In article ,
says...

Hello everybody. It's been a while since I have posted here but I am
sure there are still lots of tomato experts around. I grew Mortgage
Lifter for the first time last year (Radiator Charlie's strain) and
was most impressed with their size and taste. This year I would also
like to grow the Red Mortgage Lifter. Problem is, I haven't found a
good source yet. The only source I have found is in Maine and I am in
Tennessee, Zone 6B. Please let me know if you have a good, more
southerly source, for Red Mortgage Lifter. I don't mind growing seeds
from Indiana or New Jersey but I think I would be pushing my luck
trying to grow seeds acclimated to Maine here in the Tennessee heat
and humidity.

Thanks in advance,
Lee


The only time I have actually seen a "Red Mortgage Lifter" was when Burpee had
an heirloom catalog several years ago. My impression is that it is about as
like the old Mortgage Lifter as the Red Brandywine is like Pink Brandywine, It
is a relatively new variety developed by one of seed savers exchange folks.


Check he

http://www.rareseeds.com/

Bill
--
We are alone, absolutely alone on this chance planet, and, amid all
the forms of life that surround us, no one, excepting the dog, has
made an alliance with us.
- Maurice Maeterlinck

"Lee Hall" wrote in message...
I think I would be pushing my luck trying to grow seeds acclimated to
Maine here in the Tennessee heat
and humidity.

Thanks in advance,
Lee

I really can't see how this would be a problem. Seeds don't get
acclimatized. Certain types of tomatoes will grow better in hot or cool
climates, but the same type of tomato will favour the same growing
conditions.

Jo

While it is true that the seeds themselves do not get acclimatized, a
certain amount of genetic drift in a variety is inevitable in spite of the
best efforts at maintainance of varietal purity. If Lee gets seed that was
produced more locally rather than in Maine, it is possible that the strain
will have adapted to the southern climate to some degree.

I do not know for this variety in particular whether there is a common
source of foundation seed used by the commercial growers. If there is, even
if the seed sold at retail is grown out locally from foundation or
registered seed, it is unlikely that much varietal drift could have occured
in two generations. In that case, seed from any source will be largely the
same.

If there are several sources of unrelated foundation seed, which is possible
with an older variety such as this, then each strain may have adapted to the
local conditions where it is maintained. But since tomato seed is not
necessarily grown in the regions where it is sold, there is no guarantee
that seed bought in Tennesee will have been grown closer by than seed bought
from Maine.

--
Sam

"Jo" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...

"Lee Hall" wrote in message...
I think I would be pushing my luck trying to grow seeds acclimated to
Maine here in the Tennessee heat
and humidity.

Thanks in advance,
Lee

I really can't see how this would be a problem. Seeds don't get
acclimatized. Certain types of tomatoes will grow better in hot or cool
climates, but the same type of tomato will favour the same growing
conditions.

Jo

On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 23:55:24 GMT, "Jo"
wrote:


"Lee Hall" wrote in message...
I think I would be pushing my luck trying to grow seeds acclimated to
Maine here in the Tennessee heat
and humidity.

Thanks in advance,
Lee

I really can't see how this would be a problem. Seeds don't get
acclimatized.


They can and do.

Pretend you are a seedsman. You grow 20 [of the same
variety] tomato plants. The ones that prosper in your
particular climate make more tomatoes and therefore more
seeds. You sell some of those seeds and plant others for
your next year's crop.

Next year: repeat. And so on.

This will operate in the same manner as natural selection,
except it's aided by man.


Certain types of tomatoes will grow better in hot or cool
climates, but the same type of tomato will favour the same growing
conditions.


(Non-hybrid) plants will have some genetic drift and the
seedsman's selection will - over time - produce a strain of
seeds which will produce plants more suited to his climate,
soil, and other growing conditions.

Pat
--
Pat Meadows

CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International: http://www.thehungersite.com/

"Mahasamatman" wrote in message thlink.net...
While it is true that the seeds themselves do not get acclimatized, a
certain amount of genetic drift in a variety is inevitable in spite of the
best efforts at maintainance of varietal purity. If Lee gets seed that was
produced more locally rather than in Maine, it is possible that the strain
will have adapted to the southern climate to some degree.

I do not know for this variety in particular whether there is a common
source of foundation seed used by the commercial growers. If there is, even
if the seed sold at retail is grown out locally from foundation or
registered seed, it is unlikely that much varietal drift could have occured
in two generations. In that case, seed from any source will be largely the
same.

If there are several sources of unrelated foundation seed, which is possible
with an older variety such as this, then each strain may have adapted to the
local conditions where it is maintained. But since tomato seed is not
necessarily grown in the regions where it is sold, there is no guarantee
that seed bought in Tennesee will have been grown closer by than seed bought
from Maine.

--
Sam

"Jo" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...

"Lee Hall" wrote in message...
I think I would be pushing my luck trying to grow seeds acclimated to
Maine here in the Tennessee heat
and humidity.

Thanks in advance,
Lee

I really can't see how this would be a problem. Seeds don't get
acclimatized. Certain types of tomatoes will grow better in hot or cool
climates, but the same type of tomato will favour the same growing
conditions.

Jo




I suppose the difference would be whether the supplier in Maine merely
orders their seed from some other commercial suppliers or whether they
harvest seeds from their own field trials. If the latter is the case,
I think it would matter. Anyway, I would rather take my chances
ordering from somewhere the climate isn't so radically different from
here. Being a road construction inspector rather than a botanist, I
can't speak with any scientific authority but I do know that I have
had great success with seeds obtained locally from non-commercial
sources.

I am sure that the part about different varieties thriving in
different areas is correct. I have grown pink, red and black
brandywines which are definitely a northern variety. Here in
Tennessee they are disease prone and not very productive. They do
have a fantastic taste, though, which is why I will still be growing
the black variety. Unfortunately, I still haven't found any strain of
tomato that is resistant to the stifling heat here that also has a
good taste. Jetstar and Heatwave grow okay here but have all of the
taste of cardboard. That is why I am trying Tropic this year.

I suppose the difference would be whether the supplier in Maine merely
orders their seed from some other commercial suppliers or whether they
harvest seeds from their own field trials. If the latter is the case,
I think it would matter.

You may not realize that there is a hierarchy of seed for commercial
distribution. While the details vary somewhat from state to state and crop
to crop, in general there are three categories of seed:

Foundation
Registered
Certified

Certified is what is ordinarily used for growing a crop, and is the least
pure of the grades. Registered is more pure, foundation is still more pure.
Foundation seed and registered seed can only be produced from foundation
seed (leaving aside for a moment the process of creating and releasing a new
variety), and certified seed can only be produced from foundation or
registered seed.

Because of the very high cost of producing foundation seed (due to the
isolation requirements and manual labor involved in roguing out off type
plants, and the testing costs, and the risk that the resulting crop may not
meet purity standards for foundation and have to be sold as registered
anyway), it is ordinarily produced only rarely. Foundation seed is stored
in a controlled environment and used to produce registered seed for many
years to come. Because of its value, foundation seed continues to be used
even when its germination has declined to as low as 20% or 30%.

So you see, the certified seed you buy is at most two generations removed
from the foundation seed. That does not provide much chance for genetic
drift, particularly since off-type plants are still rogued out by hand in
registered and certified plantings.

Typically the small-scale seed grower obtains registered seed from a company
that specializes in a particular crop, and then grows it out to produce
certified seed. So, more often, there is only one generation of
localization that occurs.

--
Sam

"Pat Meadows" wrote
, "Jo" wrote:


"Lee Hall" wrote in message...
I think I would be pushing my luck trying to grow seeds acclimated to
Maine here in the Tennessee heata and humidity.
I really can't see how this would be a problem. Seeds don't get
acclimatized.

They can and do.

Pretend you are a seedsman. You grow 20 [of the same variety] tomato
plants. The ones that prosper in
your particular climate make more tomatoes and therefore more
seeds. You sell some of those seeds and plant others for
your next year's crop.

Next year: repeat. And so on.

This will operate in the same manner as natural selection,
except it's aided by man.


Certain types of tomatoes will grow better in hot or cool
climates, but the same type of tomato will favour the same growing
conditions.


(Non-hybrid) plants will have some genetic drift and the
seedsman's selection will - over time - produce a strain of
seeds which will produce plants more suited to his climate,
soil, and other growing conditions.

Pat
--
Pat Meadows

That's not the way seed companies work. See the above post.

It would take many generations for enough "genetic drift" to take place to
change a warm to a cold weather variety or vice-versa (unless the plant is
being intentionally bred for a trait) and other traits would also appear
making it different enough not to be considered a different tomato.