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#31
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
Try ducks instead of chickens for eggs. They forage more on their own and
some breeds (Khaki Campbells) lay just as well as chickens. Geese are excellent foragers, but they don't lay for very long. I've found ducks to be more hardy, less likely to get sick, but messier. Jena |
#32
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ...
Excellent idea. Without such you will be subject to seasonal feast/famine even with good preserving techniques. David Since the original poster was posting from subtropical Australia, I doubt it. One just has to have winter vegetables, and things like grains and beans. |
#33
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"Bob Peterson" wrote in message ...
personally I suspect you can do a lot on 5 good acres with a continuous water source, but I am leery of trusting my life to such a small area. such a small area? In the US we produce easily 2 tons of wheat per acre, which will cover the caloric needs of 7. Given that 90% of the acreage is for feed, we have much less than an acre per person to live on. |
#34
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message news:jUIAb.453413$Tr4.1256311@attbi_s03...
[snip] I'm not sure acreage is necessary. I have a friend who grows all the fruit and produce she needs to support her family on a small urban lot. And she has enough left over to share with a local foodbank. Zucchini to the left of me. Zucchini to the right of me. Really, it depends on what your definition of "self-sufficient" is. Did you grow that computer terminal? Did you raise enough food to barter for that computer terminal? What about that hoe? Or that shovel? Or that nail? Or that chicken wire? Well, if you understand the answers to those questions, you probably were never here in the first place. Socks |
#35
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
there is someone in tasmania working along those lines as i understand
it he doesn't even have power, not sure now where i've seen his posts, but maybe you could post this question in aus.gardens, or http://www.au.gardenweb.com/forums/ozgard/. we have near 70 acres here in queensland in aus', can't live without power/phone etc.,. could grow enough veges on 2 to 5 acres need more to grow enough fruit but we love our meat so could never grow enough chooks/ducks/beef to keep the freezer full. then there are the things like sugar, salt, tea/coffee, fuel, soap etc.,. so maybe partial self sufficiency is attainable? could be a full time job just doing enough to survive. and like you say then the affects of climate/weather kick in. where starting off simply trying to supplement, so far w don't buy much in the vege line, but being in the sub-tropics can't imagine how to grow enough potatoes, sweet potatoes yes but then not every body likes them in the diet. just my thoughts keep us informed on how you as you go along. len snipped -- happy gardening 'it works for me it could work for you,' "in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment http://home.dnet.aunz.com/gardnlen/ |
#36
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
Ian Stirling wrote in message ...
In misc.survivalism Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote: Hi Everybody, I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc. One issue is the question of how much physical space would be needed to grow enough food to completely support myself? The answer kind of depends if you'r in the middle of the Amazon, Antarctica, or Austria. As Ian points out we'd need to know generally where you want to attempt this project. It's one thing to try it in the Southeast and quite another to try it in the Intermountain West. We'd also need to have a fair idea of what your choice of diet would be. The typical American eats a fair amount of meat, consumes a good deal of fat, and an even greater amount of sugar in his diet. All three of these will impact heavily on how much land you'd need to maintain your customary diet. Should you happen to be a vegetarian who does not customarily eat a lot of fats or sugar matters become much simpler. No matter how you cut it true subsistence farming is a time consuming occupation even with a high degree of mechanization. It can be done, but if you're not already an avid gardener you'd best be ready for a major lifestyle change. Gene Logsdon has published a number of books concerning homesteading - which is generally what you're talking about here - and they'll go a long way to pointing out the particulars of your project. In conjunction with spending some time with your local county agricultural agent to gain familiarity with local conditions you'll be a long ways towards understanding what it is you're wanting to do. My advice is to start small. Plant a reasonable sized vegetable garden to supply your fresh summer veggies. If you succeed with that expand your operation to supply your winter veggies - fresh or preserved. Then add in either small scale grain growing or small scale livestock such as chickens or rabbits. You manage all that and you'll have a very good idea of what you need to do to flesh out the rest of the plan. ......Alan. |
#37
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"...........In the US we produce easily 2 tons of wheat per
acre, which will cover the caloric needs of 7........." You might do this on 100 acre fields where the birds are spoiled for choice, but you try a small plot of grain and see just how much the birds have. -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk ***2004 catalogue now available*** |
#38
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"simy1" wrote in message om... "Bob Peterson" wrote in message ... personally I suspect you can do a lot on 5 good acres with a continuous water source, but I am leery of trusting my life to such a small area. such a small area? In the US we produce easily 2 tons of wheat per acre, which will cover the caloric needs of 7. Given that 90% of the acreage is for feed, we have much less than an acre per person to live on. true, but this is using highly mechanized farming, specialty chemicals, and hybrid seeds. what was being discussed was subsistence farming using all manual labor. a radically different idea. |
#39
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
When it came canning time (it) was weeks of very hard hot work to
'put up' hundreds of quarts or pints of fruits and vegitables. This is serious business since we didn't buy any canned goods. And for this, one needs a steady source of cooking flame, a pressure cooker, a source of clean water, a large container capable of holding multiple Mason jars, MULTIPLE Mason jars with matching seals and rings, storage space, and a good place to wash and dry everything in the first place. Or one can blanch most fruits/veggies and freeze them, but then one needs similar equipment as above, plus refrigeration/freezing, and suitable containers. Don't forget what the ambient temperatures are when all these foods ripen and need to be preserved over that hot cookstove, either. Linda H., veteran observer of canning |
#40
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
Thanks Linda,
Then what I remembered from 60+ years ago wasn't a flash back to 'Little House'. That really was my Mother sweeting over the wood stove on a hot August day after day after day.. Then going into tears when half the tomato jars burst their top. It is/was a rough life and I'm glad that I can now live in the woods, can't see any utility lines (cause their underground), have running water from a community well and with my social secruity and a small military pension I eat very well without a garden.. Ya see I worked hard all my life for the military and others and earned/paid into a pension plan that allows me to retire in comfort in the woods. Not to say there is anything wrong with hard work, but some of us are more inclined to work in society and in the end have what we want while others want to flee from society and work directly for what they want. In the end, let's hope that we both can eventually relax and enjoy the fruits of our individual labor. Steve |
#41
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
Ian Stirling wrote in message
... In misc.survivalism Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote: Hi Everybody, I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc. One issue is the question of how much physical space would be needed to grow enough food to completely support myself? Kains wrote "5 Acres and Independence" This is a reprint of a post WW2 get out of the city and back to the land overview. It was also republished as The Mother Earth News issue #2; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3572219710 I seem to recall a 5 acre section of fast growing hybrid poplars would supply an annual supply of firewood on a sustainable basis. Another title I recall is Independence on a 5 acre farm. Like any plan of this type, it all depends on the source of fresh water as the #1 factor. Bernadette |
#42
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"Bob Peterson" wrote in message ...
"simy1" wrote in message om... "Bob Peterson" wrote in message ... personally I suspect you can do a lot on 5 good acres with a continuous water source, but I am leery of trusting my life to such a small area. such a small area? In the US we produce easily 2 tons of wheat per acre, which will cover the caloric needs of 7. Given that 90% of the acreage is for feed, we have much less than an acre per person to live on. true, but this is using highly mechanized farming, specialty chemicals, and hybrid seeds. what was being discussed was subsistence farming using all manual labor. a radically different idea. not sure I agree. On 1/6 acre, you can do things manually and organically and still produce 300 kg over one year, and one can certainly use hybrid seeds. As a matter of fact, in the best places we do more like 4 tons per acre, so even if you want to save your own seeds and use older varieties there is room for error. We have been doing tons per acre for a long long time. Also, 300 kg of wheat are, what, 60-70 bucks? I don't see the need to farm five acres in the expectation of losing 97% of the crop. The guy has another job apparently. |
#43
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"David Hill" wrote in message ...
"...........In the US we produce easily 2 tons of wheat per acre, which will cover the caloric needs of 7........." You might do this on 100 acre fields where the birds are spoiled for choice, but you try a small plot of grain and see just how much the birds have. You may or may not be right. My birds even ignore the winter feeder I put out for them, and 10 lbs of bird food go unfinished (and I live in a place with plentiful wildlife) over the winter. As far as I can tell, at my place the birds will eat seed only under extreme need - they need the bugs more, and can find them even when the ground is frozen (winter berries are also reltively plentiful). The squirrels don't ignore the seeds, though, so I agree that one would have to continuously kill & eat squirrels to save the crop. So, 1/4 acre instead of 1/6? |
#44
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"Tallgrass" wrote in message om... When it came canning time (it) was weeks of very hard hot work to 'put up' hundreds of quarts or pints of fruits and vegitables. This is serious business since we didn't buy any canned goods. And for this, one needs a steady source of cooking flame, a pressure cooker, a source of clean water, a large container capable of holding multiple Mason jars, MULTIPLE Mason jars with matching seals and rings, storage space, and a good place to wash and dry everything in the first place. some things like tomatoes can be canned in a boiling water bath, but most will indeed need a pressure cooker. Or one can blanch most fruits/veggies and freeze them, but then one needs similar equipment as above, plus refrigeration/freezing, and suitable containers. Don't forget what the ambient temperatures are when all these foods ripen and need to be preserved over that hot cookstove, either. Linda H., veteran observer of canning |
#45
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"BernadetteTS" wrote in message ... Ian Stirling wrote in message ... In misc.survivalism Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote: Hi Everybody, I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc. One issue is the question of how much physical space would be needed to grow enough food to completely support myself? Kains wrote "5 Acres and Independence" This is a reprint of a post WW2 get out of the city and back to the land overview. It was also republished as The Mother Earth News issue #2; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3572219710 I seem to recall a 5 acre section of fast growing hybrid poplars would supply an annual supply of firewood on a sustainable basis. It kind of depends on how much you need. Some of these claims are based on very small housing units. I suppose if you had very well insulated and tight housing you might get by as well. You still have to cut and split the wood, which is a major chore in itself, even with power tools like a chainsaw and splitter to help you. Another title I recall is Independence on a 5 acre farm. Like any plan of this type, it all depends on the source of fresh water as the #1 factor. Bernadette |
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