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  #181   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:13 PM
Frogleg
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:14:49 GMT, "FDR"
wrote:


"Frogleg" wrote

a quarterly newsletter is
distributed to 1,600 households just in advance of general meetings.
At the last meeting, the attendance was 32 people


It does absolutely no good
to take a 'victim' position when there are opportunities to change
things through participation.


So basically you are saying you do all these things to get your voice heard.
Why is it set-up that way anyway? No wonder people don't feel like voting.
Maybe they have lives and don't feel like having to join a fraternity and
getting initiated.


"All these things?!" How difficult is it to come to a 90-minute
meeting every 3 months? Or even once a year, when elections are held?
The purpose of the association is "to provide a means of friendly
association for the citizens of this organization, to preserve and
improve our neighborhood, and to communicate and work with surrounding
neighborhoods for the betterment of the area." If they expend so much
energy in complaining, why not spare a little to complain among a
group that may be able to change things? "To get your voice heard,"all
you have to do is SHOW UP and open your mouth. If, by "all these
things" you mean the Easter Egg Hunt and the bunny costume, this
*isn't* an initiation to a fraternity. It's an Easter Egg Hunt for
kids where one kind person dresses up in the suit so kids can have
their pictures taken on its lap. Neither attendance nor costume is
required. All activities and participation is voluntary. And the ones
that volunteer -- go to meetings, take an interest, bring up a topic
-- set the agenda.

If people "have lives" (and believe me, the board members are all very
busy people and all but one retiree with full-time jobs) and don't
"feel like" voting, then they have little cause to complain they're
being victimized by the decisions of others.

  #182   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Frogleg
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:57:41 GMT, figaro wrote:

I guess I just never understood why you should have to "come to the
meetings,volunteer to be on the board, do the paperwork for grants and
activities, and hide the eggs and dress up in the bunny costume for the
Easter Egg Hunt in the park," just to live in peace on your own property
without someone else telling you how they think you should live.


I was enumerating the many and varied things that the 'core' people
do, not a list of requirements. If you wish to "live and let live,"
you're surely free to do so. Perhaps others around you have contrary
ideas as to "how they think you should live." If you don't participate
in the process, you have no right to complain when the process runs
you over. It is my view that this particular neighborhood
association was formed at least in part to promote the interests of a
specific, small, 'elitist' group. However, as I mentioned, 1,600
households are eligible to take part. If they choose not to, they can
scarcely complain about speed bumps and yard sales. City Council
meetings are similarly ill-attended unless a particularly
controversial issue is being discussed. You can't depend on others
to safeguard your particular interests in the way you prefer.
  #183   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Janice
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:47:39 -0700, "Darwin Vander Stelt"
wrote:

....but you won't be able to repaint it red...


And they can then get you with one of those "run-down" laws. :/

"they" are ordinarily volunteer committees of your neighbors. Land use
ordinances almost always benefit some and anger others, but the key to
having the neighborhood you want is to participate. The squeaky wheels get
to decide what the neighborhood looks like. You get the impression from
reading some posts that some political gestapo imposes these ordinances from
the top, and we little people are getting screwed. The truth is that land
use planning and zoning is typically a very transparent process with lots of
hearings etc. and only a few people care enough or have the time or ambition
to participate. And all citizens must realize that the system is not
necessarily corrupt just because their position does not prevail. The
climate of "my adgenda at any price" including a willingness to lie to
advance the adgenda pervades our civic life and it may eventually ruin us.


There are many levels of garden and whatever they want to police
folks. There are county and city regulations that most folks are
totally unaware of, until some neighbor decides to complain about
something.

Here, Boise, Idaho, there are rules that state that no plants can be
planted where they act as screen anywhere other than at the perimeter
of the property, like a fence. And then only in the same manner as a
fence, otherwise. no taller than 3' if there aren't spaces between the
plants. 4' if there are spaces where people can see through.
Everywhere else, no higher than 1' above grade.

We also can't plant things within the easement that is the highway
district's. My area is easy to determine since there is a sidewalk,
There is a 5' area past the fence into my yard where we cannot plant
trees, or build anything permanent in that area, or put anything that
would be difficult to remove.

So that covers the planting of stuff.. you can plant individual plants
that do not form barriers .. so you can plant one tree that can grow
more than 1' above grade, but you can't plant several in a row as that
would constitute a screen.

Then there are the annoying little rules that are usually not actively
enforced in general areas, things like you can't have a trash can out
over 24 hours before or after pickup date. You're not supposed to
have your hose out if it's not in use, at all. Not supposed to have
any yard care items or trash cans where they can be seen in the front
or back yard. You're supposed to tote all of them back and put them
in a shed. You don't have a shed? Get one, but make sure it conforms
to the rules too.

Now, those are general city codes.. and there are more. However what
a lot of people seem to fail to find out or really understand at times
is that many subdivisions have their OWN covenants which can be and
usually ARE much stricter. They go so far as to tell you that you can
ONLY plant certain plants, and some of them want no variation. They
want all front yards to have the SAME plants and no others in them,
and if something should die, they'd want you to replace it with a
plant the same size as those in the yards around you. If you plant
something else, you'd be told to remove it, if you didn't then someone
else would remove it and you would be billed. You have to have ONLY
the prescribed mail boxes, yard decorations, plants, paint/rock colors
etc. Any variations and you will be chastised, told to fix it, if yo
don't it will be fixed and you will pay and if you don't then you will
be fined, or taken to court. You have to sign papers to this effect
to get in. If you forget what you signed they'll remind you. It's a
cookie cutter sub division and that conformity makes some people
happy, and secure an no one should buy into such a community if they
aren't of that mentality. Some people just don't read it or don't
take it seriously!

I really don't much like cookie cutter yards, and I annoy my neighbor
to the east because he's anal retentive and my yard makes his butt
pucker. ;-D I hope he loses sleep over it he's suck a jerk..not
merely *my* observation!

So, there are real "garden police" and there are those who merely
self-appoint! ;-)

Janice
  #184   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
FDR
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?


"Frogleg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:14:49 GMT, "FDR"
wrote:


"Frogleg" wrote

a quarterly newsletter is
distributed to 1,600 households just in advance of general meetings.
At the last meeting, the attendance was 32 people


It does absolutely no good
to take a 'victim' position when there are opportunities to change
things through participation.


So basically you are saying you do all these things to get your voice

heard.
Why is it set-up that way anyway? No wonder people don't feel like

voting.
Maybe they have lives and don't feel like having to join a fraternity and
getting initiated.


"All these things?!" How difficult is it to come to a 90-minute
meeting every 3 months?


Gee, maybe people have other things to do like spend time with their kids
after being at work 10 hours a day.

Or even once a year, when elections are held?
The purpose of the association is "to provide a means of friendly
association for the citizens of this organization, to preserve and
improve our neighborhood, and to communicate and work with surrounding
neighborhoods for the betterment of the area." If they expend so much
energy in complaining, why not spare a little to complain among a
group that may be able to change things?


Tell me something, if there was no group would the neighboorhood fall into
such disarray? Seems liek there are many areas, like the one I live in,
that work and look just fine without people having to have committees to
decide things.

"To get your voice heard,"all
you have to do is SHOW UP and open your mouth. If, by "all these
things" you mean the Easter Egg Hunt and the bunny costume, this
*isn't* an initiation to a fraternity. It's an Easter Egg Hunt for
kids where one kind person dresses up in the suit so kids can have
their pictures taken on its lap. Neither attendance nor costume is
required. All activities and participation is voluntary. And the ones
that volunteer -- go to meetings, take an interest, bring up a topic
-- set the agenda.


So those who don't "volunteer" get penalized. Thats quite a scam you guys
got going there. Not only do people have to pay taxes and a mortgage and
work 40+ hours a week and raise a family, but they have to dress in a bunny
suit. Wow, what a country!


If people "have lives" (and believe me, the board members are all very
busy people and all but one retiree with full-time jobs)


I bet these are the kind of people that enjoy power and control.

Geez, aren't you people happy enough that there's one government? Why do
you have to add another layer of beauracracy onto it?


  #185   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Frogleg
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:14:49 GMT, "FDR"
wrote:


"Frogleg" wrote

a quarterly newsletter is
distributed to 1,600 households just in advance of general meetings.
At the last meeting, the attendance was 32 people


It does absolutely no good
to take a 'victim' position when there are opportunities to change
things through participation.


So basically you are saying you do all these things to get your voice heard.
Why is it set-up that way anyway? No wonder people don't feel like voting.
Maybe they have lives and don't feel like having to join a fraternity and
getting initiated.


"All these things?!" How difficult is it to come to a 90-minute
meeting every 3 months? Or even once a year, when elections are held?
The purpose of the association is "to provide a means of friendly
association for the citizens of this organization, to preserve and
improve our neighborhood, and to communicate and work with surrounding
neighborhoods for the betterment of the area." If they expend so much
energy in complaining, why not spare a little to complain among a
group that may be able to change things? "To get your voice heard,"all
you have to do is SHOW UP and open your mouth. If, by "all these
things" you mean the Easter Egg Hunt and the bunny costume, this
*isn't* an initiation to a fraternity. It's an Easter Egg Hunt for
kids where one kind person dresses up in the suit so kids can have
their pictures taken on its lap. Neither attendance nor costume is
required. All activities and participation is voluntary. And the ones
that volunteer -- go to meetings, take an interest, bring up a topic
-- set the agenda.

If people "have lives" (and believe me, the board members are all very
busy people and all but one retiree with full-time jobs) and don't
"feel like" voting, then they have little cause to complain they're
being victimized by the decisions of others.


  #186   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Frogleg
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:57:41 GMT, figaro wrote:

I guess I just never understood why you should have to "come to the
meetings,volunteer to be on the board, do the paperwork for grants and
activities, and hide the eggs and dress up in the bunny costume for the
Easter Egg Hunt in the park," just to live in peace on your own property
without someone else telling you how they think you should live.


I was enumerating the many and varied things that the 'core' people
do, not a list of requirements. If you wish to "live and let live,"
you're surely free to do so. Perhaps others around you have contrary
ideas as to "how they think you should live." If you don't participate
in the process, you have no right to complain when the process runs
you over. It is my view that this particular neighborhood
association was formed at least in part to promote the interests of a
specific, small, 'elitist' group. However, as I mentioned, 1,600
households are eligible to take part. If they choose not to, they can
scarcely complain about speed bumps and yard sales. City Council
meetings are similarly ill-attended unless a particularly
controversial issue is being discussed. You can't depend on others
to safeguard your particular interests in the way you prefer.
  #187   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
FDR
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?


"Frogleg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:14:49 GMT, "FDR"
wrote:


"Frogleg" wrote

a quarterly newsletter is
distributed to 1,600 households just in advance of general meetings.
At the last meeting, the attendance was 32 people


It does absolutely no good
to take a 'victim' position when there are opportunities to change
things through participation.


So basically you are saying you do all these things to get your voice

heard.
Why is it set-up that way anyway? No wonder people don't feel like

voting.
Maybe they have lives and don't feel like having to join a fraternity and
getting initiated.


"All these things?!" How difficult is it to come to a 90-minute
meeting every 3 months?


Gee, maybe people have other things to do like spend time with their kids
after being at work 10 hours a day.

Or even once a year, when elections are held?
The purpose of the association is "to provide a means of friendly
association for the citizens of this organization, to preserve and
improve our neighborhood, and to communicate and work with surrounding
neighborhoods for the betterment of the area." If they expend so much
energy in complaining, why not spare a little to complain among a
group that may be able to change things?


Tell me something, if there was no group would the neighboorhood fall into
such disarray? Seems liek there are many areas, like the one I live in,
that work and look just fine without people having to have committees to
decide things.

"To get your voice heard,"all
you have to do is SHOW UP and open your mouth. If, by "all these
things" you mean the Easter Egg Hunt and the bunny costume, this
*isn't* an initiation to a fraternity. It's an Easter Egg Hunt for
kids where one kind person dresses up in the suit so kids can have
their pictures taken on its lap. Neither attendance nor costume is
required. All activities and participation is voluntary. And the ones
that volunteer -- go to meetings, take an interest, bring up a topic
-- set the agenda.


So those who don't "volunteer" get penalized. Thats quite a scam you guys
got going there. Not only do people have to pay taxes and a mortgage and
work 40+ hours a week and raise a family, but they have to dress in a bunny
suit. Wow, what a country!


If people "have lives" (and believe me, the board members are all very
busy people and all but one retiree with full-time jobs)


I bet these are the kind of people that enjoy power and control.

Geez, aren't you people happy enough that there's one government? Why do
you have to add another layer of beauracracy onto it?


  #188   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Glenna Rose
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?

writes:

"All these things?!" How difficult is it to come to a 90-minute
meeting every 3 months?


Gee, maybe people have other things to do like spend time with their kids
after being at work 10 hours a day.


It's very often the people *with* children who attend because they want
their community better for their children!

Interestingly enough, it was three childless people who went before
Council representing our neighborhood about the sex offender issue. Many
with children were just too busy, though they did attend the meetings to
decide what would be presented. The point is that, though they were busy
with family, they did take the time and effort to let the Board know how
they felt and the nature of their concerns. (FYI, all of the sex
offenders in the subject house were child molesters and the expressed
concerns to the Board were still minimal compared to our population.
That's truly apathy, especially considering it made the front page of our
local newspaper as well as television news on numerous occasions.)

Tell me something, if there was no group would the neighboorhood fall into
such disarray? Seems liek there are many areas, like the one I live in,
that work and look just fine without people having to have committees to
decide things.


Yup, it's *just fine* if you don't participate. Then one day you find out
an ordinance has been passed that affects the way *you* live and you get
really upset.

These "committees" to which you refer are your neighbors, not some
government entity. They care about your neighborhood, not a centralized
agenda. They matter. Support them or be one or you'll lose some of your
choices.

So those who don't "volunteer" get penalized. Thats quite a scam you guys
got going there. Not only do people have to pay taxes and a mortgage and
work 40+ hours a week and raise a family, but they have to dress in a
bunny
suit. Wow, what a country!


No one says you have to volunteer. But keep your mouth shut if you don't
speak up when the decisions are being made. If you don't pay attention,
you just might wake up one day and find the things you have been doing as
part of your daily life are now not legal. You like to garden in your own
yard? Then you better pay attention.

On the line of gardening, many people on this group put bones and meat
into compost piles and use humanure . . . that is absolutely illegal in
our community. We have very strict laws regarding that.

Four of the proposed ordinances would have severely limited gardening.
Fortunately, there were some of us who listened to what was going on and
spoke up, pointing out the practical aspects of daily life and how the
wording could adversely affect those with vegetable gardens. Even now,
with the changes, some aspects of my garden could be considered in
violation if the absolute letter of the ordinance were enforced but are
things most of us do and think nothing about it.


I bet these are the kind of people that enjoy power and control.


It's clear you have not been involved in a neighborhood association. Most
of them are begging for people to be involved and truly want to know what
everyone wants. It does not carry prestige or glory! We are lucky,
however, to have people say thank you.


Geez, aren't you people happy enough that there's one government? Why do
you have to add another layer of beauracracy onto it?


It's not another layer. Quite the contrary. It's more of a check on
government as well as balancing the "recommendations" of the monied and
powerful. Sadly, this comment of yours demonstrates that you are very
likely one of those who does not care what is going on until it limits
your own habits and then you complain. How truly sad.

No one is twisting your arm to get involved. Most of use who do bother
will say to keep your mouth shut about changes if you don't speak up. If
you don't want to be involved, don't. Also don't criticize those
responsible enough to get involved and have the ability to do so . . . and
make the time to do so. TIme, like money, is spent where you place your
priorities.

Freedom, like any other "muscle," will only stay healthy when it is used.
It does require participation. If we want freedom, we must use it or
demonstrate that we do care if we have it.

Glenna
Off to practice some freedom in her back yard!
(and glad her loganberry plants were not zoned
out of existence!)

  #189   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Glenna Rose
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?

writes:

"All these things?!" How difficult is it to come to a 90-minute
meeting every 3 months?


Gee, maybe people have other things to do like spend time with their kids
after being at work 10 hours a day.


It's very often the people *with* children who attend because they want
their community better for their children!

Interestingly enough, it was three childless people who went before
Council representing our neighborhood about the sex offender issue. Many
with children were just too busy, though they did attend the meetings to
decide what would be presented. The point is that, though they were busy
with family, they did take the time and effort to let the Board know how
they felt and the nature of their concerns. (FYI, all of the sex
offenders in the subject house were child molesters and the expressed
concerns to the Board were still minimal compared to our population.
That's truly apathy, especially considering it made the front page of our
local newspaper as well as television news on numerous occasions.)

Tell me something, if there was no group would the neighboorhood fall into
such disarray? Seems liek there are many areas, like the one I live in,
that work and look just fine without people having to have committees to
decide things.


Yup, it's *just fine* if you don't participate. Then one day you find out
an ordinance has been passed that affects the way *you* live and you get
really upset.

These "committees" to which you refer are your neighbors, not some
government entity. They care about your neighborhood, not a centralized
agenda. They matter. Support them or be one or you'll lose some of your
choices.

So those who don't "volunteer" get penalized. Thats quite a scam you guys
got going there. Not only do people have to pay taxes and a mortgage and
work 40+ hours a week and raise a family, but they have to dress in a
bunny
suit. Wow, what a country!


No one says you have to volunteer. But keep your mouth shut if you don't
speak up when the decisions are being made. If you don't pay attention,
you just might wake up one day and find the things you have been doing as
part of your daily life are now not legal. You like to garden in your own
yard? Then you better pay attention.

On the line of gardening, many people on this group put bones and meat
into compost piles and use humanure . . . that is absolutely illegal in
our community. We have very strict laws regarding that.

Four of the proposed ordinances would have severely limited gardening.
Fortunately, there were some of us who listened to what was going on and
spoke up, pointing out the practical aspects of daily life and how the
wording could adversely affect those with vegetable gardens. Even now,
with the changes, some aspects of my garden could be considered in
violation if the absolute letter of the ordinance were enforced but are
things most of us do and think nothing about it.


I bet these are the kind of people that enjoy power and control.


It's clear you have not been involved in a neighborhood association. Most
of them are begging for people to be involved and truly want to know what
everyone wants. It does not carry prestige or glory! We are lucky,
however, to have people say thank you.


Geez, aren't you people happy enough that there's one government? Why do
you have to add another layer of beauracracy onto it?


It's not another layer. Quite the contrary. It's more of a check on
government as well as balancing the "recommendations" of the monied and
powerful. Sadly, this comment of yours demonstrates that you are very
likely one of those who does not care what is going on until it limits
your own habits and then you complain. How truly sad.

No one is twisting your arm to get involved. Most of use who do bother
will say to keep your mouth shut about changes if you don't speak up. If
you don't want to be involved, don't. Also don't criticize those
responsible enough to get involved and have the ability to do so . . . and
make the time to do so. TIme, like money, is spent where you place your
priorities.

Freedom, like any other "muscle," will only stay healthy when it is used.
It does require participation. If we want freedom, we must use it or
demonstrate that we do care if we have it.

Glenna
Off to practice some freedom in her back yard!
(and glad her loganberry plants were not zoned
out of existence!)

  #190   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
FDR
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?


"Glenna Rose" wrote in message
news:[email protected] mug.org...
writes:

No one says you have to volunteer. But keep your mouth shut if you don't
speak up when the decisions are being made. If you don't pay attention,
you just might wake up one day and find the things you have been doing as
part of your daily life are now not legal. You like to garden in your own
yard? Then you better pay attention.


Do you read what you are writing and see how absurd that is?



On the line of gardening, many people on this group put bones and meat
into compost piles and use humanure . . . that is absolutely illegal in
our community. We have very strict laws regarding that.

Four of the proposed ordinances would have severely limited gardening.
Fortunately, there were some of us who listened to what was going on and
spoke up, pointing out the practical aspects of daily life and how the
wording could adversely affect those with vegetable gardens. Even now,
with the changes, some aspects of my garden could be considered in
violation if the absolute letter of the ordinance were enforced but are
things most of us do and think nothing about it.


I bet these are the kind of people that enjoy power and control.


It's clear you have not been involved in a neighborhood association. Most
of them are begging for people to be involved and truly want to know what
everyone wants. It does not carry prestige or glory! We are lucky,
however, to have people say thank you.



I bet they are begging because some "group" wields so much unwarranted
power.




  #191   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
FDR
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?


"Glenna Rose" wrote in message
news:[email protected] mug.org...
writes:

No one says you have to volunteer. But keep your mouth shut if you don't
speak up when the decisions are being made. If you don't pay attention,
you just might wake up one day and find the things you have been doing as
part of your daily life are now not legal. You like to garden in your own
yard? Then you better pay attention.


Do you read what you are writing and see how absurd that is?



On the line of gardening, many people on this group put bones and meat
into compost piles and use humanure . . . that is absolutely illegal in
our community. We have very strict laws regarding that.

Four of the proposed ordinances would have severely limited gardening.
Fortunately, there were some of us who listened to what was going on and
spoke up, pointing out the practical aspects of daily life and how the
wording could adversely affect those with vegetable gardens. Even now,
with the changes, some aspects of my garden could be considered in
violation if the absolute letter of the ordinance were enforced but are
things most of us do and think nothing about it.


I bet these are the kind of people that enjoy power and control.


It's clear you have not been involved in a neighborhood association. Most
of them are begging for people to be involved and truly want to know what
everyone wants. It does not carry prestige or glory! We are lucky,
however, to have people say thank you.



I bet they are begging because some "group" wields so much unwarranted
power.


  #192   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Gary Woods
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?

"FDR" wrote:

I bet they are begging because some "group" wields so much unwarranted
power.


All of this makes me enormously grateful that I do NOT live in a planned
community with a neighborhood association to tell me what to do.
I know a fellow in a suburb not far away that got an anonymous note in his
mailbox:
"In this neighborhood, we cut our lawns or FRIDAY!"

He moved, gesturing with a limited number of fingers as he left.

I'm in a "We don't care what you do as long as you don't frighten the
livestock" neighborhood. Suits me fine.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at www.albany.net/~gwoods
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
  #193   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Gary Woods
 
Posts: n/a
Default garden police gone wild?

"FDR" wrote:

I bet they are begging because some "group" wields so much unwarranted
power.


All of this makes me enormously grateful that I do NOT live in a planned
community with a neighborhood association to tell me what to do.
I know a fellow in a suburb not far away that got an anonymous note in his
mailbox:
"In this neighborhood, we cut our lawns or FRIDAY!"

He moved, gesturing with a limited number of fingers as he left.

I'm in a "We don't care what you do as long as you don't frighten the
livestock" neighborhood. Suits me fine.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at www.albany.net/~gwoods
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
  #194   Report Post  
Old 28-07-2019, 09:14 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2019
Posts: 1
Default garden police gone wild?

replying to Darwin Vander Stelt, behind the green mask wrote:
Not anymore.
Agenda 21 changed that, & if u r deep enuf into this subject to post what you
did, you must know it
If,
By some absurd chance you don't, or for those who want to know the truth about
what's being done to me them & theirs, I suggest you see what Rosa Kory has to
say about it.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/edible...wild-4294-.htm




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