
...
right now i'm reading Zinn's _People's History..._ you
recommended to me last year. very interesting there too.
Jackson, wow...

Yeah, the beginnings of modern politics. Talk one way, and act another.

here, yes, i doubt however that in any other country
that there haven't been eras like this one with their
politicos.


History is a contentious subject. A national standard curriculum was
advocated in in the 80s in response to a study called a "A Nation at
Risk: The Imperative For Educational Reform". Most everything was agreed
to, except history. Some see history as Christian Europeans bringing
civilization to the unwashed masses, others, however, like Zinn, see the
contributions, good and bad, made by all people to history. The standard
curriculum was never ratified.

considering the issues involved i could see
why. the saddest things though to me are that
we could have had such an interesting country
otherwise, one that contained groups of people
who actually knew how to live off the land.
so much knowledge lost, languages and cultures
destroyed, etc.


A good companion book to Zinn's "People's History" is "Lies My Teacher
Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" by James
W. Loewen.

i've been reading a lot of history lately. time
to get back to basics. plants, dirt, critters,
science, etc. are up next. the title sounds
familiar and if it is much of a rehash i'll skip
it. as i told Ma, after reading through the anti-
slavery and civil war rhetoric, several presidential
biographies, and now almost done with Zinn's book,
i'm ready to ponder other topics. i'll continue on
with the Firefox books i've not read yet.


songbird

"When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
- John Maynard Keynes

Good reading :O)
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Billy wrote:
....
Good reading :O)


yes, here is an interesting one:

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic....rprising-ways/


and another i'm waiting to download at the moment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_o...onomic_Welfare




also, i did get the movie called _The Corporation_ that you
mentioned before, if you haven't already gotten ahold of the
2 disk special edition i suggest a review as there looks to be
some interesting material on there.

peace, etc.


songbird

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
...
Good reading :O)


yes, here is an interesting one:

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic....ffects-lake-le
vels-in-surprising-ways/


and another i'm waiting to download at the moment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_o...onomic_Welfare




also, i did get the movie called _The Corporation_ that you
mentioned before, if you haven't already gotten ahold of the
2 disk special edition i suggest a review as there looks to be
some interesting material on there.

peace, etc.


songbird

I'll do that. Zeitgeist Films, c2005 ?

Thanks.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
....
also, i did get the movie called _The Corporation_ that you
mentioned before, if you haven't already gotten ahold of the
2 disk special edition i suggest a review as there looks to be
some interesting material on there.

I'll do that. Zeitgeist Films, c2005 ?

Thanks.

ah, sorry, i already returned it, i'm not sure what
the date on it was, it was a two disk collection or
special edition.

now that i've watched them, in retrospect, most of it
was rather much the same, only some of the links provided
were worth the time to look at. i guess i am not much
into advertizing ethics or some of the other issues, as
they did not really inform me any more than i'd already
picked up.


in the film itself:

however, i do have to say that the water war footage
in (Guatamala i think it was) was rather stark. showing
a sniper, in plain clothes, calmly walking up to a line
of soldiers countering protestors, crouching down and
taking someone out, wow. just wow. caught on film, no
edits, no cuts away, just one sequence of film. cold
blooded murder.

in the afterwards it is noted that Bechtel is seeking
damages of some amount from the country/government.


songbird

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
...
also, i did get the movie called _The Corporation_ that you
mentioned before, if you haven't already gotten ahold of the
2 disk special edition i suggest a review as there looks to be
some interesting material on there.

I'll do that. Zeitgeist Films, c2005 ?

Thanks.

ah, sorry, i already returned it, i'm not sure what
the date on it was, it was a two disk collection or
special edition.

now that i've watched them, in retrospect, most of it
was rather much the same, only some of the links provided
were worth the time to look at. i guess i am not much
into advertizing ethics or some of the other issues, as
they did not really inform me any more than i'd already
picked up.


in the film itself:

however, i do have to say that the water war footage
in (Guatamala i think it was) was rather stark. showing
a sniper, in plain clothes, calmly walking up to a line
of soldiers countering protestors, crouching down and
taking someone out, wow. just wow. caught on film, no
edits, no cuts away, just one sequence of film. cold
blooded murder.

in the afterwards it is noted that Bechtel is seeking
damages of some amount from the country/government.


songbird

Yeah, that was Cochabamba, Bolivia, and it included the water that fell
from the sky. All the water belonged to Bechtel. Our Senator Feinstein's
husband sat on the board of directors of Bechtel.

In The Declaration of Independence it says, "for the support of this
Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine
Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and
our sacred Honor."

Then in the Pre-amble to the U.S. Constitution it says, "We the People
of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish
Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,
promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution
for the United States of America."

Maybe it's just me, but it looks like things got a little skewed-up. We
are we, until it comes to profit. Then it's mine, mine, mine.

The follow up to the original report is about 3 min. long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4EQ4YMb6-A&feature=related

The original segment from the film is about 5 min. long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5Fon_EjGw?


In a few years, if you want a breath of fresh air, you'll be able to buy
it at a store.

We are hoping for a couple of hundredths of an inch more rain tonight.
Wish us luck.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Billy wrote:

In a few years, if you want a breath of fresh air, you'll be able to
buy it at a store.

We are hoping for a couple of hundredths of an inch more rain tonight.
Wish us luck.

Here we have a concept related to rainwater called 'harvestable right' . It
means that roughly 10% of the rain that falls on your land is yours to do
with as you wish, the rest must available for the environment or be allowed
to run down to the rivers for others to use. In practice it limits the size
of the dam you can build and the kind of waterway you can build it on. If
for example a permanent river crosses your land you can't dam that.

On top of that if you are on "permanent" fresh water, a river or lake, you
can pump from it (while it runs) without charge for 'bona fide domestic
purposes'. This includes stock watering, human consumption and gardens.
There is no specified limit to this in terms of volume although if you were
taking huge amounts somebody might come around and ask exactly what you are
doing with it. If you were irrigating on a commercial scale or selling it
you would be fined. If you want to irrigate on a commercial scale you have
to buy a water license.

Any attempt by government to take away any of these rights would have dire
consequences at the ballot box, as despite the fact that Oz is very urban
the cities have a romantic attachment to the 'bush' and a well organised
campaign by farmers would gather many votes.

For the small landholder and those running sheep or cattle this is a good
system. As for irrigators it seems they are never happy regardless of
government, policy, rainfall or anything else.

David

Billy wrote:
....
We are hoping for a couple of hundredths of an inch more rain tonight.
Wish us luck.

hope you had more than that? i heard the
snowpack doubled from that last series of storms.
that's good news even if it isn't back to normal.


songbird

David Hare-Scott wrote:
Billy wrote:

In a few years, if you want a breath of fresh air, you'll be able to
buy it at a store.

We are hoping for a couple of hundredths of an inch more rain tonight.
Wish us luck.

Here we have a concept related to rainwater called 'harvestable right' . It
means that roughly 10% of the rain that falls on your land is yours to do
with as you wish, the rest must available for the environment or be allowed
to run down to the rivers for others to use. In practice it limits the size
of the dam you can build and the kind of waterway you can build it on. If
for example a permanent river crosses your land you can't dam that.

that first part seems somewhat odd, as it would
likely help moderate and encourage ground water to
have a higher percentage available to be held back.
as it will eventually get into the creeks/rivers
eventually.

the second part i would agree with, because by
damming those sorts of waterways you would likely
be interfering with fish migrations or perhaps
raising the temperature of the water.


On top of that if you are on "permanent" fresh water, a river or lake, you
can pump from it (while it runs) without charge for 'bona fide domestic
purposes'. This includes stock watering, human consumption and gardens.
There is no specified limit to this in terms of volume although if you were
taking huge amounts somebody might come around and ask exactly what you are
doing with it. If you were irrigating on a commercial scale or selling it
you would be fined. If you want to irrigate on a commercial scale you have
to buy a water license.

that makes sense, but those who get there first
in a situation where supply is declining would
be those who would get it. sounds like eventually
there will be rationing when enough people want
to draw on it.


Any attempt by government to take away any of these rights would have dire
consequences at the ballot box, as despite the fact that Oz is very urban
the cities have a romantic attachment to the 'bush' and a well organised
campaign by farmers would gather many votes.

For the small landholder and those running sheep or cattle this is a good
system. As for irrigators it seems they are never happy regardless of
government, policy, rainfall or anything else.

for the longer term i think the ground water
situation would benefit from a higher percentage
of capture of rainfall. has anyone tried to
increase that percentage?


songbird