Lowering PH
 

I have one row of tomatoes that is in slightly sweet soil.
what should I use to lower the PH?
--

Squire

Lowering PH
 

in article , tippy1 at wrote
on 5/30/03 12:39 PM:

I have one row of tomatoes that is in slightly sweet soil.
what should I use to lower the PH?

I presume by *sweet* you mean alkaline--not sugary.

I use gypsum or gypsite (a brand name for a mixture of sulfur and gypsum),
You can also get agricultural sulfur. Phosphoric acid will also do the job
and provide phosphorous as well. Ammonium sulfate or ammonium nitrate will
provide fixed nitrogen as well as acidity.

If you do not understand chemistry well enough to figure it out for
yourself, get someone who knows to help. It is not, as is said, rocket
science.

Bill

Lowering PH
 

In article ,
Repeating Decimal Bill wrote:

in article , tippy1 at wrote
on 5/30/03 12:39 PM:

I have one row of tomatoes that is in slightly sweet soil.
what should I use to lower the PH?

I presume by *sweet* you mean alkaline--not sugary.

I use gypsum or gypsite (a brand name for a mixture of sulfur and gypsum),
You can also get agricultural sulfur. Phosphoric acid will also do the job
and provide phosphorous as well. Ammonium sulfate or ammonium nitrate will
provide fixed nitrogen as well as acidity.

If you do not understand chemistry well enough to figure it out for
yourself, get someone who knows to help. It is not, as is said, rocket
science.


Pay no attention to the cranky, wannabe chemist Bill, Tippy.

To actually lower the soil PH thereby making it more acid, as noted in
your subject line, leaf mulch/mold and sawdust are good additives.
Sulphur will also get the PH down. Ask for it at your local nursery and
follow the directions on the package.

Lowering PH
 

in article ,
Phaedrine Stonebridge at wrote on 8/11/03
8:55 PM:

Pay no attention to the cranky, wannabe chemist Bill, Tippy.

What did I suggest that was incorrect? Is it only my refusal to be a green
quack?

Bill

Lowering PH
 

In article ,
Repeating Decimal wrote:

in article ,
Phaedrine Stonebridge at wrote on 8/11/03
8:55 PM:

Pay no attention to the cranky, wannabe chemist Bill, Tippy.

What did I suggest that was incorrect? Is it only my refusal to be a green
quack?

Bill



She asked a simple, line-sentence question so the rocket science
lecture......

"If you do not understand chemistry well enough to figure it out for
yourself, get someone who knows to help. It is not, as is said, rocket
science."

....... was way out of line. I was telling her to ignore your arrogant
crankiness in case she was new and decided to never come back after
being treated so rudely.

As far as not being a "green quack", I have no idea what you are talking
about. That others have taken offense at your attitude hardly surprises
me.

Lowering PH
 

Repeating Decimal wrote:

in article
,
Phaedrine Stonebridge at wrote on 8/11/03
8:55 PM:

Pay no attention to the cranky, wannabe chemist Bill, Tippy.

What did I suggest that was incorrect? Is it only my refusal to be a green
quack?

Bill

From one Bill to another:
I can do the chemistry just fine. However, I can also do the che
mistry 'nearly enough' with organic materials. Because organic materials a
id the tilth of my soil and give the microbial activity a boost, I choose or
ganic. Could you explain why, since they do not help the tilth of your s
oil or boost your microbial activity, you continue to espouse synthetic ch
emical means of gardening?

Bill
--
Zone 5b (Detroit, MI)
I do not post my address to news groups.

Lowering PH
 

in article , Noydb at
wrote on 8/12/03 10:08 PM:

Repeating Decimal wrote:

in article
,
Phaedrine Stonebridge at wrote on 8/11/03
8:55 PM:

Pay no attention to the cranky, wannabe chemist Bill, Tippy.

What did I suggest that was incorrect? Is it only my refusal to be a green
quack?

Bill

From one Bill to another:
I can do the chemistry just fine. However, I can also do the che
mistry 'nearly enough' with organic materials. Because organic materials a
id the tilth of my soil and give the microbial activity a boost, I choose or
ganic. Could you explain why, since they do not help the tilth of your s
oil or boost your microbial activity, you continue to espouse synthetic ch
emical means of gardening?

Bill
I have nothing against the so called "organic" methods espoused by you or
chemically deprived Phaedrine Stonebridge. I have objection to raising these
methods to a level of religious zeal.

For me, it is much easier to use so called chemicals. I do not have the
strength or time to get horse manure and roto-till it into my adobe hardpan.
I do what I can. I guess according to some people there are no chemicals in
manure or compost.

I like hydroponics. Is it less green for the world as to use simple
inorganic chemicals than to use oodles of ever more difficult to get water?

I just picked my first hydroponicly grown banana squash. It was absolutely
delicious. I will post more on the subject. I would stack that squash
against any "organically" grown squash.

Bill

Lowering PH
 

In article ,
Repeating Decimal wrote:

chemically deprived Phaedrine Stonebridge.


I challenge you to find a single instance where I gave anyone here a
hard time about the use of ANY garden treatment including chemicals.

You won't find it because I never said any such thing.

Lowering PH
 

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:52:53 GMT, Repeating Decimal
wrote:

I like hydroponics. Is it less green for the world as to use simple
inorganic chemicals than to use oodles of ever more difficult to get water?
-----
Hydroponics is very interesting as I've worked with tomatoes in
climate controlled greenhouses. It's VERY productive, but still quite
expensive; or at least it is in Tucson as water is costly as are our
summer season electricity rates for the evaporative cooling fans.

But we do have great levels of natural sunshine which many parts of
the world can't match!


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Lowering PH
 

Repeating Decimal wrote:

I like hydroponics. Is it less green for the world as to use simple
inorganic chemicals than to use oodles of ever more difficult to get
water?

The water cycle works just as well as it always has. There is still plenty
of water. The difference is that now we have to filter the human manure,
pesticides and industrial by-products out of it before we can drink it
again. Ask the citizens of India what they think of the idea of using
Lindane in their fields just now.

My compost does not, so nearly as I can tell, contribute to the befouling of
our water supplies. Indeed, since it can hold up to 900% of its weight in
water (vs 2% for sand, 20% for clay), it can be argued that it represents a
major conservation of it. A heavily composted soil retains water better
than a strictly mineral soil and makes nutrients much more readily
available to the plants than a mineral soil. I have added nothing to my
soil this year. Nothing, that is, except compost as a mulch and water as
needed. It is mid-August and I have one bed that has been hose watered only
twice. The others recieve weep irrigation (at a rate of about 1 pt. per
foot per day) using Irrigro tyvek lines (now on their second year). That's
actually more water than I think they need, but it's difficult to adjust
the pressure to less since the city supply line pressure fluctuates quite a
bit. I think they could get by on about 1/2 the amount they are getting.

Grow your garden anyway you want. I don't consider myself 'chemically
deprived'. If anything, it is the users of chemicals who are deprived. I'll
match my yields and flavor against anyones and then we can compare the
costs of production per unit. My wallet doesn't feel deprived at all.

Adobe succombs to post-hole composting in which a series of post holes are
power augured and then backfilled with compostable material (horse manure
is only one of a long list of possible materials: see
http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/humanure.html ). When the holes are nearly
full, they are capped with adobe, making, over time, a raised bed that is
actually quite fertile and parsimonious of water.

Organic gardening in the desert requires more thought. Not more labor. I
have never waded through horse manure while following a rototiller and I
wouldn't suggest that anyone else do it, either. If you live in horse
country, someone has an augur to lend / rent. Put 6" dia. holes on 12"
spacings (offset the rows for a 12" diagonal spacing) as deep as you can
get the augur to go. The soil critters will drill through the adobe to get
from one posthole to another ... and leave their tunnels behind. You could
'seed' the first hole or two with a handful of local earthworms if you
don't think you have enough in your own soil.

Bill
--
Zone 5b (Detroit, MI)
I do not post my address to news groups.

Lowering PH
 

in article , Noydb at
wrote on 8/15/03 5:36 PM:

Repeating Decimal wrote:

I like hydroponics. Is it less green for the world as to use simple
inorganic chemicals than to use oodles of ever more difficult to get
water?

The water cycle works just as well as it always has. There is still plenty
of water. The difference is that now we have to filter the human manure,
pesticides and industrial by-products out of it before we can drink it
again. Ask the citizens of India what they think of the idea of using
Lindane in their fields just now.

So what? I do not have riperian rights to any

My compost does not, so nearly as I can tell, contribute to the befouling of
our water supplies. Indeed, since it can hold up to 900% of its weight in
water (vs 2% for sand, 20% for clay), it can be argued that it represents a
major conservation of it. A heavily composted soil retains water better
than a strictly mineral soil and makes nutrients much more readily
available to the plants than a mineral soil. I have added nothing to my
soil this year. Nothing, that is, except compost as a mulch and water as
needed. It is mid-August and I have one bed that has been hose watered only
twice. The others recieve weep irrigation (at a rate of about 1 pt. per
foot per day) using Irrigro tyvek lines (now on their second year). That's
actually more water than I think they need, but it's difficult to adjust
the pressure to less since the city supply line pressure fluctuates quite a
bit. I think they could get by on about 1/2 the amount they are getting.

My hydroponic nutrient solution also do not contribute pollution. True, I
live near the ocean where the minerals can seep. But that is not the
pollution that deserves the complaint. After the use to grow plants, the
waste solution is applied to soil plants. The major loss of water is plant
transpiration and evaporation.

Grow your garden anyway you want. I don't consider myself 'chemically
deprived'. If anything, it is the users of chemicals who are deprived. I'll
match my yields and flavor against anyones and then we can compare the
costs of production per unit. My wallet doesn't feel deprived at all.

Adobe succombs to post-hole composting in which a series of post holes are
power augured and then backfilled with compostable material (horse manure
is only one of a long list of possible materials: see
http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/humanure.html ). When the holes are nearly
full, they are capped with adobe, making, over time, a raised bed that is
actually quite fertile and parsimonious of water.

The problem is that I do not want to rent a horse or haul horse tailings in
my vehicle. I have composted tree trimmings and have no complaint against
it.

Organic gardening in the desert requires more thought. Not more labor. I
have never waded through horse manure while following a rototiller and I
wouldn't suggest that anyone else do it, either. If you live in horse
country, someone has an augur to lend / rent. Put 6" dia. holes on 12"
spacings (offset the rows for a 12" diagonal spacing) as deep as you can
get the augur to go. The soil critters will drill through the adobe to get
from one posthole to another ... and leave their tunnels behind. You could
'seed' the first hole or two with a handful of local earthworms if you
don't think you have enough in your own soil.

I have indeed thought of drilling about two feet through the adobe but
haven't done so. Hydroponics is just fine--for me.


Bill^2