But your "right" or "option" to join a HOA where the percentage of
minorities drops dramatically (to as low as zero percent ) doesn't look so
nifty, not if the day before you went house-hunting you naively believed
that discriminatory housing policies was illegal in all cases, only to
discover a half-dozen of the surrunding neighborhoods "coincidentally"
only sell to whites & a huge percentage of houses on the market aren't for
you -- & turns out there's very little you can do about it even if you
were brave enough to force the issue & forge a path amidst all those
honkies.


The other thing to thing about is this: would you want to live in a
place where you knoew everyone around didn't want you there, and was
watching your every move? Not to mention you were accused (in the
courts of public opinion) everything something was missing from
someone's house?

I am whilte, and while I have nothing against any other races, I don't
htink I would be comforatable moving in to an all-hispanic, or
al-black area. I wouldn't fit. everyone would alway look at, and
treat me like an outsider. I have seen the same thing here in the
town I live in. there are about 1000 people. all bt about 10 of them
are white.. anytime something is stolen, of missing, or broken, it's
always "those damn ni$$ers" that did it.... Mean while they keep to
themselves,

you may win in the courts, but whould it be worth it??




email: daveallyn at bwsys dot net
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!

For some inexplicable reasons, "Vox Humana"
wrote:

: HOA rules are on file in your county
:courthouse. You should ask to see a copy before you sign the planned unit
:development rider at closing.

I've lived in three communities with HOAs. For each
transaction, the HOA and/or the sellar had to give us a copy of the
association's rules so we had time to read through them before the
closing.



--
Wendy Chatley Green

On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:29:59 -0400, "Julia Green"
wrote:

Those are HOAs for the entire *county of Montgomery.


How does that not legitimize the contention that there are hundreds in
a local?

"Wendy Chatley Green" wrote in message
...
For some inexplicable reasons, "Vox Humana"
wrote:

: HOA rules are on file in your county
:courthouse. You should ask to see a copy before you sign the planned
unit
:development rider at closing.

I've lived in three communities with HOAs. For each
transaction, the HOA and/or the sellar had to give us a copy of the
association's rules so we had time to read through them before the
closing.

That doesn't seem to be a equipment in Ohio. You do have to sign a Planned
Unit Development rider at closing. As with any legal document, you should
know what you are signing and ask questions. Giving the buyer the rules is
a good idea that could keep you out of hot water later should the buyer
claim that you failed to disclose that existence of a HOA.

We had a case in our development where a home buyer drove a commercial
truck. He asked the realtor if it was OK to park the truck in the driveway
because it wouldn't fit through the garage door opening. The realtor,
Coldwell Banker, assured him, in writing, that he could park the truck in
the driveway. Unfortunately not only was it against the covenants and
restrictions, but also against township zoning regulations. Coldwell Banker
had to get permission from the association to modify the garage door opening
to make it taller and then install a larger door after the homeowner
threatened litigation. Strangely, after all the fuss, the owner still
refused to park in the garage. Despite the fact that he knew that the
association had rules that were enforceable, he pushed the issue. The
association got a court order that prevented him from parking in the
driveway except for five hours a month to allow him to wash the truck. If
he violates the order, not only can he be fined by the association, but he
would violating a court order.

I believe Vox had said that there were hundreds in one *neighborhood.
That's an exaggeration.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:29:59 -0400, "Julia Green"
wrote:

Those are HOAs for the entire *county of Montgomery.


How does that not legitimize the contention that there are hundreds in
a local?

"Julia Green" wrote in message
...
I believe Vox had said that there were hundreds in one *neighborhood.
That's an exaggeration.

No. Technically, someone else said that there were hundreds in a community.
I pointed out that there were over 800 in Montgomery county. Maybe that
county is huge and 800 HOAs are so dispersed that they wouldn't be very
close to each other. I don't know. I doubt that there are 800 towns in my
county. I would suspect that the 800 associations are clustered and not
evenly dispersed. There are over 40 million people living in about 200,000
communities governed by HOAs. From that standpoint, Montgomery County, MD
would have a disproportionate number of these communities as compared with
the nation as a whole.

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
.. .

No. Technically, someone else said that there were hundreds in a
community.
I pointed out that there were over 800 in Montgomery county. Maybe that
county is huge and 800 HOAs are so dispersed that they wouldn't be very
close to each other. I don't know. I doubt that there are 800 towns in
my
county. I would suspect that the 800 associations are clustered and not
evenly dispersed. There are over 40 million people living in about
200,000
communities governed by HOAs. From that standpoint, Montgomery County, MD
would have a disproportionate number of these communities as compared with
the nation as a whole.

Oh, I thought you were the one who talked about hundreds of HOAs in one
community or neighborhood. I was mistaken.

I don't know if Montgomery Co. has a disproportionate number of HOAs or not.
But Montgomery Village alone probably accounts for about 75 of them, at
least. Each little neighborhood in M.V. has its own little HOA and there
are a ton of little neighborhoods in M.V.

In article , "Vox Humana"
wrote:

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , Tom J
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 11:09:43 -0400, Ann wrote:

Tom J expounded:


This entire thread remains clueless except for some insight by Vox....

Sorry, but I find Vox to be as rabid as Paghat on this one.


OK Ann, but living in a communality with hundreds of HOA's I see
none of the rantings validated.

Some people don't HAVE to care, so never even bother to look. You don't
see what you couldn't care less about.

Tell me what single community has HUNDREDS of HOAs while you're at it. By
HUNDREDS you mean 200 HOAs right in your neighborhood? Three or four
hundred? Six hundred? Should be easy for you to name 10% of them then, or
grab your Yellow Pages & list the ones that start with "S" -- that should
be a good 20 out of 200 right there.

Someone mentioned that they lived in an area called Montgomery Village that
had a lot of HOAs. If you go to the Montgomery County HOA page you will see
a list of over 800 HOA listed.
http://www.communitiesonline.org/sta...ontgomery/hoa/

The majority of that page lists single-building condo associations, &
lists them randomly throughout Virginia, Washington D.C., & Maryland, &
includes unincorporated civic associations that are not HOAs. Even if
these HAD all been only from Montgomery County (as you may have imagined
since all you looked at was a Google header) that's NOT a single
community, it's a COUNTY'S worth of cities & towns. Makes me wonder if
this depth of dishonesty on your part is intentional or something deeply
ingrained & awful in you forces you against your will to be dishonest!

But lets imagine your horrifying idea of utopia were true & a single
community had 800 HOA-run neighborhoods -- or even just the 200 the
previous liar made up on the spur of the moment. We'll even toss-in the
single-building condo associations to help you boost your numbers, &
though that's cheating, we have to accept that cheating is your method &
you might get away with it here & there. Can't include those civic
neighborhood associations, though, as they tend to do nicer stuff than
HOAs ever do.

If your dream is true, then SOMEwhere there are 200 neighborhoods &/or
incoporation-regulated condos in a single community, with people of no
conscience (as best-case) or even outright racists, happily empowered by a
method of incorporation that permits them to legally take over other
peoples' property rights & work around Civil Rights protections, resulting
INEVITABLY in such outrages as I documented in Marin County against a tiny
handful of Orthodox Jews & in San Clemente against the only Asian woman
with a house inside the HOA district harrassed for ten years before the
law stepped in. 200 to 800 neighborhoods & incorporated condos in one
town, eh? All of which at LEAST have the OPTION of being racist,
heterosexist, agist, & antisemitic, & generally function with one or more
category within that option very much activated. Minorities shopping for
homes, then, are expected to write off as off-bounds THAT many
communities??

Clearly you people have got to be stopped!

For fortunately you don't control quite such a big percentage of the
housing marketplace. And unfortunately for your dream, though it's been a
long while coming, a few state, federal, & county government agences ARE
finally beginning to undermine these "special" qualities of homeowner
associations. I expect additional dragged-out court cases & state-by-state
legislation will in the future further limit your scary "options" to
decide the age, race, sexual orientation, or religion of people permitted
to buy a home in incorporated neighborhoods. Sure, the option to
orchestrate racist housing at any time you so elect does still exist
today. But in increasing numbers of regions, it's getting harder rather
than easier to suffer no legal repurcussions, even if in all cases the
governmental approach has had to be "novel" from the hate-crime angle &
foreclosure-angle & banned-funding angle & so on. And even the most overt
racists among you HOArs may decide tolerance is after all a better idea
than continuously having the HOA dues raised to cover the court costs of
preserving that one & only thing which inspired the HOA movement in the
first place.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"john wardle" wrote:

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , Rico
wrote:

[CLIPPED, some EXCELLENT stuff for a change! -- & what a relief to see
that not EVERYone is a head-in-hole Vox type! I will keep unclipped
only
what I reply to, but anyone of intelligence will want to have read it
all.]

I've never heard of a Christian housing district. Are you sure of
your
facts?

The vast majority of Homeowner Associations automatically reject Jews.
Saint Ole's original wordings & recommendations for how to form a
neighborhood corporation free of anyone but Christian whites even
prohibited Hindus, as if that were any great worry in San Clemente.

And how do they know someone is a jew? Are they checking some part of
the
anatomy? The would be the first clue to not move in......



The racist, christian, conspirasy-theory organization "Retaking
America"
which is worried about the One World Government's desire to force
integration of God's people with mud people, today still promotes
Homeowner Associations as a key weapon for the continuing & express
purpose of keeping neighborhoods exclusively white & "their kind" of
christian.

Your bigotry is showing....

I'm just a little surprised you'd define disliking an avowedly racist
movement (which supports HOAs because HOAs is a short-cut to preserving
their right to enforce discrimination in an entire neighborhood) as itself
bigotted. Okay, i LOVE bigots, I hope my neighborhood FILLS UP with
bigots. If I refuse to attend their queer-bashing party or don't take my
turn burning crosses on a black family's lawn, am I still a bigot not to
help out?

I know, I know, you were being satiric, & you don't share Retaking
AMerica's conviction that Black & Jewish Mud People, assisted by the
United Nations, are taking over America. But the creepier sorts
participating in this thread are going to think you weren't pretending &
that you're a complete dunderhead like themselves!

However, when Retaking America came out against "evil" King Bush II,
Master of the One World Order, for waging war because of pretend-weopons
of destruction, I had this creepy feeling that I agreed with them about
something -- as creepy as the VERY LAST TIME i ever showed up to picket
against an offensive film & found that that Holy Rollers were also
picketing it. Inducing me to buy a ticket. The film turned out to be okay.

-paghat the ratgirl

I may be willing to re-think my position on your apparent bigotry...But this
is just way too funny!

As a former employee of the federal government, I must tell you that I felt
duty bound after reading this to notify authorities. You should hear the
black helicopters overhead any minute now.....

In article , "Dave Allyn"
(Dave Allyn) wrote:

But your "right" or "option" to join a HOA where the percentage of
minorities drops dramatically (to as low as zero percent ) doesn't look so
nifty, not if the day before you went house-hunting you naively believed
that discriminatory housing policies was illegal in all cases, only to
discover a half-dozen of the surrunding neighborhoods "coincidentally"
only sell to whites & a huge percentage of houses on the market aren't for
you -- & turns out there's very little you can do about it even if you
were brave enough to force the issue & forge a path amidst all those
honkies.


The other thing to thing about is this: would you want to live in a
place where you knoew everyone around didn't want you there, and was
watching your every move? Not to mention you were accused (in the
courts of public opinion) everything something was missing from
someone's house?

The people who HAVE forged inroads where they're unwanted I consider
brave, in some cases heroic, & for far too many it cost them their lives.
I couldn't do it either.

I am whilte, and while I have nothing against any other races, I don't
htink I would be comforatable moving in to an all-hispanic, or
al-black area.

I've lived in predominantly black & asian neighborhoods & loved these
communities. I've visited lilywhite neighborhoods & felt very
uncomfortable, & my discomfort was rarely baseless. I think what you
outline is the result of unfamiliarity & you give evidence of the harm
segregation does even to someone such as yourself, that you find yourself
having to admit discomfort with races you know you have no need to
despise.

I wouldn't fit. everyone would alway look at, and
treat me like an outsider. I have seen the same thing here in the
town I live in. there are about 1000 people. all bt about 10 of them
are white.. anytime something is stolen, of missing, or broken, it's
always "those damn ni$$ers" that did it.... Mean while they keep to
themselves,

That's exactly the sort of thing you should NOT be comfortable around.
That you recognize these honkies' racism, but are nevertheless more
comfortable with them, is a terrible thing for your own growth & humanity.
Though I can certainly imagine that such a small town might not provide
you as many options as would be more humanly rewarding.

You seem to be saying you're comfortable in the manner of a chameleon.
Because your skin's the same color as that of racists, you're not at risk.
Personally that wouldn't comfort me. I recognize my "white privilege" in
this regard, & know to some degree I benefit in certain ways that black
skin never can. But it still strikes me as creepy rather than
comfortable.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

paghat wrote:

[huge snip]

Clearly you people have got to be stopped!
[snipped a *bunch* more]

"You people"? Isn't that a code word for exactly the same kind of
segregation you're ranting about?

Wondering what Pag's real agenda is,
Bob

In article , "Vox Humana"
wrote:

"Julia Green" wrote in message
...
I believe Vox had said that there were hundreds in one *neighborhood.
That's an exaggeration.

No. Technically, someone else said that there were hundreds in a community.
I pointed out that there were over 800 in Montgomery county. Maybe that
county is huge and 800 HOAs are so dispersed that they wouldn't be very
close to each other. I don't know. I doubt that there are 800 towns in my
county. I would suspect that the 800 associations are clustered and not
evenly dispersed. There are over 40 million people living in about 200,000
communities governed by HOAs. From that standpoint, Montgomery County, MD
would have a disproportionate number of these communities as compared with
the nation as a whole.

Interesting that your method of argument is to tell a lie, have the lie
corrected, then tell it again. I've noticed a lot of rightwingers do that
-- just keep repeating the same lie over & over & over no matter how often
it is corrected.

But once mo That list you gave included HOAs in Virginia, Washington
DC, & Maryland. It included civic associations that are not HOAs, & it
included single-building condominium HOAs that are not neigbhoroods.

If such a density of HOA neighborhoods exists in a single community
anywhere in the United States, you came nowhere close to proving it by
repeating your whopper here.

But if it IS true somewhere, that would be absolutely horrifying to any
decent human being, pleasing though it may be for you.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

it was a metal fence and they dont consider a metal fence to be decorative. Ingrid

"Vox Humana" wrote:


wrote in message
...
exactly my point!!!!! there is NO PERMIT REQUIRED FOR A DECORATIVE FENCE.
right.
thats what it was, less than 3' in height and 50% open and when the vines
grew up it,
decorative.
what it says is a fence on the lot line (all around the yard) DOES NOT
REQUIRE A
PERMIT when it is less than 3 feet high and "open".

What was reason given when you were ordered to remove the fence?




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

In article , zxcvbob
wrote:

paghat wrote:

[huge snip]

Clearly you people have got to be stopped!
[snipped a *bunch* more]

"You people"? Isn't that a code word for exactly the same kind of
segregation you're ranting about?

Wondering what Pag's real agenda is,
Bob

If you're one of those loons worried I'm out to see the demise of all
white people, stop worryin', that wouldn't be so good for my white ass
either.

-paghat

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

"Julia Green" wrote in message
...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
.. .

No. Technically, someone else said that there were hundreds in a
community.
I pointed out that there were over 800 in Montgomery county. Maybe that
county is huge and 800 HOAs are so dispersed that they wouldn't be very
close to each other. I don't know. I doubt that there are 800 towns in
my
county. I would suspect that the 800 associations are clustered and not
evenly dispersed. There are over 40 million people living in about
200,000
communities governed by HOAs. From that standpoint, Montgomery County,
MD
would have a disproportionate number of these communities as compared
with
the nation as a whole.

Oh, I thought you were the one who talked about hundreds of HOAs in one
community or neighborhood. I was mistaken.

I don't know if Montgomery Co. has a disproportionate number of HOAs or
not.
But Montgomery Village alone probably accounts for about 75 of them, at
least. Each little neighborhood in M.V. has its own little HOA and there
are a ton of little neighborhoods in M.V.

I see that here, but not to the extent that is in a highly developed area
like the DC suburbs.