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Old 27-05-2017, 08:49 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default pot depth question

Hi All,

Last year I HACKED a bunch of ground pots into my so called
dirt. I tried to make them about 10 to 12" deep. The idea
was that they would not blow over and would have some slow
drainage (takes over a day to drain when I fill them with
water). I then mix dirt, organic fertilizer, and peat
moss back into the hole, sans the rocks. I worked.

This year I relocated the holes under the weeds and I found
that the old growth that was there last year had not developed
root more than about 3 to 4" deep, but width covered the hole.
I placed vegi scraps on the bottom of the holes, filled them
back in and added some organic fertilizer

This year I came across and six or so holes that I could
only shovel, hack, swear past about 6 to 7" deep. I hit
rocks of biblical proportion.

Question, should I give up on these holes as they are
too shallow? Or since the plant's root did not go that
deep, use them anyway?


Many thanks,
-T

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Old 28-05-2017, 12:14 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 13
Default pot depth question

On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:49:47 -0700, T wrote:

Hi All,

Last year I HACKED a bunch of ground pots into my so called dirt. I
tried to make them about 10 to 12" deep. The idea was that they would
not blow over and would have some slow drainage (takes over a day to
drain when I fill them with water). I then mix dirt, organic
fertilizer, and peat moss back into the hole, sans the rocks. I worked.

This year I relocated the holes under the weeds and I found that the old
growth that was there last year had not developed root more than about 3
to 4" deep, but width covered the hole.
I placed vegi scraps on the bottom of the holes, filled them back in and
added some organic fertilizer

This year I came across and six or so holes that I could only shovel,
hack, swear past about 6 to 7" deep. I hit rocks of biblical
proportion.

Question, should I give up on these holes as they are too shallow? Or
since the plant's root did not go that deep, use them anyway?


Many thanks,
-T


What type of plants were in these ground pots and how wide were the holes
at the top? Most plants don't send very many roots deep into the soil.
They send tap roots deep into the soil too help anchor them but about 75%
of a plants roots grow across the soil surface to gather moisture.
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Old 28-05-2017, 03:18 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default pot depth question

On 05/27/2017 04:14 PM, wg_2002 wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:49:47 -0700, T wrote:

Hi All,

Last year I HACKED a bunch of ground pots into my so called dirt. I
tried to make them about 10 to 12" deep. The idea was that they would
not blow over and would have some slow drainage (takes over a day to
drain when I fill them with water). I then mix dirt, organic
fertilizer, and peat moss back into the hole, sans the rocks. I worked.

This year I relocated the holes under the weeds and I found that the old
growth that was there last year had not developed root more than about 3
to 4" deep, but width covered the hole.
I placed vegi scraps on the bottom of the holes, filled them back in and
added some organic fertilizer

This year I came across and six or so holes that I could only shovel,
hack, swear past about 6 to 7" deep. I hit rocks of biblical
proportion.

Question, should I give up on these holes as they are too shallow? Or
since the plant's root did not go that deep, use them anyway?


Many thanks,
-T


What type of plants were in these ground pots and how wide were the holes
at the top? Most plants don't send very many roots deep into the soil.
They send tap roots deep into the soil too help anchor them but about 75%
of a plants roots grow across the soil surface to gather moisture.


Eggplant, zucchini, tomatillo

They are about 12 to 15" in diameter.

I did notice that the plants did not care for the surrounding
dirt. (I would not call it soil as it has all the nutritional
content of the moon.) It was like a 12" wide by 4" deep plug
of tiny roots.

Which bring up the question, am I placing the vegi scraps
too deep to be effective?


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Old 28-05-2017, 04:52 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default pot depth question

On 5/27/2017 7:18 PM, T wrote:
On 05/27/2017 04:14 PM, wg_2002 wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:49:47 -0700, T wrote:

Hi All,

Last year I HACKED a bunch of ground pots into my so called dirt. I
tried to make them about 10 to 12" deep. The idea was that they would
not blow over and would have some slow drainage (takes over a day to
drain when I fill them with water). I then mix dirt, organic
fertilizer, and peat moss back into the hole, sans the rocks. I worked.

This year I relocated the holes under the weeds and I found that the old
growth that was there last year had not developed root more than about 3
to 4" deep, but width covered the hole.
I placed vegi scraps on the bottom of the holes, filled them back in and
added some organic fertilizer

This year I came across and six or so holes that I could only shovel,
hack, swear past about 6 to 7" deep. I hit rocks of biblical
proportion.

Question, should I give up on these holes as they are too shallow? Or
since the plant's root did not go that deep, use them anyway?


Many thanks,
-T


What type of plants were in these ground pots and how wide were the holes
at the top? Most plants don't send very many roots deep into the soil.
They send tap roots deep into the soil too help anchor them but about 75%
of a plants roots grow across the soil surface to gather moisture.


Eggplant, zucchini, tomatillo

They are about 12 to 15" in diameter.

I did notice that the plants did not care for the surrounding
dirt. (I would not call it soil as it has all the nutritional
content of the moon.) It was like a 12" wide by 4" deep plug
of tiny roots.

Which bring up the question, am I placing the vegi scraps
too deep to be effective?

I would mix them into all the soil.

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Old 28-05-2017, 05:46 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 769
Default pot depth question

On 05/27/2017 08:52 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 5/27/2017 7:18 PM, T wrote:
On 05/27/2017 04:14 PM, wg_2002 wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:49:47 -0700, T wrote:

Hi All,

Last year I HACKED a bunch of ground pots into my so called dirt. I
tried to make them about 10 to 12" deep. The idea was that they would
not blow over and would have some slow drainage (takes over a day to
drain when I fill them with water). I then mix dirt, organic
fertilizer, and peat moss back into the hole, sans the rocks. I
worked.

This year I relocated the holes under the weeds and I found that the
old
growth that was there last year had not developed root more than
about 3
to 4" deep, but width covered the hole.
I placed vegi scraps on the bottom of the holes, filled them back in
and
added some organic fertilizer

This year I came across and six or so holes that I could only shovel,
hack, swear past about 6 to 7" deep. I hit rocks of biblical
proportion.

Question, should I give up on these holes as they are too shallow? Or
since the plant's root did not go that deep, use them anyway?


Many thanks,
-T

What type of plants were in these ground pots and how wide were the
holes
at the top? Most plants don't send very many roots deep into the soil.
They send tap roots deep into the soil too help anchor them but about
75%
of a plants roots grow across the soil surface to gather moisture.


Eggplant, zucchini, tomatillo

They are about 12 to 15" in diameter.

I did notice that the plants did not care for the surrounding
dirt. (I would not call it soil as it has all the nutritional
content of the moon.) It was like a 12" wide by 4" deep plug
of tiny roots.

Which bring up the question, am I placing the vegi scraps
too deep to be effective?

I would mix them into all the soil.


Will do, instead of on the bottom


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Old 28-05-2017, 01:06 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 2,733
Default pot depth question

T wrote:
....
This year I came across and six or so holes that I could
only shovel, hack, swear past about 6 to 7" deep. I hit
rocks of biblical proportion.

Question, should I give up on these holes as they are
too shallow? Or since the plant's root did not go that
deep, use them anyway?


root ball mass depends upon many factors
including what type of plant it is and how
it is watered.

i planted daikon radishes in various places
to help drive holes through the clay. some of
them i could not pull out. the deer ate the
tops off all of them last winter so they rotted
and provided drainage channels down the length
of their root.

good for sprouts too (bigger leaves than other
radishes). sold for a few $/lb of seeds at
the grain elevator.


songbird
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Old 28-05-2017, 01:12 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 2,733
Default pot depth question

T wrote:
....
I did notice that the plants did not care for the surrounding
dirt. (I would not call it soil as it has all the nutritional
content of the moon.) It was like a 12" wide by 4" deep plug
of tiny roots.

Which bring up the question, am I placing the vegi scraps
too deep to be effective?


do you have worms in any location when
you dig? are there native worms around
any place you can find some?

burying veggie scraps is better than
throwing them away any time even if the
plants may not get to them directly they
may still be getting some nutrients
indirectly (via fungi and/or worms).

feed some veggie scraps to a worm
bucket and then each planting time you
can mix the worm poo/pee in your soil
this will also have some effect through
time of getting a worm population going
if your worm species can survive your
soil/climate.

in order to get them to survive in a
pretty harsh climate they'll need places
to survive/hide from the hotter or
colder times.


songbird
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Old 29-05-2017, 02:16 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 769
Default pot depth question

On 05/28/2017 05:12 AM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
I did notice that the plants did not care for the surrounding
dirt. (I would not call it soil as it has all the nutritional
content of the moon.) It was like a 12" wide by 4" deep plug
of tiny roots.

Which bring up the question, am I placing the vegi scraps
too deep to be effective?


do you have worms in any location when
you dig? are there native worms around
any place you can find some?

burying veggie scraps is better than
throwing them away any time even if the
plants may not get to them directly they
may still be getting some nutrients
indirectly (via fungi and/or worms).

feed some veggie scraps to a worm
bucket and then each planting time you
can mix the worm poo/pee in your soil
this will also have some effect through
time of getting a worm population going
if your worm species can survive your
soil/climate.

in order to get them to survive in a
pretty harsh climate they'll need places
to survive/hide from the hotter or
colder times.


songbird


I just bag them up and freeze vegi scraps. Then dump
them frozen down the holes once a year. Some
day maybe I will get into composting. But
at the moment it is too much for me.

I only see a few worms here and there. None so
far this year.

Last year when I had to dig up a pot, I couldn't find
but one onion wrapper. That was only about a week.
So something is liking the stuff.
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Old 29-05-2017, 02:17 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default pot depth question

On 05/28/2017 05:06 AM, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
This year I came across and six or so holes that I could
only shovel, hack, swear past about 6 to 7" deep. I hit
rocks of biblical proportion.

Question, should I give up on these holes as they are
too shallow? Or since the plant's root did not go that
deep, use them anyway?


root ball mass depends upon many factors
including what type of plant it is and how
it is watered.

i planted daikon radishes in various places
to help drive holes through the clay. some of
them i could not pull out. the deer ate the
tops off all of them last winter so they rotted
and provided drainage channels down the length
of their root.

good for sprouts too (bigger leaves than other
radishes). sold for a few $/lb of seeds at
the grain elevator.


songbird


how deep do my holes need to be?
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Old 29-05-2017, 02:12 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default pot depth question

T wrote:
....
how deep do my holes need to be?


it depends upon the plant. as you've
found the roots of some don't go too
deep or too far.

radishes, if you are growing them for
sprouts? i just rough up the surface a
little and that is enough. the daikon
radishes make their own holes. that's
the idea behind growing them. i use the
plant to bore a hole through tough soil.

tomatoes are the largest in terms of
roots that i've noticed so far besides
the radishes. i don't even bother to
dig them up most of the time. i clip
off the top a few inches below the
surface and let the worms sort it out.


songbird


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Old 29-05-2017, 02:27 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default pot depth question

T wrote:
songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
I did notice that the plants did not care for the surrounding
dirt. (I would not call it soil as it has all the nutritional
content of the moon.) It was like a 12" wide by 4" deep plug
of tiny roots.

Which bring up the question, am I placing the vegi scraps
too deep to be effective?


do you have worms in any location when
you dig? are there native worms around
any place you can find some?

burying veggie scraps is better than
throwing them away any time even if the
plants may not get to them directly they
may still be getting some nutrients
indirectly (via fungi and/or worms).

feed some veggie scraps to a worm
bucket and then each planting time you
can mix the worm poo/pee in your soil
this will also have some effect through
time of getting a worm population going
if your worm species can survive your
soil/climate.

in order to get them to survive in a
pretty harsh climate they'll need places
to survive/hide from the hotter or
colder times.


songbird


I just bag them up and freeze vegi scraps. Then dump
them frozen down the holes once a year. Some
day maybe I will get into composting. But
at the moment it is too much for me.


other than the things that will regrow a
lot of veggie scraps can be used directly
without doing much at all. potato peels
are the ones i make sure are completely
dry, but everything else can be buried in
the garden soil without composting. consider
it slow composting.

the issue is that you don't want so much
that it ferments or gets hot when you've
planted something in there. really though,
if you only mix a few scraps in each
location what they are is a very temporary
water source, trace nutrients and some
organic material. if there are any worms
at all they'll find it.


I only see a few worms here and there. None so
far this year.


having some is better than none. at least
you aren't starting from none at all...
to encourage them poke your veggie scraps
in where you've seen them and make sure
there's some surface mulch to keep it
cooler/moist.

if the odd carrot top sprouts and grows
it's not a major issue IMO. around here
the rabbits keep anything like that trimmed.


Last year when I had to dig up a pot, I couldn't find
but one onion wrapper. That was only about a week.
So something is liking the stuff.


could be all sorts of things, mice, beetles...

do you have dung beetles there?


songbird
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Old 31-05-2017, 12:27 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default pot depth question

On 05/29/2017 06:27 AM, songbird wrote:
do you have dung beetles there?


Got some type of beetle and burrows in the dirt. Doesn't
look like any of the dumb beetles I see on nature shows.
And they don't seem to like my plants either, so I leave
them alone.

I got ants too. The larger brown and red ones. They
don't like my plants either, so I don't
bother them. This is weird. I can kneel down
in a bunch of them to work the dirt with my hands
and they scurry away and leave me alone. Nice ants.
Who would have thought.

I will consider the depth of the roots I am harvesting
when I consider the depth of the pots.

Thank you !



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