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Old 12-11-2016, 12:23 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

My soil is very alkali. Is this a good idea?

https://www.amazon.com/Down-Earth-17...rds=humic+acid
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:55 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

In article , T wrote:

My soil is very alkali. Is this a good idea?

https://www.amazon.com/Down-Earth-17...011L3T6BS/ref=
sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1478841441&sr=8-5&keywords=humic+acid


It's likely highly cost-inefficient .vs. an actual source of humus,
(compost or compostable materials) which comes with humic acid as a free
byproduct. If you want something compact and _somewhat_ reasonable to
buy mailorder that will affect your soil pH, consider sulfur.

http://extension.usu.edu/files/publi..._Soils_2003-02.
pdf

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Old 12-11-2016, 01:00 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

On 11/11/2016 03:55 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article , T wrote:

My soil is very alkali. Is this a good idea?

https://www.amazon.com/Down-Earth-17...011L3T6BS/ref=
sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1478841441&sr=8-5&keywords=humic+acid


It's likely highly cost-inefficient .vs. an actual source of humus,
(compost or compostable materials) which comes with humic acid as a free
byproduct. If you want something compact and _somewhat_ reasonable to
buy mailorder that will affect your soil pH, consider sulfur.

http://extension.usu.edu/files/publi..._Soils_2003-02.
pdf


Great reference. Thank you!
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:10 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

T wrote:
My soil is very alkali. Is this a good idea?

https://www.amazon.com/Down-Earth-17...rds=humic+acid


humic acid is a somewhat weak acid which
is probably just leached from humus aka
rotten organic materials. probably no
better than what you would get from buying
bags of wood chips and letting them rot.

as you are trying to do things inexpensively
i always say go for whatever free organic
materials you can scrounge and keep growing
and harvesting weeds as well.

the mention of elemental sulfur as a pH
adjuster is ok, but what do you have to
hold that element in place? if you have
no topsoil, clay or loam it may mostly wash
or leach away.


songbird
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:47 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

On 11/11/2016 07:10 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
My soil is very alkali. Is this a good idea?

https://www.amazon.com/Down-Earth-17...rds=humic+acid


humic acid is a somewhat weak acid which
is probably just leached from humus aka
rotten organic materials. probably no
better than what you would get from buying
bags of wood chips and letting them rot.

as you are trying to do things inexpensively
i always say go for whatever free organic
materials you can scrounge and keep growing
and harvesting weeds as well.

the mention of elemental sulfur as a pH
adjuster is ok, but what do you have to
hold that element in place? if you have
no topsoil, clay or loam it may mostly wash
or leach away.


songbird


Hi Songbird,

So something that stays put, such as peat moss.

I was thinking on this for my beds where I did not mix the
peat and the dirt too well and I did not have a lot of peat
left.

And I have no end to the table scraps. Also, I have
used compost for years and it did no good (the
nutrients in dirt won't break up in alkali dirt).

Thank you for the help,

-T


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Old 12-11-2016, 03:19 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

T wrote:
....
So something that stays put, such as peat moss.


i like things that are bigger chunks for an
arid climate. then it can be used as a top
mulch to help keep up soil moisture levels and
it protects against the heat/wind evaporation.

pretty much any organic material will help
through time. keep looking around and stop any
time you see people doing tree work and ask
them what they do with the wood/wood chips, etc.
never hurts to ask.

adding some clay will help in so many ways
if your soil lacks it. clay/loam added to
sandy soil will make your other efforts work
out much better too.

without being there and seeing the soil you
are working with it's hard to tell what is best
to do first.


I was thinking on this for my beds where I did not mix the
peat and the dirt too well and I did not have a lot of peat
left.


did it blow away?

have you planted any alfalfa/clover or
any other cover crops?


And I have no end to the table scraps. Also, I have
used compost for years and it did no good (the
nutrients in dirt won't break up in alkali dirt).


it's all residual humus in the end, it can take a
lot of organic materials to end up at just a little
humus. in primarily sand too much gets leached
away.

i can have alkali dirt here that is powder from
crushed limestone yet it grows some plants very well.
poppies, lavender, love in a mist and as you've found
purselane does well almost anywhere.


songbird
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:28 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?


....

p.s.

she's usually worth listening to when it
comes down to soil stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzthQyMaQaQ


songbird
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:32 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

On 11/12/2016 06:19 AM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
So something that stays put, such as peat moss.


i like things that are bigger chunks for an
arid climate. then it can be used as a top
mulch to help keep up soil moisture levels and
it protects against the heat/wind evaporation.

pretty much any organic material will help
through time. keep looking around and stop any
time you see people doing tree work and ask
them what they do with the wood/wood chips, etc.
never hurts to ask.

adding some clay will help in so many ways
if your soil lacks it. clay/loam added to
sandy soil will make your other efforts work
out much better too.

without being there and seeing the soil you
are working with it's hard to tell what is best
to do first.


I was thinking on this for my beds where I did not mix the
peat and the dirt too well and I did not have a lot of peat
left.


did it blow away?

have you planted any alfalfa/clover or
any other cover crops?


And I have no end to the table scraps. Also, I have
used compost for years and it did no good (the
nutrients in dirt won't break up in alkali dirt).


it's all residual humus in the end, it can take a
lot of organic materials to end up at just a little
humus. in primarily sand too much gets leached
away.

i can have alkali dirt here that is powder from
crushed limestone yet it grows some plants very well.
poppies, lavender, love in a mist and as you've found
purselane does well almost anywhere.


songbird


I am after the instant acid / base reaction to neutralizer
the base in the soil. And Humic acid is not toxic
to plants and worms.

Then digging stuff under should be more effective.
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:37 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

On 12/9/2016 8:32 PM, T wrote:
On 11/12/2016 06:19 AM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
So something that stays put, such as peat moss.


i like things that are bigger chunks for an
arid climate. then it can be used as a top
mulch to help keep up soil moisture levels and
it protects against the heat/wind evaporation.

pretty much any organic material will help
through time. keep looking around and stop any
time you see people doing tree work and ask
them what they do with the wood/wood chips, etc.
never hurts to ask.

adding some clay will help in so many ways
if your soil lacks it. clay/loam added to
sandy soil will make your other efforts work
out much better too.

without being there and seeing the soil you
are working with it's hard to tell what is best
to do first.


I was thinking on this for my beds where I did not mix the
peat and the dirt too well and I did not have a lot of peat
left.


did it blow away?

have you planted any alfalfa/clover or
any other cover crops?


And I have no end to the table scraps. Also, I have
used compost for years and it did no good (the
nutrients in dirt won't break up in alkali dirt).


it's all residual humus in the end, it can take a
lot of organic materials to end up at just a little
humus. in primarily sand too much gets leached
away.

i can have alkali dirt here that is powder from
crushed limestone yet it grows some plants very well.
poppies, lavender, love in a mist and as you've found
purselane does well almost anywhere.


songbird


I am after the instant acid / base reaction to neutralizer
the base in the soil. And Humic acid is not toxic
to plants and worms.


At $12/pound???

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Old 10-12-2016, 06:54 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

On 12/09/2016 08:37 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 12/9/2016 8:32 PM, T wrote:
On 11/12/2016 06:19 AM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
So something that stays put, such as peat moss.

i like things that are bigger chunks for an
arid climate. then it can be used as a top
mulch to help keep up soil moisture levels and
it protects against the heat/wind evaporation.

pretty much any organic material will help
through time. keep looking around and stop any
time you see people doing tree work and ask
them what they do with the wood/wood chips, etc.
never hurts to ask.

adding some clay will help in so many ways
if your soil lacks it. clay/loam added to
sandy soil will make your other efforts work
out much better too.

without being there and seeing the soil you
are working with it's hard to tell what is best
to do first.


I was thinking on this for my beds where I did not mix the
peat and the dirt too well and I did not have a lot of peat
left.

did it blow away?

have you planted any alfalfa/clover or
any other cover crops?


And I have no end to the table scraps. Also, I have
used compost for years and it did no good (the
nutrients in dirt won't break up in alkali dirt).

it's all residual humus in the end, it can take a
lot of organic materials to end up at just a little
humus. in primarily sand too much gets leached
away.

i can have alkali dirt here that is powder from
crushed limestone yet it grows some plants very well.
poppies, lavender, love in a mist and as you've found
purselane does well almost anywhere.


songbird


I am after the instant acid / base reaction to neutralizer
the base in the soil. And Humic acid is not toxic
to plants and worms.


At $12/pound???


Ya, I know. I am only going to use one box.


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Old 10-12-2016, 06:58 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 1,112
Default Humic Acid?

On 12/09/2016 09:54 PM, T wrote:
On 12/09/2016 08:37 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 12/9/2016 8:32 PM, T wrote:
On 11/12/2016 06:19 AM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
So something that stays put, such as peat moss.

i like things that are bigger chunks for an
arid climate. then it can be used as a top
mulch to help keep up soil moisture levels and
it protects against the heat/wind evaporation.

pretty much any organic material will help
through time. keep looking around and stop any
time you see people doing tree work and ask
them what they do with the wood/wood chips, etc.
never hurts to ask.

adding some clay will help in so many ways
if your soil lacks it. clay/loam added to
sandy soil will make your other efforts work
out much better too.

without being there and seeing the soil you
are working with it's hard to tell what is best
to do first.


I was thinking on this for my beds where I did not mix the
peat and the dirt too well and I did not have a lot of peat
left.

did it blow away?

have you planted any alfalfa/clover or
any other cover crops?


And I have no end to the table scraps. Also, I have
used compost for years and it did no good (the
nutrients in dirt won't break up in alkali dirt).

it's all residual humus in the end, it can take a
lot of organic materials to end up at just a little
humus. in primarily sand too much gets leached
away.

i can have alkali dirt here that is powder from
crushed limestone yet it grows some plants very well.
poppies, lavender, love in a mist and as you've found
purselane does well almost anywhere.


songbird


I am after the instant acid / base reaction to neutralizer
the base in the soil. And Humic acid is not toxic
to plants and worms.


At $12/pound???


Ya, I know. I am only going to use one box.


Then I am generating tons of vegi scraps from cooking
that I am going to bury, not to mention all my dead
tomato plants. Lots of frozen green tomatoes to
bury too! Stinkers would never ripen. Now they
will be next year's tomatoes.
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:12 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Humic Acid?

T wrote:
....
I am after the instant acid / base reaction to neutralizer
the base in the soil. And Humic acid is not toxic
to plants and worms.


it is such a weak acid you are not getting
that much effect.

you would be much better off using sulfur, and
if you are digging it in and watering it well a
few weeks before planting it won't hurt plants.

after planting you can mix small amounts into
the top or sprinkle it on and it also won't hurt
plants.


Then digging stuff under should be more effective.


that's always going to help as long as the soil
community is there and some moisture to digest
things.


songbird
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