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Old 15-06-2003, 05:44 PM
Rona Yuthasastrakosol
 
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Default basil and cilantro

So, I transplanted the basil and cilantro plants in larger planters. Now
half of them are dead. I did water them but the weather had been strange
here. Hot and sunny one day, rainy the next, so it is possible the soil was
very dry for at least a day, or overwatered. How wet do these plants need
to be? I read the little paper I got with them, and it just said to keep
the soil moist.

Also, I'm wondering if the round-up I used on some weeds nearby had a
negative effect on the plants. I did not spray the round-up on the plants
or on an area touching the planters (but it was one or two feet away) and
there was no wind to speak of, which is why I used it at that time (I
wouldn't have if it had been windy, since I would have been afraid of the
wind carrying the round-up to my new babies). How much does that round-up
stuff travel? Even if there were no wind, could it have hit my plants some
other way?

Really, I'm not a troll. I'm just a true neophyte at any kind of gardening,
plus it seems I may not have much common sense about it. I'm always willing
to learn! Well, at least my tomatoes are still alive!

rona

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and they will
**** upon your computer."
--Bruce Graham


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Old 16-06-2003, 05:20 AM
Noydb
 
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Default basil and cilantro

Rona Yuthasastrakosol wrote:

So, I transplanted the basil and cilantro plants in larger planters. Now
half of them are dead. I did water them but the weather had been strange
here. Hot and sunny one day, rainy the next, so it is possible the soil
was
very dry for at least a day, or overwatered. How wet do these plants need
to be? I read the little paper I got with them, and it just said to keep
the soil moist.


It is possible you drowned them with too much water, too little drainage.
When you replant, make certain there is a way for excess water to get out
the bottom of the pot.


Also, I'm wondering if the round-up I used on some weeds nearby had a
negative effect on the plants. I did not spray the round-up on the plants
or on an area touching the planters (but it was one or two feet away) and
there was no wind to speak of, which is why I used it at that time (I
wouldn't have if it had been windy, since I would have been afraid of the
wind carrying the round-up to my new babies). How much does that round-up
stuff travel? Even if there were no wind, could it have hit my plants
some other way?


A foot or two isn't much leeway. It is also possible you assasinated them
with Roundup. Tiny droplets can travel a long ways and, if the plant was as
stressed as you say, it would not have taken much to kill it.


Really, I'm not a troll. I'm just a true neophyte at any kind of
gardening,
plus it seems I may not have much common sense about it. I'm always
willing
to learn! Well, at least my tomatoes are still alive!

rona



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Old 16-06-2003, 05:04 PM
Joanne
 
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Default basil and cilantro

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" wrote in message ...
So, I transplanted the basil and cilantro plants in larger planters. Now
half of them are dead. I did water them but the weather had been strange
here. Hot and sunny one day, rainy the next, so it is possible the soil was
very dry for at least a day, or overwatered. How wet do these plants need
to be? I read the little paper I got with them, and it just said to keep
the soil moist.


Snip

rona



I can't advise you about Roundup as I have an organic garden, so that
problem is one I don't have to contend with. I can tell you that I
also lost 90% of my initial basil planting due to an unexpectedly
cool, wet and windy spell. They just seemed to be overwhelmed by the
weather at such a young age and who can blame them. I find young
cilantro plants to be even more delicate and did not put mine out
until last week.

All I can advise you to do is buy more plants and try again, hopefully
the weather will co-operate, oh, and cilantro likes a bit of shade.

A final piece of advice; even the most experienced gardener has
failures or perplexing questions every year (this newsgroups existance
is proof of that), let experience be your teacher. Each year you will
be both wiser and have more questions, it's a vicious circle but a
fascinating one!

Hope that helps.

jcm
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Old 16-06-2003, 05:04 PM
Frogleg
 
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Default basil and cilantro

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:38:59 -0500, "Rona Yuthasastrakosol"
wrote:

So, I transplanted the basil and cilantro plants in larger planters. Now
half of them are dead. I did water them but the weather had been strange
here. Hot and sunny one day, rainy the next, so it is possible the soil was
very dry for at least a day, or overwatered. How wet do these plants need
to be? I read the little paper I got with them, and it just said to keep
the soil moist.


Yeah. How moist is "moist"? Roughly, it means growing in soil that
has enough organic material to prevent either extremely rapid drying
out, or water standing in a pot or on the ground. Directions for
growing many plants say "does not like to be transplanted." I wouldn't
think basil was one of these, as it's often sold in little 6-packs and
seems to transplant well. I always sow cilantro seed where I plan the
plants to live, however. The good news is that cilantro is *very* easy
to grow from seed. Repeated plantings are suggested to keep a
reasonable supply going. You don't even need to buy seed packets --
just find a jar of coriander seed and plant some.

Also, I'm wondering if the round-up I used on some weeds nearby had a
negative effect on the plants. I did not spray the round-up on the plants
or on an area touching the planters (but it was one or two feet away) and
there was no wind to speak of, which is why I used it at that time (I
wouldn't have if it had been windy, since I would have been afraid of the
wind carrying the round-up to my new babies). How much does that round-up
stuff travel? Even if there were no wind, could it have hit my plants some
other way?


How far does a sneeze travel? Roundup is a *very* effective herbicide.
1 or 2 feet away from new little plants is pretty close.. Roundup does
its work on exposed foliage. It decays quickly (within a 2-4 days) and
has no effect on subsequent planting in the treated area. Very
meticulous gardeners wanting to kill specific plants/weeds *paint* it
on with a brush or sponge to avoid the effect of aerosol spraying.
  #5   Report Post  
Old 20-06-2003, 07:44 AM
Rona Yuthasastrakosol
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro



"Joanne" wrote in message
om...

I can't advise you about Roundup as I have an organic garden, so that
problem is one I don't have to contend with. I can tell you that I
also lost 90% of my initial basil planting due to an unexpectedly
cool, wet and windy spell. They just seemed to be overwhelmed by the
weather at such a young age and who can blame them. I find young
cilantro plants to be even more delicate and did not put mine out
until last week.


I'm going to buy new basil plants (incidently, this was Thai basil, not
Italian basil, in case that makes a difference) and start all over again.
This time I'll keep them in their starter pots until they are very healthy,
then I'll transplant them. I'll keep them inside for a bit, too. I had
thought they were healthy, since they were quite plentiful. But they were
only ~5 inches high so I guess that may have been a toddler stage--old
enough to look as though they didn't need as much work, yet deceptively so.
Toddler plants probably need even more work than infant plants, at least in
my case!~

All I can advise you to do is buy more plants and try again, hopefully
the weather will co-operate, oh, and cilantro likes a bit of shade.


Shade?!?!?!?! The little name/info thing with the plants said full sun!!!
Maybe that's one of the reasons they died so quickly! Darn it all!

A final piece of advice; even the most experienced gardener has
failures or perplexing questions every year (this newsgroups existance
is proof of that), let experience be your teacher. Each year you will
be both wiser and have more questions, it's a vicious circle but a
fascinating one!


Thanks for the reassuring words! I am determined to have at least a little
success in this field, even if it means one tiny, unripe tomato and just
enough cilantro for a small bowl of cilantro, and enough basil to garnish a
pasta dish. That's all I need this year to meet my goals (I have to set
them very very low, since I won't meet them, otherwise)!

rona




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Old 20-06-2003, 07:44 AM
Rona Yuthasastrakosol
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro


"Noydb" wrote in message
...

It is possible you drowned them with too much water, too little drainage.
When you replant, make certain there is a way for excess water to get out
the bottom of the pot.


The cilantro was mostly in terracotta pots, and the basil was in plastic
pots. The terracotta ones had a single drainage hole in the middle of the
bottom of the pots. The plastic pots had a lot of holes in the bottom. I'm
guessing the basil was well-drained, but the cilantro may not have been.


A foot or two isn't much leeway. It is also possible you assasinated them
with Roundup. Tiny droplets can travel a long ways and, if the plant was

as
stressed as you say, it would not have taken much to kill it.


Oops! At first, only 1 basil plant and one cilantro plant were truly dead
(beyond reviving) though another cilantro plant and one other basil plant
were near death (so for all practical purposes, were dead since I didn't
have enough skill to revive them). However, now all the basil plants are
dead and two more cilantro plants are dead. I'm, feeling very much like a
murderer. My poor baby basils are dead! I think the round-up may have
killed the first plants to die, but the others I'm not sure about. It was
almost a week before they died, and the tomato plants are still fine. The
tomatoes were not that far from the basil plants and, in fact, would have
blocked the basil from the round-up. I do have one cilantro plant left, so
I'm hoping for the best with it!

Oh well, I guess I'll have to try again!

Thanks for the reply!

rona



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Old 20-06-2003, 07:44 AM
Rona Yuthasastrakosol
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro



"Frogleg" wrote in message
...

Yeah. How moist is "moist"? Roughly, it means growing in soil that
has enough organic material to prevent either extremely rapid drying
out, or water standing in a pot or on the ground. Directions for
growing many plants say "does not like to be transplanted." I wouldn't
think basil was one of these, as it's often sold in little 6-packs and
seems to transplant well. I always sow cilantro seed where I plan the
plants to live, however. The good news is that cilantro is *very* easy
to grow from seed. Repeated plantings are suggested to keep a
reasonable supply going. You don't even need to buy seed packets --
just find a jar of coriander seed and plant some.


Both my basil and cilantro plants were from little plants (which seemed
healthy when I bought them). I'm starting to wonder if the soil I used was
not as good as it should have been. It was no-name brand potting soil, and
it had little styrofoam pellets in it. Why would it need styrofoam pellets?
I added some fertilizer to it but I may have also used the wrong kind of
fertilizer. It said it was for vegetable gardens, though, so shouldn't that
be good enough?


How far does a sneeze travel? Roundup is a *very* effective herbicide.
1 or 2 feet away from new little plants is pretty close.. Roundup does
its work on exposed foliage. It decays quickly (within a 2-4 days) and
has no effect on subsequent planting in the treated area. Very
meticulous gardeners wanting to kill specific plants/weeds *paint* it
on with a brush or sponge to avoid the effect of aerosol spraying.


Nice analogy! I think I'll have to give up on the round-up while my
remaining plants are still alive. Painting it on? I'm anal, but I'm not
*that* anal! Of course, if I become more proficient at this gardening
thing, then I may end up doing that one day....

Thanks for the reply!

rona


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Old 20-06-2003, 04:20 PM
Pat Meadows
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:36:58 -0500, "Rona Yuthasastrakosol"
wrote:



Both my basil and cilantro plants were from little plants (which seemed
healthy when I bought them). I'm starting to wonder if the soil I used was
not as good as it should have been. It was no-name brand potting soil, and
it had little styrofoam pellets in it. Why would it need styrofoam pellets?
I added some fertilizer to it but I may have also used the wrong kind of
fertilizer. It said it was for vegetable gardens, though, so shouldn't that
be good enough?


Cilantro bolts to seed very rapidly. I wouldn't buy little
plants - by the time you buy them, they're probably just
about finished.

I start seeds and grow cilantro indoors on a sunny
windowsill. It takes just a little more than one month from
sowing the seed to harvesting the cilantro.

It's pretty easy to have a constant supply of cilantro: I
grow it in foil loaf pans - they fit nicely on a windowsill
(with another pan under them to catch the drips). I poked
drainage holes in the loaf pans with a pencil.

If I start one loafpan of cilantro each week (I have six of
them), I have a continuous supply of cilantro. The seed
wants darkness to germinate (or so I'm informed, anyway, by
Ann Reilly's 'Parks Success with Seed'), so I cover the
loafpan with foil until the seed sprouts. Then I put it in
the windowsill.

For economy's sake, I usually buy 'coriander seeds' in a
grocery store and use them - although I did buy seeds from
Pinetree once and they don't bolt as quickly, so they're
probably worth it.

Pat
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Old 21-06-2003, 02:32 AM
Rona Yuthasastrakosol
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro



"Pat Meadows" wrote in message
...

Cilantro bolts to seed very rapidly. I wouldn't buy little
plants - by the time you buy them, they're probably just
about finished.


Hmm, that's good to know. These were really piddly looking plants, so I
assumed they were still growing. I guess I thought they would be more plush
like the basil was (I *did* say I was a neophyte :-)).

I start seeds and grow cilantro indoors on a sunny
windowsill. It takes just a little more than one month from
sowing the seed to harvesting the cilantro.

It's pretty easy to have a constant supply of cilantro: I
grow it in foil loaf pans - they fit nicely on a windowsill
(with another pan under them to catch the drips). I poked
drainage holes in the loaf pans with a pencil.


Thanks for the tip! I never thought of using foil loaf pans for growing
things. They're cheap enough to buy many of!

If I start one loafpan of cilantro each week (I have six of
them), I have a continuous supply of cilantro. The seed
wants darkness to germinate (or so I'm informed, anyway, by
Ann Reilly's 'Parks Success with Seed'), so I cover the
loafpan with foil until the seed sprouts. Then I put it in
the windowsill.


Do they grow during winter, too? We have very cold winters (I'm north of
North Dakota) so I would be a bit worried about them freezing to death.
Apparently mine have all died of sun-stroke, though, so I may as well try
out all the forms of death by exposure.

For economy's sake, I usually buy 'coriander seeds' in a
grocery store and use them - although I did buy seeds from
Pinetree once and they don't bolt as quickly, so they're
probably worth it.

Pat


I never thought coriander spices would grow. I had always thought they were
irradiated or something like that. I can buy fairly cheap coriander from
the scoop and weigh all year round, so I'd have a constant supply!

Thanks again for the advice!

rona


  #10   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2003, 08:08 AM
Joanne
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" wrote in message ...

I'm going to buy new basil plants (incidently, this was Thai basil, not
Italian basil, in case that makes a difference) and start all over again.
This time I'll keep them in their starter pots until they are very healthy,
then I'll transplant them. I'll keep them inside for a bit, too. I had
thought they were healthy, since they were quite plentiful. But they were
only ~5 inches high so I guess that may have been a toddler stage--old
enough to look as though they didn't need as much work, yet deceptively so.
Toddler plants probably need even more work than infant plants, at least in
my case!~


5 inches sounds large enough to go outside, you can't control the
weather.


Shade?!?!?!?! The little name/info thing with the plants said full sun!!!
Maybe that's one of the reasons they died so quickly! Darn it all!


A little shade, not all shade.

Also, I noted in another post that you used potting soil, did you mean
in the outdoor environment? Outside I would use triple mix (I think
that is a mix of top soil, compost and peat moss). Potting soil is
for indoor plants I believe. I have used potting soil sucessfuly to
germinate seeds indoors but I doubt that it is optimum in the great
outdoors.

jcm


  #11   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2003, 02:56 PM
Pat Meadows
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:23:37 -0500, "Rona Yuthasastrakosol"
wrote:


If I start one loafpan of cilantro each week (I have six of
them), I have a continuous supply of cilantro. The seed
wants darkness to germinate (or so I'm informed, anyway, by
Ann Reilly's 'Parks Success with Seed'), so I cover the
loafpan with foil until the seed sprouts. Then I put it in
the windowsill.


Do they grow during winter, too? We have very cold winters (I'm north of
North Dakota) so I would be a bit worried about them freezing to death.
Apparently mine have all died of sun-stroke, though, so I may as well try
out all the forms of death by exposure.


Sure. As long as they can get sunshine - but you'd probably
need to remove them from the windowsills at night or they'd
freeze. Just put them somewhere else at night.


For economy's sake, I usually buy 'coriander seeds' in a
grocery store and use them - although I did buy seeds from
Pinetree once and they don't bolt as quickly, so they're
probably worth it.

Pat


I never thought coriander spices would grow. I had always thought they were
irradiated or something like that. I can buy fairly cheap coriander from
the scoop and weigh all year round, so I'd have a constant supply!

Thanks again for the advice!


Give it a try! You've very little to lose. Being
experimental with gardening is fun, IMHO.

BTW, I didn't mention it, but I use either seed-starting mix
or Pro-Mix in the loafpans. Either seems to work well.

I grew garden cress this year in the same manner, but we
decided that neither of us likes it much so I probably won't
bother with it again.

Pat
  #12   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2003, 04:33 PM
Lynn Smythe
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro

Cilantro is one of my favorite herbs. I use tons of it in homemade salsa
along with my organicaly grown tomatoes. And when it bolts to seed (which it
does too quickly in my zone 10 garden) then I have lots of coriander to use
in curries and other yummy recipes.

I grow tons of basil too: lemon, cinnamon, sweet, spicy globe, Thai, anise.
It goes too flower too quickly this time of year but the flowers look pretty
too. I use the lemon and cinnamon basil in cookie and shortbread recipes -
served at a tea party my mom and I hosted a few days after xmas. Oh, I'm
getting hungry now!

Take care
--
Lynn Smythe
e-mail:
website:
http://users.adelphia.net/~lynnsmythe


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Old 21-06-2003, 05:44 PM
Frogleg
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:36:58 -0500, "Rona Yuthasastrakosol"
wrote:


Both my basil and cilantro plants were from little plants (which seemed
healthy when I bought them). I'm starting to wonder if the soil I used was
not as good as it should have been. It was no-name brand potting soil, and
it had little styrofoam pellets in it. Why would it need styrofoam pellets?
I added some fertilizer to it but I may have also used the wrong kind of
fertilizer. It said it was for vegetable gardens, though, so shouldn't that
be good enough?


Probably not styrofoam but perlite. It's a volcanic mineral that
performs some of the functions of humus/compost in lightening heavy
soil and evening out moisture absorption/retention. It's used in many
potting soils. Don't worry about it.

Sometimes you can harm young plants by over-fertilizing them. Read the
Directions! This is not a case where if a little is good, more is
better. The only thing I can consistently remember about fertilizer is
that the nitrogen component (the first number in the N-P-K labels) is
for leaf growth. Others can be more specific in their recommendations.
Young, non-fruiting plants shouldn't need a lot of fertilizer to start
out with.

The most likely killer was the Roundup sprayed nearby.

As for leaving plants in little pots longer, mentioned in another
post, that's kind of an experience/judgment call. I know what *I'd*
call a basil plant ready to go into the ground, but would be hard put
to describe it. About this high, with healthy leaves about that big.
:-) Leaving some plants (tomatoes spring to mind) in too-small
starter homes makes them root-bound and unhappy. You can pretty well
figure a veg is ready to go into the ground or a big pot when roots
emerge from drainage holes. Or if you can lift it out of the pot and
see roots circling around the surface. Not that you have to wait that
long to transplant.

I completely agree with Pat about growing cilantro from seed. I bought
little dill plants for years that shot up into one spindly stalk and
went to seed within hours, it seemed. I finally sprinkled some seeds
around (in large pots) and let them take their chances. They came up
and grew plenty of fronds for cooking and went to seed in due time to
create more plants. I sometimes (SE Virginia) get 3 generations in a
season. I have less luck with cilantro, but the principle's the same
-- seed it where you want it to grow. It really doesn't take to
transplanting.
  #14   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2003, 03:56 PM
Rona Yuthasastrakosol
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro



"Joanne" wrote in message
m...

5 inches sounds large enough to go outside, you can't control the
weather.


True, but I could have controlled my trigger-round-up finger!


A little shade, not all shade.


Soooo...what is a little shade? I had the plants on the north side of the
house, which gets sun pretty much all day. The east side gets sun most of
the day, but shade in the afternoon. If I keep the cilantro outside, would
it be better to keep it on the east side or the north side? There is an
area right next to the house on the north side, which does not get as much
sun because it is shaded by the house.

Also, I noted in another post that you used potting soil, did you mean
in the outdoor environment? Outside I would use triple mix (I think
that is a mix of top soil, compost and peat moss). Potting soil is
for indoor plants I believe. I have used potting soil sucessfuly to
germinate seeds indoors but I doubt that it is optimum in the great
outdoors.


It said it was potting soil that was for outdoor pots. No-name brand.
Maybe I should have splurged for something a little pricier. At least I
would have known what I was getting, then. Oh well...next time! (Which
will probably be today!)

rona


  #15   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2003, 03:56 PM
Rona Yuthasastrakosol
 
Posts: n/a
Default basil and cilantro


"Frogleg" wrote in message
...

Probably not styrofoam but perlite. It's a volcanic mineral that
performs some of the functions of humus/compost in lightening heavy
soil and evening out moisture absorption/retention. It's used in many
potting soils. Don't worry about it.


Isn't perlite a bit shiny and angular in shape? Not necessarily square, but
definitely not round? This stuff is white and spherical. Perfect spheres,
actually. When I first opened the bag I picked one up and felt it. It
didn't squish in my fingers and was very, very hard. My first thought was
that it was styrofoam, since it's very much like the pellets my dad used to
fill bean bag chairs. But I'll check again.

Sometimes you can harm young plants by over-fertilizing them. Read the
Directions! This is not a case where if a little is good, more is
better. The only thing I can consistently remember about fertilizer is
that the nitrogen component (the first number in the N-P-K labels) is
for leaf growth. Others can be more specific in their recommendations.
Young, non-fruiting plants shouldn't need a lot of fertilizer to start
out with.

The most likely killer was the Roundup sprayed nearby.


My weapon of choice!

As for leaving plants in little pots longer, mentioned in another
post, that's kind of an experience/judgment call. I know what *I'd*
call a basil plant ready to go into the ground, but would be hard put
to describe it. About this high, with healthy leaves about that big.
:-) Leaving some plants (tomatoes spring to mind) in too-small
starter homes makes them root-bound and unhappy. You can pretty well
figure a veg is ready to go into the ground or a big pot when roots
emerge from drainage holes. Or if you can lift it out of the pot and
see roots circling around the surface. Not that you have to wait that
long to transplant.


All of the plants had roots around the surface. But I'm wondering, I
"massaged" the root area a bit to spread the soil and roots out, before
putting them in their new pots. Was this a bad thing to do? I thought if
Martha Stewart did it, then I could do it too!

rona


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