Once upon a time on usenet George Shirley wrote:
[snip]
Just happen to have one that I don't use much, may give it a try next
season on the tomatoes. That's if I don't see any pollinators as
happened this year.

It's got to be worth a try. The research I read yesterday showed a
correlation between 'over-pollinated' tomato flowers and large fruit so even
if you'd have got fruit anyway your labours won't be wasted.

I hope the A holes who sprayed around here by air
and the builders who destroyed a virgin forest behind us have a bad
crop too.

A-men to that brother. May they reap what they sow.....
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Once upon a time on usenet ~misfit~ wrote:
Once upon a time on usenet Derald wrote:
[snipped]
A casual Google search hit on several online sources here in the
States, all selling Bombus bees under the same brand name (Natupol).
Although all provide instructions for use, none of them advises how
to maintain a viable local bee population. Why would that be, one
wonders....


Probably because bumble bee nests are short-lived, a season at most.
However it's possible to bone up on all things bumble bee and make
(or purchase) excelleny nesting sites and encourage (or capture) new
young queens and establish new nests.

Here are a couple of links to sites I found on bumble bees and their life
cycle;

http://www.bumblebee.org/lifecycle.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Bumblebee#p007vh74

I hope the second one is avaiable to you there, it's quite interesting with
some video material.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 18:41:58 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:


Just happen to have one that I don't use much, may give it a try next
season on the tomatoes. That's if I don't see any pollinators as
happened this year. I hope the A holes who sprayed around here by air
and the builders who destroyed a virgin forest behind us have a bad crop
too.

We have suffered from lack of pollinators this year, too - at least
for the cukes. It is hard to screw up growing cukes, but I have had
trouble with 2 varieties, grown far enough apart so that I know there
is something odd going on.

We do seem to have lots of little critters buzzing around the rest of
the flowers and fruits, but I am guessing whatever preferred cukes had
a bit of a population crash this year.

And I discovered that it hasn't been 4 footed mini-mammals destroying
the tomatoes - it's been mockingbirds!

On 8/10/2015 6:04 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 18:41:58 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:


Just happen to have one that I don't use much, may give it a try next
season on the tomatoes. That's if I don't see any pollinators as
happened this year. I hope the A holes who sprayed around here by air
and the builders who destroyed a virgin forest behind us have a bad crop
too.

We have suffered from lack of pollinators this year, too - at least
for the cukes. It is hard to screw up growing cukes, but I have had
trouble with 2 varieties, grown far enough apart so that I know there
is something odd going on.

We do seem to have lots of little critters buzzing around the rest of
the flowers and fruits, but I am guessing whatever preferred cukes had
a bit of a population crash this year.

And I discovered that it hasn't been 4 footed mini-mammals destroying
the tomatoes - it's been mockingbirds!

Yup, had that problem last year but not this year. Has happened to us
many times and the ag agent said they're worse in drought years because
they're after the liquid and the seeds. We set up a small bird bath made
with a plastic bowl from a pot set and they seem to prefer that. Mostly
I see them eating insects nowadays, of which we have plenty of.

Tilly Dawg got a rat in the garden today, saw her ears go up and then
she pounced and brought me a nice sized field rat, probably from the
retention pond area behind our house. She didn't eat it though, just
killed it and brought it to me so it went straight to the trash can and
today is trash pick up day. Good Dawg!

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:36:52 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:

On 8/10/2015 6:04 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 18:41:58 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:


Just happen to have one that I don't use much, may give it a try next
season on the tomatoes. That's if I don't see any pollinators as
happened this year. I hope the A holes who sprayed around here by air
and the builders who destroyed a virgin forest behind us have a bad crop
too.

We have suffered from lack of pollinators this year, too - at least
for the cukes. It is hard to screw up growing cukes, but I have had
trouble with 2 varieties, grown far enough apart so that I know there
is something odd going on.

We do seem to have lots of little critters buzzing around the rest of
the flowers and fruits, but I am guessing whatever preferred cukes had
a bit of a population crash this year.

And I discovered that it hasn't been 4 footed mini-mammals destroying
the tomatoes - it's been mockingbirds!

Yup, had that problem last year but not this year. Has happened to us
many times and the ag agent said they're worse in drought years because
they're after the liquid and the seeds. We set up a small bird bath made
with a plastic bowl from a pot set and they seem to prefer that. Mostly
I see them eating insects nowadays, of which we have plenty of.

The folks next door have a waterfall and not more than 50 years the
other way is a stream. My mockingbirds have a mean streak.

Tilly Dawg got a rat in the garden today, saw her ears go up and then
she pounced and brought me a nice sized field rat, probably from the
retention pond area behind our house. She didn't eat it though, just
killed it and brought it to me so it went straight to the trash can and
today is trash pick up day. Good Dawg!

Oh, you'll like this tale then...

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/inde...ckstarter.html

On 8/10/2015 9:38 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:36:52 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:

On 8/10/2015 6:04 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 18:41:58 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:


Just happen to have one that I don't use much, may give it a try next
season on the tomatoes. That's if I don't see any pollinators as
happened this year. I hope the A holes who sprayed around here by air
and the builders who destroyed a virgin forest behind us have a bad crop
too.

We have suffered from lack of pollinators this year, too - at least
for the cukes. It is hard to screw up growing cukes, but I have had
trouble with 2 varieties, grown far enough apart so that I know there
is something odd going on.

We do seem to have lots of little critters buzzing around the rest of
the flowers and fruits, but I am guessing whatever preferred cukes had
a bit of a population crash this year.

And I discovered that it hasn't been 4 footed mini-mammals destroying
the tomatoes - it's been mockingbirds!

Yup, had that problem last year but not this year. Has happened to us
many times and the ag agent said they're worse in drought years because
they're after the liquid and the seeds. We set up a small bird bath made
with a plastic bowl from a pot set and they seem to prefer that. Mostly
I see them eating insects nowadays, of which we have plenty of.

The folks next door have a waterfall and not more than 50 years the
other way is a stream. My mockingbirds have a mean streak.

Tilly Dawg got a rat in the garden today, saw her ears go up and then
she pounced and brought me a nice sized field rat, probably from the
retention pond area behind our house. She didn't eat it though, just
killed it and brought it to me so it went straight to the trash can and
today is trash pick up day. Good Dawg!

Oh, you'll like this tale then...

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/inde...ckstarter.html

That is a great story, I was grinning by the end of it. Here in Texas
they frown only if you kill someone else's dog or the someone else. From
the TV news you would think this is kill someone city but, with over
five million people living here in the Houston area, that's not even
news anymore.

I was surprised that Tilly wouldn't eat the rat because our old rat
terrier would even eat the cats she killed when they came in our yard.
Tilly won't even chase cats away, she thinks they want to play. Right
now she's snoring away on the couch here in my office.

I don't know how I ended up with a snoring wife and a snoring dog and
they're snoring at different octaves.

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:33:23 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:

On 8/10/2015 9:38 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:36:52 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:

Tilly Dawg got a rat in the garden today, saw her ears go up and then
she pounced and brought me a nice sized field rat, probably from the
retention pond area behind our house. She didn't eat it though, just
killed it and brought it to me so it went straight to the trash can and
today is trash pick up day. Good Dawg!

Oh, you'll like this tale then...

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/inde...ckstarter.html

That is a great story, I was grinning by the end of it. Here in Texas
they frown only if you kill someone else's dog or the someone else. From
the TV news you would think this is kill someone city but, with over
five million people living here in the Houston area, that's not even
news anymore.

This episode was all over the news here in NJ when it happened. What a
dust-up.

If the authorities ever knew how many critters were relocated off our
property, they'd flip out. We've been kind enough not to drown them
all and my husband has done work at an industrial facility down near
one of the nearby rivers where our the ground hogs would fit right in.

Local regs say if you get animal services to trap destructive animals,
they have to be killed on the property or released.

I was surprised that Tilly wouldn't eat the rat because our old rat
terrier would even eat the cats she killed when they came in our yard.
Tilly won't even chase cats away, she thinks they want to play. Right
now she's snoring away on the couch here in my office.

I don't know how I ended up with a snoring wife and a snoring dog and
they're snoring at different octaves.

You should have heard my husband, though it is very quiet here now
that he has a CPAP.

On 8/10/2015 5:21 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:33:23 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:

On 8/10/2015 9:38 AM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:36:52 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:

Tilly Dawg got a rat in the garden today, saw her ears go up and then
she pounced and brought me a nice sized field rat, probably from the
retention pond area behind our house. She didn't eat it though, just
killed it and brought it to me so it went straight to the trash can and
today is trash pick up day. Good Dawg!

Oh, you'll like this tale then...

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/inde...ckstarter.html

That is a great story, I was grinning by the end of it. Here in Texas
they frown only if you kill someone else's dog or the someone else. From
the TV news you would think this is kill someone city but, with over
five million people living here in the Houston area, that's not even
news anymore.

This episode was all over the news here in NJ when it happened. What a
dust-up.

If the authorities ever knew how many critters were relocated off our
property, they'd flip out. We've been kind enough not to drown them
all and my husband has done work at an industrial facility down near
one of the nearby rivers where our the ground hogs would fit right in.

Local regs say if you get animal services to trap destructive animals,
they have to be killed on the property or released.

I was surprised that Tilly wouldn't eat the rat because our old rat
terrier would even eat the cats she killed when they came in our yard.
Tilly won't even chase cats away, she thinks they want to play. Right
now she's snoring away on the couch here in my office.

I don't know how I ended up with a snoring wife and a snoring dog and
they're snoring at different octaves.

You should have heard my husband, though it is very quiet here now
that he has a CPAP.

My wife and our daughter are both on CPAP's, wife for about ten years,
daughter for maybe two years. Daughter was born in 1961 and even snored
as a baby. Wife didn't snore for most of our 55 year marriage but when
she started it was startling. She claims I snore too but I've never
heard myself two rooms away. G And I've never awakened with a dry
throat. At least neither of them talks in their sleep, eldest
granddaughter carries on complete conversations while sleeping. When she
was young she would be arguing with her brothers, now that she's
approaching thirty I don't know who she argues with.

My sleeping problem is a busy mind, I wake up and find I've been
figuring out how to build, tear down, move, or whatever some project I
have in mind. To bad I don't write in my sleep.

Actually, if wife or dog quits snoring I wake up alarmed. Gets scary at
times.

Repeating thermometer on the shaded back porch says we are at 104F right
here at 1855 hours CST.

Once upon a time on usenet Derald wrote:
"~misfit~" wrote:



Probably because bumble bee nests are short-lived, a season at most.
However it's possible to bone up on all things bumble bee and make
(or purchase) excelleny nesting sites and encourage (or capture) new
young queens and establish new nests.

Also a lot of these commercial 'products' are aimed at greenhouse
growers of tomatoes and include a (limited) supply of 'nectar'
(often diluted low grade apis honey). While bumble bees can exists
mostly on pollen, as in a tomato greenhouse, they also need a
quantity of nectar. As tomatoes don't provide it commercially
supplied for growers nests incorporate a certain amount, enough to
keep the nest viable for six weeks or so, depending on supplier.
Oh, I understand that they're selling descendants of introduced
animals as pollination tools for the descendants of introduced plants.
Offhand, I can think of many reasons why so-called "naturalization"
wouldn't be possible. I can think of more why it wouldn't be
desirable :-)
Here in the States indigenous species are being sold and I'd
suppose the market to be off-season growers, urban and other gardeners
where habitat no longer exists.

Habitat is one of the problems with bumble bees in particular. In most
'developed countries' hedgerow and 'wild areas' are becoming increasingly
scarce. Every little bit of land is being used for something, farming is
more intensive and houses get closer together.... Then people wonder why
there are so few bumble bees (etc.). Honestly, I don't know where they
expect them to live. If a nest is discovered it's often destroyed in case
someone gets stung. sheakes head

When I was a lad we were taught to live alongside 'nature', not to
annihilate it lest it sting or bite us. I destroy introduced wasp nests if I
find them because they do nothing good and a lot of bad. However if I see a
bumble bee nest or honey bee swarm I just treat it with the respect that it
deserves.

There are no bumble bees in Australia (other than Tasmania) and consequently
it's complicated for them to grow certain crops. They're trying to enlist
the help of a native bee (blue banded?) that is known to buzz pollinate and
are working on how to 'commercialise' it, to get its number s up into
'useful' figures and keep them there in desired locations.

(There's a big anti-bumble lobby who're concerned that certain
currently-non-invasive introduced plants would become major problems if an
efficient buzz pollinator was present. A bit of a Catch-22 if you ask me
as, if they massively increase numbers of the native buzz pollinator then
surely that will facilitate the spread of these weeds?)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Once upon a time on usenet George Shirley wrote:

[snipped]

My sleeping problem is a busy mind, I wake up and find I've been
figuring out how to build, tear down, move, or whatever some project I
have in mind.

Mine too, always has been and has wreaked havok on my life. In the last
decade I've resorted to {prescribed) drugs and strict routines. However my
sleep cycle works best when I go to sleep at about 4am and rise at about
11am so that's what I do now. I've always had trouble sleeping much before
3am, as a school kid then later when I was working I'd get increasingly
sleep deprived during the week then catch up on Saturday and Sunday,
sleeping 'til noon.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

To update this;

The first two flower sprays didn't pollinate despite a fan blowing air
around and much finger-flicking. That's when I started reading the internet
and so started buzz pollinating with my electric toothbrush daily. Since
then I have small fruits forming on all flower sprays.

Unfortunately the tall straggly nature of cherry tomato plants means that
the plant has outgrown the available space by the third flower spray and, as
my budget is so tight I had to turn the heat off after a few weeks of no
fruit setting. So in one way it was a failure but in others it was a
success.

Lessons learned:
- Tomato plants need a certain amount of heat to fruit (=/17º C) and LEDs
are too efficient to have enough waste heat for the purposes (in my
situation).
- Cherry tomato plant retain their tall straggly growing style even in the
presence of very intense light and don't 'dwarf' like some other plants do
in the same situation. Growing single-spray ~ 3 leaf cuttings and multiple
plants would be a better option than a plant from seed for me.
- Buzz pollination is essential for growing tomatoes and in the absence of
insects an electric toothbush works very well.

I may try again next winter, growing with cuttings as outlined above and
with the LEDs in a 'light bar' arrangement so as to spread the light across
several short plants rather than using a (close to) point-source directly
above a single plant.

Another good thing to come out of this is that, now that my flowering cherry
trees are in full bloom and thick with Tuis and bees and the peach tree buds
have swollen and are starting to peek out I have several healthy cherry
tomato cuttings ready to go outside very soon (and a source for more).

I hope this experiment and the reporting thereof helps others with similar
interests.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:02:48 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:

To update this;

The first two flower sprays didn't pollinate despite a fan blowing air
around and much finger-flicking. That's when I started reading the internet
and so started buzz pollinating with my electric toothbrush daily. Since
then I have small fruits forming on all flower sprays.

snip for brevity only

Another good thing to come out of this is that, now that my flowering cherry
trees are in full bloom and thick with Tuis and bees and the peach tree buds
have swollen and are starting to peek out I have several healthy cherry
tomato cuttings ready to go outside very soon (and a source for more).

I hope this experiment and the reporting thereof helps others with similar
interests.


I am going to give this a try. I have been doing variations on this
theme for 40+ years, some successfully, some not....mostly with
flowers, orchids and exotic plants, but it is time to try tomatoes.

Right now, I have a "real" plant light set-up, with two bulbs, one for
leaf growth, one for flowering. This is all in an upstairs bedroom
deserted several years ago by kids who finally fledged, and there is
plenty of heat up there.

The only problem with the set up is that I have to be careful about
soil enrichment, as I really do not want to introduce insects into
bedrooms. So...I will get creative, but won't use any of my
delightfully lively compost.

I just got some indigo rose cherry tomato seeds and I might give those
a go.

I have played with rambling cherries, and they do quite well wrapped
around and over themselves and a couple of stakes. I run 'em in all
directions outside...they are so close together with stems overlapped,
that it can be tricky to pick the fruit. It is almost like a thick mat
of stems.

If I follow through, I will report back. I say this, as currently I
have so many tomatoes in the kitchen and the freezer and outside, that
I am tempted to take a looooooong tomato break.

Boron

Once upon a time on usenet Boron Elgar wrote:
On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:02:48 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:

To update this;

The first two flower sprays didn't pollinate despite a fan blowing
air around and much finger-flicking. That's when I started reading
the internet and so started buzz pollinating with my electric
toothbrush daily. Since then I have small fruits forming on all
flower sprays.

snip for brevity only

Another good thing to come out of this is that, now that my
flowering cherry trees are in full bloom and thick with Tuis and
bees and the peach tree buds have swollen and are starting to peek
out I have several healthy cherry tomato cuttings ready to go
outside very soon (and a source for more).

I hope this experiment and the reporting thereof helps others with
similar interests.


I am going to give this a try. I have been doing variations on this
theme for 40+ years, some successfully, some not....mostly with
flowers, orchids and exotic plants, but it is time to try tomatoes.

Right now, I have a "real" plant light set-up, with two bulbs, one for
leaf growth, one for flowering. This is all in an upstairs bedroom
deserted several years ago by kids who finally fledged, and there is
plenty of heat up there.

The only problem with the set up is that I have to be careful about
soil enrichment, as I really do not want to introduce insects into
bedrooms. So...I will get creative, but won't use any of my
delightfully lively compost.

I just got some indigo rose cherry tomato seeds and I might give those
a go.

I have played with rambling cherries, and they do quite well wrapped
around and over themselves and a couple of stakes. I run 'em in all
directions outside...they are so close together with stems overlapped,
that it can be tricky to pick the fruit. It is almost like a thick mat
of stems.

If I follow through, I will report back. I say this, as currently I
have so many tomatoes in the kitchen and the freezer and outside, that
I am tempted to take a looooooong tomato break.

A lot of my motivation in setting this up this came from us having 'false
start' spring then a cooler wet summer and me losing my outside tomato
plants. That and having the LEDs left over from building aquarium fixtures
(where I decided that the coloured 'grow-spectrum' LEDs I'd bought detracted
from the aquarium visuals too much so I mostly went with white light).

If you do go ahead good luck and it would be great to hear how it goes.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:44:02 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:


I just got some indigo rose cherry tomato seeds and I might give those
a go.


If you do go ahead good luck and it would be great to hear how it goes.


Will do.