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Old 25-04-2014, 12:37 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Community orchard

I got an email earlier from the woman who works for the city, and who is
in charge of our community garden. It is as follows:
---------------------------

Ok – well I don’t want to get your hopes up too much but I think the
City may be planting a few fruit trees this year! The only requirement
is that we need to make sure there are not a lot of dropped fruit that
will draw in critters. I’m not sure what kind just yet though…

Bryan, might you be in charge of something like this since you’ve been
longing for fruit trees for so long? You can help gather some other
gardeners to help to make sure we don’t draw any unwanted critters! If
it becomes a problem, the city said they will not hesitate to remove
them! Just a heads up! But I think this is very exciting and can’t
wait to see it put in place! We will be one of the first cities to have
our own mini city orchard. :-D


Thanks!

Mary

-------------------------

I replied:
-------------------------

That rocks. Where? Lindbergh Park? One way to avoid dropped fruit is
to plant only dwarf or semi-dwarf trees. These two apple trees are
perfect because they are semi-dwarf, and resistant to cedar rust, which
is a huge problem around here. They are good pollinators for each
other, and the apples ripen 3-4 weeks apart.

Freedom Apple from Stark Bro's

image


Freedom Apple from Stark Bro's
Exceptional disease resistance! Easy-care tree ideal for areas with
apple scab, powdery mildew, and fire blight issues. This vigorous tree
has a...

View on www.starkbros.com

Preview by Yahoo

Liberty Apple from Stark Bro's



image


Liberty Apple from Stark Bro's
A prolific bearer that excels where McIntosh won't. Tree is low-
maintenance due to its resistance to apple scab, cedar apple rust, fire
blight, and...

View on www.starkbros.com



One thing to avoid is pears. They attract wasps and yellowjackets.

This apricot is on a today only special for $14.99, as is the peach.
Wilson Delicious Apricot from Stark Bro's

image


Wilson Delicious Apricot from Stark Bro's
Our best all-purpose apricot. One of the heaviest bearing varieties,
this tree will yield impressive crops every year. Firm, luscious,
golden...

View on www.starkbros.com



Reliance Peach from Stark Bro's

image


Reliance Peach from Stark Bro's
Our most cold-hardy peach. Originally developed in New Hampshire, this
tree produces a heavy crop of fruit as far north as Canada, even after
frigid...

View on www.starkbros.com


And Mary, I will personally make sure that there will be no problems
with dropped fruit. Glendale has had no problems with the peach and
apple trees planted in the median of Lockwood, just east of Sappington.

--Bryan
------------------------------


To Me
Today at 3:52 PM
Yes it would be at Lindbergh park. Can I ask a favor? Might you be able
to make some markings of where a good place would be near the garden
without blocking sunlight of course that would be good to plant the
trees? I'd mark maybe 6 spots as I'm not sure how many they are
thinking? You could just mark it with rocks or sticks or something? Do
you mind? You prob have an idea already where they'd work well. I
forwarded your email below so hopefully they will go with your
recommendations.
------------------------------

To Mary
Today at 4:34 PM
There are six stakes in the ground to the north-northwest of the garden
enclosure.

--Bryan
------------------------------

We are going to have a community orchard! I've been trying to make this
happen for 3 or 4 years.

--
--Bryan
"The 1960's called. They want their recipe back."
--Steve Wertz in rec.food.cooking 4-20-2009
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Old 25-04-2014, 01:28 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Community orchard

One way to avoid dropped fruit
is to plant only dwarf or semi-dwarf trees. These two apple trees are
perfect because they are semi-dwarf, and resistant to cedar rust,
which is a huge problem around here. They are good pollinators for
each other, and the apples ripen 3-4 weeks apart.


How does having semi-dwarf trees avoid dropped fruit?

D
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Old 25-04-2014, 02:12 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Community orchard

David Hare-Scott wrote:
One way to avoid dropped fruit
is to plant only dwarf or semi-dwarf trees. These two apple trees
are perfect because they are semi-dwarf, and resistant to cedar rust,
which is a huge problem around here. They are good pollinators for
each other, and the apples ripen 3-4 weeks apart.


How does having semi-dwarf trees avoid dropped fruit?


People can reach the fruit to pick it?

Good job Bryan!!



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Old 25-04-2014, 02:33 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Community orchard

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in news:ljc6nc$d60$1
@news.albasani.net:

One way to avoid dropped fruit
is to plant only dwarf or semi-dwarf trees. These two apple trees are
perfect because they are semi-dwarf, and resistant to cedar rust,
which is a huge problem around here. They are good pollinators for
each other, and the apples ripen 3-4 weeks apart.


How does having semi-dwarf trees avoid dropped fruit?

People can reach to pick the fruit before it falls.

D




--
--Bryan
"The 1960's called. They want their recipe back."
--Steve Wertz in rec.food.cooking 4-20-2009
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Old 25-04-2014, 04:52 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Community orchard

Winters_Lackey wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in news:ljc6nc$d60$1
@news.albasani.net:

One way to avoid dropped fruit
is to plant only dwarf or semi-dwarf trees. These two apple trees
are perfect because they are semi-dwarf, and resistant to cedar
rust, which is a huge problem around here. They are good
pollinators for each other, and the apples ripen 3-4 weeks apart.


How does having semi-dwarf trees avoid dropped fruit?

People can reach to pick the fruit before it falls.


So this community will have the equipment and energy to manage the fruit
trees through the year ( watering, fertilising, spraying and pruning as
required) but cannot find a ladder at harvest time. Seems odd.

D



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Old 25-04-2014, 06:35 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On 25/04/2014 12:52 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Winters_Lackey wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in news:ljc6nc$d60$1
@news.albasani.net:

One way to avoid dropped fruit
is to plant only dwarf or semi-dwarf trees. These two apple trees
are perfect because they are semi-dwarf, and resistant to cedar
rust, which is a huge problem around here. They are good
pollinators for each other, and the apples ripen 3-4 weeks apart.

How does having semi-dwarf trees avoid dropped fruit?

People can reach to pick the fruit before it falls.


So this community will have the equipment and energy to manage the fruit
trees through the year ( watering, fertilising, spraying and pruning as
required) but cannot find a ladder at harvest time. Seems odd.


:-)) It does, but then 'the city' sounds particularly dozy.

That para about the requirement from 'the city' to not have a lot of
dropped fruiting in case it draws in 'critters' just beggars belief.
Whoever put that stricture in place needs to get out more and, at the
very least, find out what lives down their drains. I've seen estimates
that no human on earth is ever more than 15 ft from a rat and that came
as no surprise to me whatsoever. And rats are only one sort of critter.
I haven't mentioned any critters with only 2 legs.
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Old 25-04-2014, 06:42 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Community orchard

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in news:ljcikg$htm$1
@news.albasani.net:

Winters_Lackey wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in news:ljc6nc$d60$1
@news.albasani.net:

One way to avoid dropped fruit
is to plant only dwarf or semi-dwarf trees. These two apple trees
are perfect because they are semi-dwarf, and resistant to cedar
rust, which is a huge problem around here. They are good
pollinators for each other, and the apples ripen 3-4 weeks apart.

How does having semi-dwarf trees avoid dropped fruit?

People can reach to pick the fruit before it falls.


So this community will have the equipment and energy to manage the fruit
trees through the year ( watering, fertilising, spraying and pruning as
required) but cannot find a ladder at harvest time. Seems odd.

David, the members of the community garden will water and fertilize, and
the cultivars suggested shouldn't require spraying. These trees are
intended to be browsed by anyone using the park. The concept is expansive.
Families with young children can lift their little ones up to pluck a
fruit. My wife is upset by the fact that our raised bed gardens are
enclosed by a fence, but the fruit trees will be for everyone. What a joy
for a child to eat fruit directly from the tree.

Urban agriculture builds community. We grow flowers in our front yards,
and that's not only for our own enjoyment, but to beautify the experience
of anyone who walks past. It's not just about prestige, but about sharing
beauty.

Ideally, these fruit trees should be a place where neighbors meet neighbors
that they wouldn't otherwise speak to. It's easy to share a smile with a
stranger when you're both munching on apples picked fron the same tree.

D





--
--Bryan
"The 1960's called. They want their recipe back."
--Steve Wertz in rec.food.cooking 4-20-2009
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Old 25-04-2014, 09:56 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Winters_Lackey wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in news:ljcikg$htm$1
@news.albasani.net:

Winters_Lackey wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in news:ljc6nc$d60$1
@news.albasani.net:

One way to avoid dropped fruit
is to plant only dwarf or semi-dwarf trees. These two apple trees
are perfect because they are semi-dwarf, and resistant to cedar
rust, which is a huge problem around here. They are good
pollinators for each other, and the apples ripen 3-4 weeks apart.

How does having semi-dwarf trees avoid dropped fruit?

People can reach to pick the fruit before it falls.


So this community will have the equipment and energy to manage the
fruit trees through the year ( watering, fertilising, spraying and
pruning as required) but cannot find a ladder at harvest time.
Seems odd.

David, the members of the community garden will water and fertilize,
and the cultivars suggested shouldn't require spraying. These trees
are intended to be browsed by anyone using the park. The concept is
expansive. Families with young children can lift their little ones up
to pluck a fruit. My wife is upset by the fact that our raised bed
gardens are enclosed by a fence, but the fruit trees will be for
everyone. What a joy for a child to eat fruit directly from the tree.


No doubt about that. The trouble is that the children (and many adults) are
not in a position to decide when this might be appropriate. Biting into
green fruit is not going to give them that wow sensation a tree-ripened
fruit will. It is likely to send them back to the mediocrity of the
supermarket. As I did with the children, so I will do with the
grandchildren, I decide when they can have fruit off the tree not them.
Then they pick and enjoy. Full size trees out of reach of little ones is a
benefit not a problem.

I had a neighbour who battled with the local council to have a vege garden
on the public land along the road in front of his house. He wanted to do it
as a demonstration and as a public service. He wanted people to help
themselves and build community and he wasn't asking for anything from
anybody. He was heartbroken when one night ALL the tomatos vanished. Not
because he begrudged the taking but because most were quite immature, green
and hard, down to the size of marbles, and because the takers broke half the
plants in their greedy rush. It was just a total waste of a good thing.

Urban agriculture builds community. We grow flowers in our front
yards, and that's not only for our own enjoyment, but to beautify the
experience of anyone who walks past. It's not just about prestige,
but about sharing beauty.


Nice ideals. If you don't have any existing community feeling to modify bad
behaviour to start with the selfish or vandal minority will wreck your
scheme. This is the problem with cities nobody knows their neighbours and
so they retreat into the anonymity that cloaks antisocial actions. If they
are guilty they feel likely to get away with it, if they are innocent they
"don't see" the perp in the name of minding their own business and avoiding
trouble. By itself a few fruit trees is not going to fix that.

Ideally, these fruit trees should be a place where neighbors meet
neighbors that they wouldn't otherwise speak to. It's easy to share
a smile with a stranger when you're both munching on apples picked
fron the same tree.


Good luck. Really I hope it works but I fear it won't.

D


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Old 25-04-2014, 01:56 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Fran Farmer wrote:
That para about the requirement from 'the city' to not have a lot of
dropped fruiting in case it draws in 'critters' just beggars belief.
Whoever put that stricture in place needs to get out more and, at the
very least, find out what lives down their drains. I've seen
estimates that no human on earth is ever more than 15 ft from a rat
and that came as no surprise to me whatsoever. And rats are only one
sort of critter. I haven't mentioned any critters with only 2 legs.


I'd have to disagree with that 15 feet statement ... I live out in the
country , and we have a lot of critters , but AFAIK there are no rats out
here . Perhaps on some of the nearby farms where they store large quantities
of grain and feed , but we have none of those here in The Holler ...
--
Snag
But some 2-legged ones
live down the road ...


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Old 26-04-2014, 03:46 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On 25/04/2014 9:56 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote:
That para about the requirement from 'the city' to not have a lot of
dropped fruiting in case it draws in 'critters' just beggars belief.
Whoever put that stricture in place needs to get out more and, at the
very least, find out what lives down their drains. I've seen
estimates that no human on earth is ever more than 15 ft from a rat
and that came as no surprise to me whatsoever. And rats are only one
sort of critter. I haven't mentioned any critters with only 2 legs.


I'd have to disagree with that 15 feet statement ... I live out in the
country , and we have a lot of critters , but AFAIK there are no rats out
here . Perhaps on some of the nearby farms where they store large quantities
of grain and feed , but we have none of those here in The Holler ...


Ya wanna bet?

I've lived in the country for 50 years and know that there are many rats
and mice in the country and there will be rats and mice where you live too.



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Old 26-04-2014, 10:58 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Fran Farmer wrote:
On 25/04/2014 9:56 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote:
That para about the requirement from 'the city' to not have a lot of
dropped fruiting in case it draws in 'critters' just beggars belief.
Whoever put that stricture in place needs to get out more and, at
the very least, find out what lives down their drains. I've seen
estimates that no human on earth is ever more than 15 ft from a rat
and that came as no surprise to me whatsoever. And rats are only
one sort of critter. I haven't mentioned any critters with only 2
legs.


I'd have to disagree with that 15 feet statement ... I live out
in the country , and we have a lot of critters , but AFAIK there are
no rats out here . Perhaps on some of the nearby farms where they
store large quantities of grain and feed , but we have none of those
here in The Holler ...


Ya wanna bet?

I've lived in the country for 50 years and know that there are many
rats and mice in the country and there will be rats and mice where
you live too.


Well , if they're here they're staying well hideen indeed . I have seen no
sign of any kind that rats are present . And they do leave signs of their
presence . You do realize that I live way out in the woods ?
--
Snag


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Old 27-04-2014, 09:37 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On 27/04/2014 6:58 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote:
On 25/04/2014 9:56 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote:
That para about the requirement from 'the city' to not have a lot of
dropped fruiting in case it draws in 'critters' just beggars belief.
Whoever put that stricture in place needs to get out more and, at
the very least, find out what lives down their drains. I've seen
estimates that no human on earth is ever more than 15 ft from a rat
and that came as no surprise to me whatsoever. And rats are only
one sort of critter. I haven't mentioned any critters with only 2
legs.

I'd have to disagree with that 15 feet statement ... I live out
in the country , and we have a lot of critters , but AFAIK there are
no rats out here . Perhaps on some of the nearby farms where they
store large quantities of grain and feed , but we have none of those
here in The Holler ...


Ya wanna bet?

I've lived in the country for 50 years and know that there are many
rats and mice in the country and there will be rats and mice where
you live too.


Well , if they're here they're staying well hideen indeed .


They do that. Rats are very, very shy. Over the last 10 or even 15
years I've only ever seen one live one during the day and I wage
constant war against them.

I have seen no
sign of any kind that rats are present . And they do leave signs of their
presence . You do realize that I live way out in the woods ?


Why would you think that living in the woods means no rats nearby?
The only known rat free areas of the world are the Arctic and the
Antarctic (no food in those places) and some island conservation areas
(because serious money has been spent on ensuring they are made rat free).

Rats eat anything and everything including eggs seeds, grains, insects
and even molluscs. Unless your woods glow in the dark and kill
everything that lives in them in a short span of time, then your woods
would provide lots of good food for rats. Presumably since you are
posting in a gardening newsgroup then you also have a garden and that
too would give lots of food for rats.
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Old 27-04-2014, 01:22 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Fran Farmer wrote:
Rats eat anything and everything including eggs seeds, grains, insects
and even molluscs. Unless your woods glow in the dark and kill
everything that lives in them in a short span of time, then your
woods would provide lots of good food for rats. Presumably since you
are posting in a gardening newsgroup then you also have a garden and
that too would give lots of food for rats.



There's also lots of stuff out there in the woods that would love to snack
on those rats .
--
Snag


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Old 27-04-2014, 07:41 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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"David Hare-Scott" wrote in
:




Good luck. Really I hope it works but I fear it won't.

The community is already quite nice, and gets better every year. My wife
walks home from work at 9 pm ever Mon, Tuesday, and I have no worries. We
joined the Garden Club today, something we hadn't done in years past
because I was too frugal (cheap) to pay the $30 fee.

D





--
--Bryan
"The 1960's called. They want their recipe back."
--Steve Wertz in rec.food.cooking 4-20-2009
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Old 28-04-2014, 06:18 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On 27/04/2014 9:22 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote:
Rats eat anything and everything including eggs seeds, grains, insects
and even molluscs. Unless your woods glow in the dark and kill
everything that lives in them in a short span of time, then your
woods would provide lots of good food for rats. Presumably since you
are posting in a gardening newsgroup then you also have a garden and
that too would give lots of food for rats.



There's also lots of stuff out there in the woods that would love to snack
on those rats .


Yep. Same here. Despite that, they still manage to breed and still
give me a run for my money. Jack Russells were the best control measure
but we non longer have any of them unfortunately.

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