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Old 05-08-2016, 08:32 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default okay, it is the soil!

Hi All,

Lesson learned, maybe.

This year for the first time I had reseeded tomatillos
sprouting up. Two of the guys seemed rather aggressive
and I was wondering if I was going to get some mutant
tomatillos. But they kept getting bigger and bigger.
Now I was curious. The leaves matches the pattern on
my other tomatillo, but now were five times there size.
And two and three feet tall.

Now I was really curious. So I got to thinking. These
look a lot like sunflowers. My neighbor grew the things
last year, so I wondered if he grew them again. Now I
am 5'8" and the fence is 6'. I was standing back about
20 feet. He had a sunflower sticking up about three feet
above the fence line. Sucker must me 9' tall! He had
a bunch of others, telltale flower and all, about 6' tall.

So the stinkers were sunflowers from his seeds last year!
But mine were only 2' and 3' tall. Hard on the ego,
black thumb and all.

Then I started to think. My neighbor imported soil from
the local soil and compost place and used raised beds.

Were mine had decided to grow, was in the decorative rocks:
decomposed sandstone covered for 22+ years. Some how they
had found a hole in the plastic and took root.

There is no other difference between me and him OTHER
than the soil. Same water, same light, same temperature,
same sun, same everything, except the soil.

Do I suppose too much? Or is this a good demonstration
on why I need to drastically improve my soil? (Where
I have been improving it, I seem to be doing pretty well
this year, so far.)

-T


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Old 09-08-2016, 05:46 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default okay, it is the soil!


"T" wrote in message ...
Hi All,

Lesson learned, maybe.


BIG SNIP


Then I started to think. My neighbor imported soil from
the local soil and compost place and used raised beds.

Were mine had decided to grow, was in the decorative rocks:
decomposed sandstone covered for 22+ years. Some how they
had found a hole in the plastic and took root.

There is no other difference between me and him OTHER
than the soil. Same water, same light, same temperature,
same sun, same everything, except the soil.

Do I suppose too much? Or is this a good demonstration
on why I need to drastically improve my soil? (Where
I have been improving it, I seem to be doing pretty well
this year, so far.)

-T



Anecdotally: This year I cleared a section of "lawn" to turn in to a garden
bed, basically turned over everything that was there and buried it in the
sand raked it to a fine tilth and picked weeds for a month or so. Rather
than leave it fallow for the winter and prior to any amendments I scattered
a couple of seed packs of leafy vegetables, spinach, silver beet and
lettuce. I mixed the seeds together and scattered carefully, if that's
possible. Looking at the way the seeds are growing it looks to me that
some parts of the patch have suitable nutrients and some have none at all.as
that seems to be the way the seedlings are showing all seeds grow at one
spot no seeds grow in another spot and these are scattered all over the
patch. Come the spring, Australian Winter at the moment, I shall be digging
in the compost to give the summer crop a better start.

Mike


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Old 09-08-2016, 06:05 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 3,072
Default okay, it is the soil!

T wrote:
....
Then I started to think. My neighbor imported soil from
the local soil and compost place and used raised beds.

Were mine had decided to grow, was in the decorative rocks:
decomposed sandstone covered for 22+ years. Some how they
had found a hole in the plastic and took root.

There is no other difference between me and him OTHER
than the soil. Same water, same light, same temperature,
same sun, same everything, except the soil.

Do I suppose too much? Or is this a good demonstration
on why I need to drastically improve my soil? (Where
I have been improving it, I seem to be doing pretty well
this year, so far.)


no, of course not, clearly, good soil is going to
make a difference.

to me the issues are how much you want to spend
for it and how much work it is to bring in good
topsoil. if you can afford it and are going to
grow a lot of veggies then it is usually worth
investing in good topsoil if your site doesn't
have it. if you are only going to grow a few
things then you can create it via bringing in
amendments and mixing your own (for a small area).
using some of your existing soil as a substrate
is ok. all good topsoil contains a certain amount
of sand.

in my own case, the soil here is clay and is
very fertile when we get enough rain. i can turn
it into excellent topsoil by adding some sand
and plenty of organic matter. my veggie garden
beds that i've been amending and working on for
the past years are all progressing well. at
minimal expense. if i wanted to speed things up
i'd just bring in 50 yards of topsoil and raise
the entire fenced garden area up, but that is
a huge amount of work considering all the pathways
and other hardscape stuff already in place and
it would have to be hauled in a wheelbarrow at a
time...

for what i am doing, keeping it simple and
minimal expense, it's just not worth it to do
that kind of retrofit.

that is why it's a good idea to get your main
ground features and plans sorted out before you
limit your access to an area. so much here would
have been much easier had i been able to truck and
dump stuff instead of having to haul it piecemeal.


songbird
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Old 09-08-2016, 02:07 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default okay, it is the soil!

Bloke Down The Pub wrote:
....
Anecdotally: This year I cleared a section of "lawn" to turn in to a garden
bed, basically turned over everything that was there and buried it in the
sand raked it to a fine tilth and picked weeds for a month or so. Rather
than leave it fallow for the winter and prior to any amendments I scattered
a couple of seed packs of leafy vegetables, spinach, silver beet and
lettuce. I mixed the seeds together and scattered carefully, if that's
possible. Looking at the way the seeds are growing it looks to me that
some parts of the patch have suitable nutrients and some have none at all.as
that seems to be the way the seedlings are showing all seeds grow at one
spot no seeds grow in another spot and these are scattered all over the
patch. Come the spring, Australian Winter at the moment, I shall be digging
in the compost to give the summer crop a better start.


i've seeded in a patch out back that i cleared
and did much the same, scattered a mix of old
seed packages.

fairly even coverage now. not much rain so
most of the greens aren't going to be great
quality and i'm only spot weeding it anyways
to keep the grasses from coming back.

before i scattered the seeds i used a wide
rake to make small dents for the seeds to
fall in and then i went back over it with the
rake a little to make sure some are covered
as some do like a certain depth for germination
and proper rooting.

in the mix are also the seeds for some longer
term perennial plants that will be the main
residents along with whatever strawberries i
transplant this fall.


songbird
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Old 11-08-2016, 09:43 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 1,112
Default okay, it is the soil!

On 08/08/2016 09:05 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
Then I started to think. My neighbor imported soil from
the local soil and compost place and used raised beds.

Were mine had decided to grow, was in the decorative rocks:
decomposed sandstone covered for 22+ years. Some how they
had found a hole in the plastic and took root.

There is no other difference between me and him OTHER
than the soil. Same water, same light, same temperature,
same sun, same everything, except the soil.

Do I suppose too much? Or is this a good demonstration
on why I need to drastically improve my soil? (Where
I have been improving it, I seem to be doing pretty well
this year, so far.)


no, of course not, clearly, good soil is going to
make a difference.

to me the issues are how much you want to spend
for it and how much work it is to bring in good
topsoil. if you can afford it and are going to
grow a lot of veggies then it is usually worth
investing in good topsoil if your site doesn't
have it. if you are only going to grow a few
things then you can create it via bringing in
amendments and mixing your own (for a small area).
using some of your existing soil as a substrate
is ok. all good topsoil contains a certain amount
of sand.

in my own case, the soil here is clay and is
very fertile when we get enough rain. i can turn
it into excellent topsoil by adding some sand
and plenty of organic matter. my veggie garden
beds that i've been amending and working on for
the past years are all progressing well. at
minimal expense. if i wanted to speed things up
i'd just bring in 50 yards of topsoil and raise
the entire fenced garden area up, but that is
a huge amount of work considering all the pathways
and other hardscape stuff already in place and
it would have to be hauled in a wheelbarrow at a
time...

for what i am doing, keeping it simple and
minimal expense, it's just not worth it to do
that kind of retrofit.

that is why it's a good idea to get your main
ground features and plans sorted out before you
limit your access to an area. so much here would
have been much easier had i been able to truck and
dump stuff instead of having to haul it piecemeal.


songbird


Hi Songbird,

I can't afford to barely eat with this recession
that won't quit, so I can not afford to import soil.
:'(

I am noticing that where ever I has added Peat Moss
to increase acidity and hold moisture, and did
your recommendation about burying weeds and other
vegetable matter, I am having good luck.

The neighbor's sunflower collection confirmed my suspicion
about my miserable soil

Got three large zukes this Monday. Tons of Purslane too.
My cherry tomatoes are starting to turn from orange to
red. Got about five Chinese lanterns on my Tomatillos.
And my Ancho has got little peppers all over it.
Just flower so far on my eggplants. No sign of squash
bugs for a while now.

Things are looking up.

-T

Man fresh zukes from the garden are good eating!


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Old 12-08-2016, 08:00 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 3,072
Default okay, it is the soil!

T wrote:
....
I can't afford to barely eat with this recession
that won't quit, so I can not afford to import soil.
:'(


yeah, i do understand, i'm underwater too each
month, just hoping interest rates can go up enough
that i can break even.


I am noticing that where ever I has added Peat Moss
to increase acidity and hold moisture, and did
your recommendation about burying weeds and other
vegetable matter, I am having good luck.


great! always keep your eyes open for free
organic materials. old veggies at the store
that might get thrown out, free for the asking
or if you get to a greenhouse and they are
throwing away old plants. ask them. or friends
who are throwing away potted plants. ask them.
wood pieces from tree cutting, bark, etc. from
wood cutting, sawdust, etc. it's all worth it
if you can get it. any time you see a tree
service cutting something down, stop and talk
and perhaps they'll deliver them for a few $ as
it might save them a lot of miles and a tipping
fee. talk to the neighbors.

mostly, just keep eyes peeled and some things
work out. a few inches of wood chips after a few
years turn into some great stuff.

and never give up! heehee!


The neighbor's sunflower collection confirmed my suspicion
about my miserable soil





Got three large zukes this Monday. Tons of Purslane too.
My cherry tomatoes are starting to turn from orange to
red. Got about five Chinese lanterns on my Tomatillos.
And my Ancho has got little peppers all over it.
Just flower so far on my eggplants. No sign of squash
bugs for a while now.

Things are looking up.

Man fresh zukes from the garden are good eating!


we did 21 quarts of pickles yesterday. going to
be super busy soon as tomatoes are finally starting
to turn.

have you ever tried pattypan squash?


songbird
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:52 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default okay, it is the soil!

On 08/11/2016 11:00 PM, songbird wrote:
we did 21 quarts of pickles yesterday. going to
be super busy soon as tomatoes are finally starting
to turn.


Awesome!

have you ever tried pattypan squash?

No, not yet

Have you grown them and how did they come out. Was there more
food created than off a regular zuke?

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/2638/2

Squash, summer, scallop (patty pan), cooked, boiled, drained

1 cup Mashed:
Calories 38.4 KCal
Carbs 8.2 grams
fiber 4.6 grams
Glycemic load 3

This is right up my alley!

But, but, but ...
http://gardening.about.com/od/vegeta...Pan-Squash.htm
says
Soil: Patty pan squash does best in a *rich*, well drained
soil and plenty of sun. Patty pan will grow in most
good soils, but prefers a soil pH that is *slightly
acidic*, about 6.1 to 6.5.

I am screwed.


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Old 12-08-2016, 07:09 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 177
Default okay, it is the soil!

In article , T wrote:

I can't afford to barely eat with this recession
that won't quit, so I can not afford to import soil.
:'(


Ask around and look around for anything useful - lawn clippings, dead
leaves, brush/chips/trimmings, any food waste or food preparation
byproducts, coffee grounds (particularly at the coffee-shop scale, but
any help...) as well as the more traditional herbivore food byproducts
(who's got a pet rabbit? A pet pony? A horse? A Guinea Pig? - they all
generate garden improving material, and many of them throw it away or
consider it a problem to get rid of.) It's more convenient if you can
find one large source, but many small sources add up.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:40 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 851
Default okay, it is the soil!

On 8/12/2016 12:09 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article , T wrote:

I can't afford to barely eat with this recession
that won't quit, so I can not afford to import soil.
:'(


Ask around and look around for anything useful - lawn clippings, dead
leaves, brush/chips/trimmings, any food waste or food preparation
byproducts, coffee grounds (particularly at the coffee-shop scale, but
any help...) as well as the more traditional herbivore food byproducts
(who's got a pet rabbit? A pet pony? A horse? A Guinea Pig? - they all
generate garden improving material, and many of them throw it away or
consider it a problem to get rid of.) It's more convenient if you can
find one large source, but many small sources add up.

Be careful with horse manure, many owners give them a lot of drugs to
keep them healthy. The drugs will show up in the manure sooner than
later. We got some manure from a fellow with race horses but I had the
manure tested first, threw it into a nearby dumpster. Grass and hay fed
critters without drugs are okay. Rabbit manure is the creme de la creme
of fertilizers, doesn't burn, composts readily, good stuff.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:51 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default okay, it is the soil!

T wrote:
songbird wrote:

....
have you ever tried pattypan squash?

No, not yet

Have you grown them and how did they come out. Was there more
food created than off a regular zuke?

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/2638/2

Squash, summer, scallop (patty pan), cooked, boiled, drained

1 cup Mashed:
Calories 38.4 KCal
Carbs 8.2 grams
fiber 4.6 grams
Glycemic load 3

This is right up my alley!

But, but, but ...
http://gardening.about.com/od/vegeta...Pan-Squash.htm
says
Soil: Patty pan squash does best in a *rich*, well drained
soil and plenty of sun. Patty pan will grow in most
good soils, but prefers a soil pH that is *slightly
acidic*, about 6.1 to 6.5.

I am screwed.


you'll get there eventually. keep scroungin!


songbird


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Old 13-08-2016, 02:05 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 1,112
Default okay, it is the soil!

On 08/12/2016 11:40 AM, George Shirley wrote:
On 8/12/2016 12:09 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article , T wrote:

I can't afford to barely eat with this recession
that won't quit, so I can not afford to import soil.
:'(


Ask around and look around for anything useful - lawn clippings, dead
leaves, brush/chips/trimmings, any food waste or food preparation
byproducts, coffee grounds (particularly at the coffee-shop scale, but
any help...) as well as the more traditional herbivore food byproducts
(who's got a pet rabbit? A pet pony? A horse? A Guinea Pig? - they all
generate garden improving material, and many of them throw it away or
consider it a problem to get rid of.) It's more convenient if you can
find one large source, but many small sources add up.

Be careful with horse manure, many owners give them a lot of drugs to
keep them healthy. The drugs will show up in the manure sooner than
later. We got some manure from a fellow with race horses but I had the
manure tested first, threw it into a nearby dumpster. Grass and hay fed
critters without drugs are okay. Rabbit manure is the creme de la creme
of fertilizers, doesn't burn, composts readily, good stuff.


Thank you guys!
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