What a winter for North Carolina. Expecting 2 - 4 inches on top of the ice we got this morning. Screwing with my greenhouse and my germination in the house for sure. I guess I won't be planting in early March as I had planned.. Oh Mother Nature.....just keep us guessing.
MJ

wrote:
What a winter for North Carolina. Expecting 2 - 4 inches on top of
the ice we got this morning. Screwing with my greenhouse and my
germination in the house for sure. I guess I won't be planting in
early March as I had planned. Oh Mother Nature.....just keep us
guessing.
MJ

Ma Nature , being the fickle bitch that she is , may very well turn around
and give us an early and extended heat wave . And drought ... (sigh) I guess
we just have to take what comes and make the best of it . Farmers Almanac
said that we'd have a colder/wetter winter this year , so far they've been
right . I have 2 different what-to-plant-when schedules from the web , both
are in general agreement , BUT both are history-based so ...
But any way you cut it , now is the time to be starting seeds for
transplanting later . So far I have onions , 2 kinds of 'maters 2 more I
picked up seeds for today kale , lettuce , cauliflower , eggplants and
cayenne peppers in the starter trays . And they're all sitting on a low
table right in front of a southeast facing window where they get strong sun
all morning then great indirect light the rest of the day . I guess it's
time to get the tiller out and make sure it runs well . I'll be enlarging
the garden plot this year , after a great first year garden and that machine
has some seroius groundbreaking to do .
--
Snag

Terry Coombs wrote:
....
But any way you cut it , now is the time to be starting seeds for
transplanting later . So far I have onions , 2 kinds of 'maters 2 more I
picked up seeds for today kale , lettuce , cauliflower , eggplants and
cayenne peppers in the starter trays . And they're all sitting on a low
table right in front of a southeast facing window where they get strong sun
all morning then great indirect light the rest of the day . I guess it's
time to get the tiller out and make sure it runs well . I'll be enlarging
the garden plot this year , after a great first year garden and that machine
has some seroius groundbreaking to do .

so much easier to smother it and retain most of
the existing soil structure...

(we've not had a good tilling vs. smothering thread
in a while have we? )

or if you'd like to cut down on how much time you
do spend tilling, plot out the garden rows so that
you are only tilling the slices where you will be
actually planting and leave the rest to be smothered.
most tillers will let you remove blades so that you
can till thinner slices.


songbird

songbird wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote:
...
But any way you cut it , now is the time to be starting seeds for
transplanting later . So far I have onions , 2 kinds of 'maters 2
more I picked up seeds for today kale , lettuce , cauliflower ,
eggplants and cayenne peppers in the starter trays . And they're all
sitting on a low table right in front of a southeast facing window
where they get strong sun all morning then great indirect light the
rest of the day . I guess it's time to get the tiller out and make
sure it runs well . I'll be enlarging the garden plot this year ,
after a great first year garden and that machine has some seroius
groundbreaking to do .

so much easier to smother it and retain most of
the existing soil structure...

(we've not had a good tilling vs. smothering thread
in a while have we? )

or if you'd like to cut down on how much time you
do spend tilling, plot out the garden rows so that
you are only tilling the slices where you will be
actually planting and leave the rest to be smothered.
most tillers will let you remove blades so that you
can till thinner slices.


songbird

Mmmm , I don't think smothering is going to work on this one . This is
ground that not too long ago was hardwood forest . The trees were cut before
we got it 11 years ago , an oval clearing roughly 75' X 200' . It currently
has some wild grasses and mostly blackberries on it . I tilled up part of it
last year , and the results were *VERY* encouraging . The part closest to
the trees on the uphill side weren't so much , but plants farther out into
the clearing were amazing . I'll be doubling the size this year . And
tilling the hay from the henhouse into the part I broke last year , after
it's aged a bit . I'm really excited about this year !
--
Snag

Terry Coombs wrote:
cut before we got it 11 years ago , an oval clearing roughly 75' X
200' . It currently has some wild grasses and mostly blackberries on
it .

Clarification : That clearing also contains a 12X20 carport/shop ,
henhouse and yard , our 25' camping trailer , and the beginninge of our new
home . Last year's garden space was ~500 sf , this year probably 800-1000 .
--
Snag

In article
songbird writes:
Terry Coombs wrote:
...
But any way you cut it , now is the time to be starting seeds for
transplanting later . So far I have onions , 2 kinds of 'maters 2 more I
picked up seeds for today kale , lettuce , cauliflower , eggplants and
cayenne peppers in the starter trays . And they're all sitting on a low
table right in front of a southeast facing window where they get strong sun
all morning then great indirect light the rest of the day . I guess it's
time to get the tiller out and make sure it runs well . I'll be enlarging
the garden plot this year , after a great first year garden and that machine
has some seroius groundbreaking to do .

so much easier to smother it and retain most of
the existing soil structure...

(we've not had a good tilling vs. smothering thread
in a while have we? )

In my experience, whether mulch will kill lawn comes down to how
nice a lawn it is. The most common desirable turf grasses seem to
die really easy with mulch. The lawn weeds and invasive grasses
just laugh and thank you for removing the competition.

Of course, whether tilling those will kill them also varies.

My prefered garden expansion is to till, then put on a thick mulch
and plant *nothing*. For that season, I just dig out any green
thing that raises its head.

In reality, I get to do that for maybe 20% of new ground. Too much
to-do list and not enough daylight for my ideals.

or if you'd like to cut down on how much time you
do spend tilling, plot out the garden rows so that
you are only tilling the slices where you will be
actually planting and leave the rest to be smothered.
most tillers will let you remove blades so that you
can till thinner slices.


songbird


--
Drew Lawson | Broke my mind
| Had no spare
|

Terry Coombs wrote:
....
Mmmm , I don't think smothering is going to work on this one . This is
ground that not too long ago was hardwood forest . The trees were cut before
we got it 11 years ago , an oval clearing roughly 75' X 200' . It currently
has some wild grasses and mostly blackberries on it .

ah, i thought it was already back to a field that was
mowed once in a while. blackberries are a different story.
i'm assuming that since you already did a part of this
that you have something to knock them back (brush hog or
some other chopper/mower)?


I tilled up part of it
last year , and the results were *VERY* encouraging . The part closest to
the trees on the uphill side weren't so much , but plants farther out into
the clearing were amazing . I'll be doubling the size this year . And
tilling the hay from the henhouse into the part I broke last year , after
it's aged a bit . I'm really excited about this year !

i'm glad to see someone excited about gardening and
having a bigger garden.

has the hay been added already?

i would not till the hay into the previous garden.
what does that accomplish? is there anything growing
in that soil that will be able to use those nutrients
that quickly? if not, you're effectively wasting a
long term nutrient source for no purpose.

if instead, you scatter a small amount on the surface
and lightly rake it in, then you can plant into that
and you'll be fine. after planting a plot mulch around
using the rest and that will be an excellent longer term
soil nutrient source. as the rains come along they'll
stimulate the worms and other soil creatures to break
down the top mulch and since the rains also stimulate
the plants to grow then they are getting the nutrients
when they can actually use them. much less work and
better for the soil community.


songbird

songbird wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote:
...
Mmmm , I don't think smothering is going to work on this one .
This is ground that not too long ago was hardwood forest . The trees
were cut before we got it 11 years ago , an oval clearing roughly
75' X 200' . It currently has some wild grasses and mostly
blackberries on it .

ah, i thought it was already back to a field that was
mowed once in a while. blackberries are a different story.
i'm assuming that since you already did a part of this
that you have something to knock them back (brush hog or
some other chopper/mower)?


I tilled up part of it
last year , and the results were *VERY* encouraging . The part
closest to the trees on the uphill side weren't so much , but plants
farther out into the clearing were amazing . I'll be doubling the
size this year . And tilling the hay from the henhouse into the part
I broke last year , after it's aged a bit . I'm really excited about
this year !

i'm glad to see someone excited about gardening and
having a bigger garden.

has the hay been added already?

No , it's piled near the henhouse aging ...



i would not till the hay into the previous garden.
what does that accomplish? is there anything growing
in that soil that will be able to use those nutrients
that quickly? if not, you're effectively wasting a
long term nutrient source for no purpose.

Last year's garden will also be this year's garden , just with different
crops . Gotta figger out a rotation plan to keep the soil in shape .

if instead, you scatter a small amount on the surface
and lightly rake it in, then you can plant into that
and you'll be fine. after planting a plot mulch around
using the rest and that will be an excellent longer term
soil nutrient source. as the rains come along they'll
stimulate the worms and other soil creatures to break
down the top mulch and since the rains also stimulate
the plants to grow then they are getting the nutrients
when they can actually use them. much less work and
better for the soil community.


The new area will get the same treatment as the new got last year . Each
transplant will get a measure of manure mixed with the soil around it . Row
crops will get a line of same worked in as I form the rows . Last year's
will be partly planted in corn and pole beans , possibly that's where I'll
plant the kale , lettuces , and bok choi .

songbird

I'm really charged up about the garden . The one we had down in Memphis
was nothing compared to what I had here last year . I think it's more a
case of the soil there being poor than the soil here being extra-fertile ...
though both may apply . Either way , we'll be spending pretty close to zero
dollars this summer for fresh stuff , and my neighbors may start hiding when
they see me coming grin . I love living up here !
--
Snag

Terry Coombs wrote:
....
I'm really charged up about the garden . The one we had down in Memphis
was nothing compared to what I had here last year . I think it's more a
case of the soil there being poor than the soil here being extra-fertile ...
though both may apply .

it is harder to maintain soil organic content
in warmer climates -- beyond soil degredation
issues it's also tougher to restore.


Either way , we'll be spending pretty close to zero
dollars this summer for fresh stuff , and my neighbors may start hiding when
they see me coming grin . I love living up here !




songbird

Derald wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

The new area will get the same treatment as the new got last year .
Each transplant will get a measure of manure mixed with the soil
around it . Row crops will get a line of same worked in as I form
the rows . Last year's will be partly planted in corn and pole beans
, possibly that's where I'll plant the kale , lettuces , and bok
choi .
"Bok choi"; eyoww. On 25, Nov. I planted two closely spaced rows
of what was labeled "Organic Baby Pak Choy" along the edge of a bed of
mustard greens and garlic, expecting cute little plants such as were
illustrated on the seed packet; NOT. Those suckers grew so rampantly
that on 14, Dec. had to thin them mercilessly, transplanting a handful
at the end of a second bed. Maybe two weeks ago, I removed all of it
from the first bed and reduced the "handful" in the other to just ten
plants and they won't stop. The "baby" stuff is 20" tall and shows no
sign of slowing down. The remaining plants are spaced, nominally,
6"x6" and I hesitate to think of what they'd do with more space.
Daytime temps already are in the 80° (F) range and it remains to be
seen how the plants cope with heat, although, they still could be
subjected to late season chill, even the possibility of short-term
freezing overnight temps. Right now, they wilt rather badly in
mid-day and require considerable water. I see no evidence of root
knot, a common cause of wilting, but they may be suffering from high
soil temperature in their raised bed, a common malady of "cool
season" plants in these parts. Next year, I'll plant fewer and put
them in a bed that stays shady later into the season.

I'm starting out a little less ambitiously ... I have 6 plants in a
starter tray , we'll see how it goes . I plan on using it fresh-picked for
salads and stirfry , and try to pick it when the leaves are young and tender
.. Got a lot of stuff I'm trying for the first time this year ...
--
Snag

Derald wrote:

"Terry Coombs" wrote:

I'm starting out a little less ambitiously ... I have 6
plants in a
starter tray , we'll see how it goes . I plan on using it
fresh-picked for salads and stirfry , and try to pick it
when the leaves are young and tender . Got a lot of stuff
I'm trying for the first time this year ...
Well, my "rows" amounted to a four-foot double row. Gonna
leave the remaining ten plants in place, primarily to see
how they handle hot
weather. I'm thinking that, next year, five or six plants
will be more my speed, too.
Along with the bok choy, I'm trying a couple of other
new-to-me
stuff, too. Those that interest me most are celery and a
"new" variety of carrots.

I wish you luck with the celery.

I grew beautiful, plump and juicy celery in Michigan, but
my attempts in SE VA were a bust. Too stringy and thin
stalks. Between the long growing span of celery and the
heat here, celery wasn't happy and the results weren't
worth the effort and garden space.

Nyssa, who can't grow half of what she uses because it
won't grow here or the voles get it

Derald wrote:

Nyssa wrote:

I wish you luck with the celery.
Truth told, I am more hopeful than optimistic. Celery,
though, is a significant wintertime commercial crop down
around Lake Okechobee in south FL.

I grew beautiful, plump and juicy celery in Michigan, but
my attempts in SE VA were a bust. Too stringy and thin
stalks. Between the long growing span of celery and the
heat here, celery wasn't happy and the results weren't
worth the effort and garden space.

I know the feeling.... I have family in Newport News and
in
Gloucester and their gardens always do well. Of course, I
have no clue
whether any of them ever has grown celery. Perhaps you
can adjust
planting dates? Follow the locals' lead. Down here in
FL, northerners often have difficulty adjusting to seasons
that are out of phase with
those to which they'd been accustomed: Autumn, is the
start of the season for very many vegetables, including
celery, and fall-winter is the only time one has any hope
of growing lettuce, "English" peas, potatoes, etc.
My approach is to grow the most of what we eat the most
and DW
makes a mirepoix for pretty near every protein, it seems.
Today's supermarket prices put celery on the list.

Since celery usually takes around 120 days to maturity, by
the time I'd get the seedlings planted out into the garden,
there simply wasn't enough time of cool weather for good
development of tender, juicy stalks. The heat makes the
celery stringy and the stalks small.

I'm about 60 miles west of your Gloucester folks.


Nyssa, who can't grow half of what she uses because it
won't grow here or the voles get it
No voles here but I've seen the little boogers in
operation. We do have moles, though, which do not eat the
roots but tunnel among them causing damage from exposure.

Yep, the voles around here LOVE onions, carrots, potatoes...
anything with roots. Nothing like going out into the garden
and seeing just the green top of an onion sticking out of
an empty hole. Or pulling what you hope with be a big
carrot and finding someone else has already taken a bite
out of the side. sigh

Nyssa, who still hasn't ordered her seeds yet

Nyssa wrote:
Derald wrote:
....
Well, my "rows" amounted to a four-foot double row. Gonna
leave the remaining ten plants in place, primarily to see
how they handle hot
weather. I'm thinking that, next year, five or six plants
will be more my speed, too.
Along with the bok choy, I'm trying a couple of other
new-to-me
stuff, too. Those that interest me most are celery and a
"new" variety of carrots.

I wish you luck with the celery.

me too!


I grew beautiful, plump and juicy celery in Michigan, but
my attempts in SE VA were a bust. Too stringy and thin
stalks. Between the long growing span of celery and the
heat here, celery wasn't happy and the results weren't
worth the effort and garden space.

aww...


Nyssa, who can't grow half of what she uses because it
won't grow here or the voles get it

do you like fennel? it is much quicker and easier
to grow.


this year i'm adding pak choi and fennel to the mix.
we'll see how they do in various locations, some with
competition and others with none, and a variety of
soil places and moisture levels.


songbird

songbird wrote:

Nyssa wrote:
Derald wrote:
...
Well, my "rows" amounted to a four-foot double row.
Gonna leave the remaining ten plants in place, primarily
to see how they handle hot
weather. I'm thinking that, next year, five or six
plants will be more my speed, too.
Along with the bok choy, I'm trying a couple of other
new-to-me
stuff, too. Those that interest me most are celery and
a "new" variety of carrots.

I wish you luck with the celery.

me too!


I grew beautiful, plump and juicy celery in Michigan, but
my attempts in SE VA were a bust. Too stringy and thin
stalks. Between the long growing span of celery and the
heat here, celery wasn't happy and the results weren't
worth the effort and garden space.

aww...


Nyssa, who can't grow half of what she uses because it
won't grow here or the voles get it

do you like fennel? it is much quicker and easier
to grow.


this year i'm adding pak choi and fennel to the mix.
we'll see how they do in various locations, some with
competition and others with none, and a variety of
soil places and moisture levels.


songbird

I don't care for fennel, but I have grown bak choy
several times. I usually stick to the extra dwarf variety
for salads and the dwarf for use in stir fries and
soups.

I'd grow bak choy more often, but I'm the only one
who eats it. I can't give it away to the neighbors, ditto
any other Asian vegetable that I like, so I rarely grow
it anymore. It just rots since I can't use it all.

Nyssa, who needs to recruit neighbors who are more open
to "strange" foods

Derald wrote:

Nyssa wrote:

I'd grow bak choy more often, but I'm the only one
who eats it. I can't give it away to the neighbors, ditto
any other Asian vegetable that I like, so I rarely grow
it anymore. It just rots since I can't use it all.

Nyssa, who needs to recruit neighbors who are more open
to "strange" foods

So sneak it in as ingredient in something not overtly
"Asian".

Delicious sauteed lightly with garlic in olive oil;
replace spinach in quiche, meat "log" rolls, vegetarian
lasagna, etc.

Excellent substitute for spinace, although, the leaves
wilt down even more than does spinach, if you can believe
that.

DW is "experimenting" with freezing both stems and leaves
with an eye toward out-of-season use in dishes in which
texture doesn't matter much. Of course, since this is pak
choi's first time in my garden, I've no clue what the
"season" is down here but suspect the heat will slam it
pretty hard.

I'm single and live alone, so cooking with Asian
vegetables isn't a problem for *me* but my neighbors.
I'm surrounded by meat-and-potato types.

Yep, the hot weather will cause it to bolt almost
overnight, especially the extra dwarf stuff. You
have to use it when it's less than 2 inches tall...
or else.

Nyssa, who likes Asian food but can pass on Mexican
and most Italian stuff