Hi there...

Living in an apartment block, I only have a very
small bit of actual land. Most of my plants this
year are planned for buckets.

But I do have an area totally maybe 3 square
metres (about 3 sq yrds?) right up in front of the
building. So I figure that I might as well use
it.

I hand-tilled the area a couple of days ago, and,
maybe 5-10 cm down, ran into a plastic woven mat,
and, apparantly, solid rock.

My new idea is to buy some "garden edging," which
is a bunch of small wood rectangles wired together
on the back.
http://www.mitre10.co.nz/products/item.asp?iCatego
ryID=9&lSKU=635886&loggedin=False

This will help with building up a small bed, with
maybe 20-25 cm of soil depth.

So, for 3 sq metres, and adding, say 10 new cm of
soil...

What should I use? The closest/easiest thing is
"potting mix" with peat and bark. (That is what I
am using for my bucket-bound plants.) I can go
downtown for some sheep manure if that would be
better, though. (I live in the 'burbs, so a
truckload of horse manure, etc, is out of the
question.)

And, generally, I am very interested in
suggestions for veggies that will work with that
soil depth. I am doing a bit of research to find
the best spacing. Since this is my first year,
and I a focussed upon just learning, I am open to
anything. My plans include maybe some lettuce,
broccoli, capsicum (bell pepper), and ???
(Whatever will fit.

(Tomatoes are scheduled for late Oct, in 20-litre
buckets.)

Thanks in advance for your advice!


--
Guide To DIY Living
http://www.self-reliance.co.nz
(Work in progress)

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 02:44:23 -0700, Down Under On The Bucket Farm
wrote:


But I do have an area totally maybe 3 square
metres (about 3 sq yrds?) right up in front of the
building. So I figure that I might as well use
it.

I hand-tilled the area a couple of days ago, and,
maybe 5-10 cm down, ran into a plastic woven mat,
and, apparantly, solid rock.

http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

may be of some help. Many garden veg have relatively shallow roots, so
you don't have to have great depth in your raised bed (I've grown
lettuce in an old dresser drawer!). I'd skip the carrots, although
there *are* super-short varieties. One concern might be drainage, if
it *is* solid rock beneath. But if you haven't noticed pooling of
water in the area, it probably has some way to run off.

Funny, the subject of sheep manure doesn't come up often. Cow,
chicken, rabbit, and horse is all good ('though horse manure tends to
be weedy).

Good luck.

"Down Under On The Bucket Farm" wrote in message
...
Hi there...
What should I use? The closest/easiest thing is
"potting mix" with peat and bark. (That is what I
am using for my bucket-bound plants.) I can go
downtown for some sheep manure if that would be
better, though. (I live in the 'burbs, so a
truckload of horse manure, etc, is out of the
question.)

Given your situation, I'd first lay out where I was going to put the bed.
Then I'd take the dirt in that area down to the plastic mat and put it in a
pile with an equal amount of sand and the compost that you're going to use.
Add equal amounts of blood meal, bone meal, and wood ash (not from a bbq,
from wood that has been burnt) to make up the rest of what you have. The
dirt from the patch will add the bacteria to the rest of the mix, you need
that for a healthy bed. Then put up your construct, but don't sink it down
below the level of the original yard, better if you leave a bit of the
original arround the edge so that it sits up. This way you've given a good
5-10 cm for water to drain from the bed. Then fill the bed with your mix.
I'd water it down about halfway through the filling, it helps with making
sure that the initial plantings have a good bed. Water the whole thing once
your done, but never, ever step in it.

Hope this helps,
Philip

writes:

What should I use? The closest/easiest thing is
"potting mix" with peat and bark. (That is what I
am using for my bucket-bound plants.) I can go
downtown for some sheep manure if that would be
better, though. (I live in the 'burbs, so a
truckload of horse manure, etc, is out of the
question.)

I'll pass on to you what I told my middle son when he installed raised
beds this spring. His were placed on a water-bound clay soil.

We were able to get a load of horse manure for him to put straight on the
bottom for about a 4-inch thickness. On top of that, he put horse manure
mixed 50/50 with his existing soil. Their garden this year has done
exceptionally well, truly one to be very pleased with.

I would think the sheep manure could be used in the same way and produce
much the same results.

It shouldn't be a worry about putting the straight manure on the bottom
because the earthworms are going to be working through this and mix it
well. It also gives a good organic base to your garden area.

BTW, my son purchased his raised bed materials from the source I requested
earlier this year, http://www.ecologicalsgardens.com for those of you who
might be interested. They are very pleased with the beds, especially the
bounty which, of course, has little to do with the construction material
but everything to do with what goes into the bed as its basis (manure,
soil, etc.) and the care (both sunlight and water) after planting.

I always put the horse manure as the bottom layer in my pots (very large
for potatoes and tomatoes), usually 6-8 inches, and fill the remainder
(12-24 inches) with good ol' plain garden soil, which in my case is last
year's horse-manured prepared and used one season. They have worked well
for me when I properly water them. It's always a bit amazing at the end
of the season when the pots are dumped back into the garden how many
earthworms are still working away, doing their thing.

As always, your mileage may vary, but that's what works here.

Glenna

Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote:

Hi there...

Living in an apartment block, I only have a very
small bit of actual land. Most of my plants this
year are planned for buckets.

But I do have an area totally maybe 3 square
metres (about 3 sq yrds?) right up in front of the
building. So I figure that I might as well use
it.

I hand-tilled the area a couple of days ago, and,
maybe 5-10 cm down, ran into a plastic woven mat,
and, apparantly, solid rock.

My new idea is to buy some "garden edging," which
is a bunch of small wood rectangles wired together
on the back.
http://www.mitre10.co.nz/products/item.asp?iCatego
ryID=9&lSKU=635886&loggedin=False

This will help with building up a small bed, with
maybe 20-25 cm of soil depth.

So, for 3 sq metres, and adding, say 10 new cm of
soil...

What should I use? The closest/easiest thing is
"potting mix" with peat and bark. (That is what I
am using for my bucket-bound plants.) I can go
downtown for some sheep manure if that would be
better, though. (I live in the 'burbs, so a
truckload of horse manure, etc, is out of the
question.)

And, generally, I am very interested in
suggestions for veggies that will work with that
soil depth. I am doing a bit of research to find
the best spacing. Since this is my first year,
and I a focussed upon just learning, I am open to
anything. My plans include maybe some lettuce,
broccoli, capsicum (bell pepper), and ???
(Whatever will fit.

(Tomatoes are scheduled for late Oct, in 20-litre
buckets.)

Thanks in advance for your advice!



All of those roots will go deeper than your soil if permitted but should
still manage okay despite being shallow. Is it possible that you could
drive some stakes into the ground and fasten a second row of that edging to
them?

The soil mix recommendation you were given is a good one. You might also
consider (if adding that seconds layer) filling the first layer with straw,
manure, etc. which will be well along in its break-down by the time the
plant roots enter that zone. Moreover, having straw for a bottom layer is
much like having a sponge down there. It's all good.

Oh ... and congrats on having spied out this parcel to grow in, however
small.

Bill

--
Zone 8b (Detroit, MI)
I do not post my address to news groups.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 02:44:23 -0700, Down Under On The Bucket Farm
wrote:

But I do have an area totally maybe 3 square
metres (about 3 sq yrds?) right up in front of the
building. So I figure that I might as well use
it.

suggestions for veggies that will work with that
soil depth. I am doing a bit of research to find
the best spacing. Since this is my first year,
and I a focussed upon just learning, I am open to
anything.

Squash heheh, maybe they'll only complain when it starts covering
everyones cars and climbing up to everyones windows g

Dan

Check and see if your municipality has a composting program. If so,
you might be able to buy city compost for the cost of delivery. For
$50 in my area, I can get a tonne delivered to my doorsteps. These
compost piles are made from grass clippings and leaves gathered in the
fall so I tend to find Holloween candy wrappers mixed into the
compost.

In article
,
says...

I'd skip the carrots, although
there *are* super-short varieties.


I am figuring on carrots going into buckets -
maybe three per 10-litre bucket, starting from
seeds in ummmm... "late spring" say the seed
packages? (Maybe Nov. 15 or so...)



One concern might be drainage, if
it *is* solid rock beneath. But if you haven't noticed pooling of
water in the area, it probably has some way to run off.


I think that drainage is OK, since my area is in
between similar/adjacent areas for the neighbours.
I will put the edging a bit above the bottom level
(where the rock is), so there can be drainage out
to the sides. Had rain yesterday, and the tilled
area didn't have much pooling, esp after the rain
stopped.


Funny, the subject of sheep manure doesn't come up often. Cow,
chicken, rabbit, and horse is all good


Here in NZ, the sheep out-number the humans about
eleven-to-one. We probably have the world's
highest per-capita supply of sheep manure


Good luck.


Thanks to you, and to everybody else who replied!

--
Guide To DIY Living
http://www.self-reliance.co.nz
(Work in progress)

writes:

Here in NZ, the sheep out-number the humans about
eleven-to-one. We probably have the world's
highest per-capita supply of sheep manure

Hmmmm. That means if each person had their *average* sheep population,
I'd have eleven in my back yard. That would certainly supply me with
enough fertilizer for my garden . . . the question would be, for how many
years?

LOL

Glenna

snip
BTW, my son purchased his raised bed materials from the source I requested
earlier this year, http://www.ecologicalsgardens.com for those of you who
might be interested. They are very pleased with the beds, especially the
bounty which, of course, has little to do with the construction material
but everything to do with what goes into the bed as its basis (manure,
soil, etc.) and the care (both sunlight and water) after planting.

endsnip

Now, Glenna.
OF COURSE the bounty has EVERYTHING to do with the materials!

Seriously. Good to hear that the product was suitable and thanks for the
kind words.

--
John H. Immink


http://www.renaissancegardens.com/
http://www.ecologicalsgardens.com/
msn messenger: Hortus Plasticus )
Outgoing verified by Norton AV

writes:

Now, Glenna.
OF COURSE the bounty has EVERYTHING to do with the materials!

Seriously. Good to hear that the product was suitable and thanks for the
kind words.

Thank you for the hearty chuckle, John. Only us gardeners know the
truth.g

I'm amazed at those people I know who consider how their garden looks as
more important than what goes into it . . . and then wonder why my garden
yields better. I tell them that horse manure base makes a difference but
they "would never consider putting *that stuff*" in their gardens.

Oh well, their loss.

You are welcome. The beds look nice in their yards also which is
important because his mother-in-law is one of the "pretty yard" people,
regardless of what it costs ecologically. The latest thing from her has
been my 4-year-old granddaughter who just tracked in dirt from the garden
telling me, "You have dirt on your floor, G.G. Grandma name omitted
doesn't ever have dirt on her floor." (I can only imagine where that came
from!) I just smiled and said, "This is garden dirt, and garden dirt is
good dirt because it grows such good food." She looked at me thoughtfully
and said, "Yeah, you're right, G.G. We need garden dirt" and happily
started washing her hands with which she had just dug carrots and
potatoes. :-)

Glenna

Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote:

And, generally, I am very interested in
suggestions for veggies that will work with that
soil depth. I am doing a bit of research to find
the best spacing. Since this is my first year,
and I a focussed upon just learning, I am open to
anything. My plans include maybe some lettuce,
broccoli, capsicum (bell pepper), and ???
(Whatever will fit.

(Tomatoes are scheduled for late Oct, in 20-litre
buckets.)

squarefootgardening.com will help you with spacing. Also you should
consider if you can grow vertically (also covered there). Using a
frame you grow things up rather than allow them to sprawl along the
ground consuming more ground space.

I think it is important to grow what you eat and worry less about the
depth. Carrots will grow they just won't be straight, and shorter
varieties exist. For salad I prefer multiple types of lettuce,
spinach, radishes, carrots, snow peas or snap peas, peppers &
tomatoes. I love onion and garlic. You can also read up on succession
planting. Early spring plants can be planted to share an area with
late summer. I had radishes, lettuces, spinach, snap peas and short
carrots around my pepper and tomato plants. By the time the early
crops harvested and died the tomatoes and peppers started to take off
and overshadow them. FOr some carrots the timing was off, I ended up
with tiny carrots(not enough sun towards the end)

Squash, melons, cucumbers all like to sprawl so you'll benefit from
growing them vertically at the north end of the plot and keeping them
manageable. It seems to me that plants only grow as large as their
root systems can maintain. If there isn't enough depth/footage you may
end up with a smaller plant with fewer fruits, but it will grow. Rich
soil amendments and consistent moisture compensate some for small
space.

Interplanting herbs and flowers are said to be beneficial. Nasturtiums
successfully attracted aphids and kept them off my other plants.
Thyme, Oregano, Parsley, Chives, Sage are all intermixed in corners of
big pots and around the big plants. (Oregano is in a separate pot-it
can spreads like a weed). Dill is very tall and Basil can be a small
bush to itself.
DiGiTAL ViNYL (no email)
Zone 6b/7, Westchester Co, NY, 1 mile off L.I.Sound
1st Year Gardener

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:19:08 +0000, DigitalVinyl wrote:


Squash, melons, cucumbers all like to sprawl so you'll benefit from
growing them vertically at the north end of the plot and keeping them
manageable. It seems to me that plants only grow as large as their root
systems can maintain. If there isn't enough depth/footage you may end up
with a smaller plant with fewer fruits, but it will grow. Rich soil
amendments and consistent moisture compensate some for small space.

I just happened to notice this posting. I'd like to make a small revision
of this paragraph. Since the original poster lives south of the equator, I
think he'll want he vining crops trellised on the SOUTH side of the
garden. The idea of trellising either north or south is to allow all the
plants a chance at the sun ... only shading varieties (such as lettuces)
that need a bit of shelter from heat.

Bill

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:19:08 +0000, DigitalVinyl wrote:


Squash, melons, cucumbers all like to sprawl so you'll benefit from
growing them vertically at the north end of the plot and keeping them
manageable. It seems to me that plants only grow as large as their root
systems can maintain. If there isn't enough depth/footage you may end up
with a smaller plant with fewer fruits, but it will grow. Rich soil
amendments and consistent moisture compensate some for small space.

I just happened to notice this posting. I'd like to make a small revision
of this paragraph. Since the original poster lives south of the equator, I
think he'll want he vining crops trellised on the SOUTH side of the
garden. The idea of trellising either north or south is to allow all the
plants a chance at the sun ... only shading varieties (such as lettuces)
that need a bit of shelter from heat.

Bill