I'll be trying out starting my own seeds indoors this year. I can usually
plant outdoors about the last frost date (raised beds / sheltered location
and so on) so when should the 'maters go in the potting soil?

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Anonymous said:

I'll be trying out starting my own seeds indoors this year. I can usually
plant outdoors about the last frost date (raised beds / sheltered location
and so on) so when should the 'maters go in the potting soil?

I don't start mine until April. Start them any sooner and they just get too
tall and lanky -- despite my high intensity light -- and threaten to get root
bound (in the biggest pots I can manage to use and still fit all my plants
under the lights).

I wouldn't start them any earlier unless I was planning to set them out
in tunnels or something of the sort. The go out when the expected night
time lows are 50 degrees and I still have to cover them over at some
point most years due to a late frost. (My garden is in the sunniest part
of the yard, which is also a frost pocket.)
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

(Pat Kiewicz) wrote in message ...
Anonymous said:

I'll be trying out starting my own seeds indoors this year. I can usually
plant outdoors about the last frost date (raised beds / sheltered location
and so on) so when should the 'maters go in the potting soil?

I don't start mine until April. Start them any sooner and they just get too
tall and lanky -- despite my high intensity light -- and threaten to get root
bound (in the biggest pots I can manage to use and still fit all my plants
under the lights).

I wouldn't start them any earlier unless I was planning to set them out
in tunnels or something of the sort. The go out when the expected night
time lows are 50 degrees and I still have to cover them over at some
point most years due to a late frost. (My garden is in the sunniest part
of the yard, which is also a frost pocket.)

I agree. right now is a good time to start lettuce for transplanting
on April 1, and that's about it (one could consider other greens
also). That way you use your growing shelves twice, with complete
turnover April 1 - it is good organization too. Even in tunnels one
year I lost them all (on May 22) because I tried to lay mulch right
away. And even if you cover them against a late frost, tomatoes get
shocked and stop growing when exposed to 35F. In fact, I can remember
only one year out of the last five when I started tomatoes early and
things went well.

Since the tunnel disaster I have grown 30+ seedlings and set them out
in two waves, and there is no difference in productivity or earliness.
This year I go the Pat way - second wave only. To beat the system you
have to have a well insulated greenhouse. Even a good coldframe won't
cut it. The tomatoes grow taller than a coldframe, and they also want
bigger pots than my 2-3" ones, after six weeks, so they want a lot of
horizontal and vertical space.

(Pat Kiewicz) wrote in message ...
Anonymous said:

I'll be trying out starting my own seeds indoors this year. I can usually
plant outdoors about the last frost date (raised beds / sheltered location
and so on) so when should the 'maters go in the potting soil?

I don't start mine until April. Start them any sooner and they just get too
tall and lanky -- despite my high intensity light -- and threaten to get root
bound (in the biggest pots I can manage to use and still fit all my plants
under the lights).

I wouldn't start them any earlier unless I was planning to set them out
in tunnels or something of the sort. The go out when the expected night
time lows are 50 degrees and I still have to cover them over at some
point most years due to a late frost. (My garden is in the sunniest part
of the yard, which is also a frost pocket.)

I agree. right now is a good time to start lettuce for transplanting
on April 1, and that's about it (one could consider other greens
also). That way you use your growing shelves twice, with complete
turnover April 1 - it is good organization too. Even in tunnels one
year I lost them all (on May 22) because I tried to lay mulch right
away. And even if you cover them against a late frost, tomatoes get
shocked and stop growing when exposed to 35F. In fact, I can remember
only one year out of the last five when I started tomatoes early and
things went well.

Since the tunnel disaster I have grown 30+ seedlings and set them out
in two waves, and there is no difference in productivity or earliness.
This year I go the Pat way - second wave only. To beat the system you
have to have a well insulated greenhouse. Even a good coldframe won't
cut it. The tomatoes grow taller than a coldframe, and they also want
bigger pots than my 2-3" ones, after six weeks, so they want a lot of
horizontal and vertical space.

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Anonymous said:

I'll be trying out starting my own seeds indoors this year. I can
usually
plant outdoors about the last frost date (raised beds / sheltered
location
and so on) so when should the 'maters go in the potting soil?

I don't start mine until April. Start them any sooner and they just
get too
tall and lanky -- despite my high intensity light -- and threaten to
get root
bound (in the biggest pots I can manage to use and still fit all my
plants
under the lights).

I wouldn't start them any earlier unless I was planning to set them
out
in tunnels or something of the sort. The go out when the expected
night
time lows are 50 degrees and I still have to cover them over at some
point most years due to a late frost. (My garden is in the sunniest
part
of the yard, which is also a frost pocket.)

Have you ever considered making a portable hoop house? I think we
Michiganders can add a month or two to the growing season by putting in
a small hoop house in early spring, removing it when it gets warm, and
putting it back up when nights get cold again.


--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Ray in Cadillac, Michigan (just moved from about twenty miles south of
Pontiac)

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 05:28:53 -0600, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Anonymous said:

I'll be trying out starting my own seeds indoors this year. I can usually
plant outdoors about the last frost date (raised beds / sheltered location
and so on) so when should the 'maters go in the potting soil?

I don't start mine until April. Start them any sooner and they just get too
tall and lanky -- despite my high intensity light -- and threaten to get root
bound (in the biggest pots I can manage to use and still fit all my plants
under the lights).

I prefer tall & lanky.

I plant all but the top growing tip in a post-hole
and then cover with cloches made from plastic one gallon jugs. This gives
me a great root system that leads to a very rapid recovery. In about 3
weeks, the top growth is as tall as if planted normally, but the root
system is much deeper than it would have been because the stem will form
roots all along its length.

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Ray Drouillard said:

Have you ever considered making a portable hoop house? I think we
Michiganders can add a month or two to the growing season by putting in
a small hoop house in early spring, removing it when it gets warm, and
putting it back up when nights get cold again.

Unless you are around to open it on some of those exceptionally early hot
days (or can rig it to open automatically) you are going to bake stuff in there.
That's what happened with my wall-o-water experiment a number of years ago.

Most springs we have some *really* dramatic weather turns. My daughter (spring
baby) was born on the day of an ice storm. One week later it was 80 degrees.
And a couple of weeks after that, it snowed!
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

(Pat Kiewicz) wrote in message ...
Ray Drouillard said:

Have you ever considered making a portable hoop house? I think we
Michiganders can add a month or two to the growing season by putting in
a small hoop house in early spring, removing it when it gets warm, and
putting it back up when nights get cold again.

Unless you are around to open it on some of those exceptionally early hot
days (or can rig it to open automatically) you are going to bake stuff in there.
That's what happened with my wall-o-water experiment a number of years ago.

Most springs we have some *really* dramatic weather turns. My daughter (spring
baby) was born on the day of an ice storm. One week later it was 80 degrees.
And a couple of weeks after that, it snowed!

Yes, one April, I think five years ago, the temperature swung 60F in
36 hours. Baking plants is an issue, and tall, young plants (such as
tomatoes) are the least tolerant of cold and hot. Young cabbage
seedlings are also sensitive.
It is really difficult to cheat with tomatoes around here. You have to
have a well-ventilated greenhouse with a decent thermal ballast.

At the other end of the spectrum, short plants (like lettuce or
chicory) that have overwintered and are well established can take that
kind of beating (under a hoophouse) without dying. Still, I tend to
uncover them sooner rather than later (around March 20), and
transplant the lettuce to its permanent location as soon as the
forecast predicts two or three overcast days, with rain and above
freezing temperatures. Having taken lots of cold units, they will be
more adapted to a cold spell than a hot spell.