Hornworms are big and easy to control by simply picking them off. Look
for them by noting the damage, and looking in that area. Also, if it's
quiet enough, you can shake the plant and listen for the clicking noise.

We used to amuse ourselves by plucking them off and feeding them to the
chickens.

If you see one with little white cocoons on its back, leave it alone.
It will do little damage, and the cocoons will hatch little parasitic
wasps that will work well at keeping the hornworm population down.


Ray


"Craig" wrote in message
ink.net...
Hi Again all,

Hornworms eh.....

All the leaves were taken from the stem on every plant except 4 now.
Also
today 2 Pepper plants were stripped. Do they eat those as well? I'll
have to
check for the buggers tommorrow morning when there is some light. I
guess
I'll try the sevin....

Thanks

Craig

"Katra" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry Blanchard wrote:

In article KatraMungBean-
,
says...
But when it comes to rapid destruction by critters such as
hornworms,
there is a time and a place for pesticides and sevin is the most
benign
of them!

I thought malathion was less dangerous than Sevin? Seems to me
I remember reading it wasn't harmful to anything with a
functioning liver, as the liver converted it to something
harmless.

But Sevin is the best spray for cornsilks :-).

Malathion kills birds.
Sevin does not...

I lost some baby ducklings because my neighbor used Malathion for
fire
ants and it washed into my yard during a rain. :-(

K.

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One major thing I have against sevin is that it is particularly
effective against bees.


Ray


"SugarChile" wrote in message
news
Have you tried Bt for the hornworms?

I wasn't trying to be judgmental, and I'm glad you didn't take it that
way.
We all have to make decisions about what level of pesticide use we are
comfortable with....I was just hoping to encourage people would
educate
themselves before automatically reaching for the spray. It sounds like
you
are working to create a balanced ecosystem and I applaud you for it.

Personally, I use dormant oil, "Sluggo" for slugs, Bt for serious
caterpillar infestations (such as fall webworms), insecticidal soap,
and
that's it. I handpick some pests, and learn to live with others. I
encourage beneficial predators as much as possible, and try to follow
good
cultural practices to avoid the need for fungicides. I don't grow
things,
such as roses, that need continual fussing over.

Aside from the real and potential harmful effects of
pesticides/herbicides,
I just hate suiting up to use them....and I'm willing to bet that many
homeowners and gardeners skip the warnings about goggles, protective
clothing and respirators.

Cheers,
Sue

--

Zone 6, South-central PA
"Katra" wrote in message
news:KatraMungBean-
You

Look, I know that pesticides are bad and work hard to develop my
biocontrol. Lizards, snakes, toads, spiders, assasin bugs and
ladybird
beetles are all welcome in my garden and there are plenty of them.

But when it comes to rapid destruction by critters such as
hornworms,
there is a time and a place for pesticides and sevin is the most
benign
of them!

I try to hand pick them, but the little *******s are hard to spot!!!

And they do oh so much damage oh so quickly. :-(

Pans of beer work for slugs and snails. Dark Ale seems to attract
far
more of them than cheap beer but that does not atttract hornworms.
;-)

I try, I really do, to stay as organic as possible, but sometimes
it's
just not practical!

K.

In article ,
Ray Drouillard wrote:

"Katra" wrote in message
...
In article t,
"Craig" wrote:

Hello All,

I was a little disturbed to find half my tomato plants leaves eaten
off this
morning. Seems some sort of critter picked all the leaves clean off.
He ate
all the tomato leaves off the plants that we not in cages, I had
intended to
stake them. My neighbor had an opossum in their yard last year.
Maybe it was
another opossum? I've never had anything disturb my tomato plants
before. It
looks like he might have tried a pepper plant but didn't like them.
Garlic,
onions, radishes, green beans, and lettuce all we untouched. Any
suggestion
on how to save my remaining and replacement tomatoes?



We've got opossums around here, and I've never seen any clue
that they are the culprits when a tomate plant goes missing.

Don't possums go after grubs ? I could see then digging up a
plant if they thought there was something good to eat
underneath.

I have cutworm problems, and this year I cut tin cans in half (4
inches dia by about 4 inches high, and put these around my plants. A
few days later I go into the garden and count the plants and one's
missing, can and all. That ain't no cutworm. Looking around the area
I found a woodland box turtle, but no sign of the tincan.





--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m

il Tue, 11 May 2004 02:40:07 -0500, Katra ha scritto:

Hornworm moths lay their eggs on the leaves. :-(
They don't eat the stems.

They sound a pain.

I try to hand pick the little buggers when possible, not the least
because it's so much fun to watch the ducks fight over them when I toss
them in with the poultry! Especially the larger ones. G

For birds, try some pinwheels, and those are decorative!
Owl decoys are also good and Wal-Mart has a nice supply of them right
now. Just move them weekly and make sure they cast a shadow.

I'm not sure our birds would know what an owl is.
As it's drawing to winter here it's more a matter of me getting out
and cleaning up the garden.
--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]

il Tue, 11 May 2004 03:02:35 -0500, Katra ha scritto:

Can anyone tell me how to control rats without poisoning?
Traps dont' work. Rats are too smart.

I had smart mice who could remove the bait without springing the
trap. So for a while I baited it but left it unsprung so they'd get
careless. Eventually I set the trap, tied the bait on to make it hard
remove, put the trap between two objects making a corridor that just
fit the trap width (to cut down the space for manouvering). That
seemed to work. Maybe that would work for rats.
--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]

il 11 May 2004 13:51:01 -0400, (Al Dykes) ha
scritto:

We've got opossums around here, and I've never seen any clue
that they are the culprits when a tomate plant goes missing.

Don't possums go after grubs ? I could see then digging up a
plant if they thought there was something good to eat
underneath.

Gee what kind of possums do you have? Our pests eat trees and greens
..

--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]

In article ,
Loki wrote:
il Tue, 11 May 2004 03:02:35 -0500, Katra ha scritto:

Can anyone tell me how to control rats without poisoning?
Traps dont' work. Rats are too smart.

I had smart mice who could remove the bait without springing the
trap. So for a while I baited it but left it unsprung so they'd get
careless. Eventually I set the trap, tied the bait on to make it hard
remove, put the trap between two objects making a corridor that just
fit the trap width (to cut down the space for manouvering). That
seemed to work. Maybe that would work for rats.


My mice like bannanas so well that I haven't tried anything else.

i worked out a trap setup that works great;

i get a thin board about a foot long and no wider than the traps. In
the middle I pound the tips of two nails (maybe 2 inch nails) just
deep enough to stay. Then I cut the heads of the nails off with wire
cutters.

Put Two mouse traps back-to-back on the board seperated by an inch or
a little more with the nails in the middle and the trigger ends
oriented towards the center. I use a drop of wood glue.

Cut a piece of banana and impale it on the nails, The skin
keeps it on. Cock the traps and put in along a wall. Put another
piece of wood along side to make a runway with no way to avoid
the triggers.

If a mouse is wiggling it's little butt while it's eating the bait
he's going to get caught.


--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m

Hi Katra,

I normally hate those things, but I'm also not afraid to just kill
the
rat when I find it in the glue trap so it won't suffer.

I don't like to kill animal, so I just wrap rat with newspaper and
throw it outside our fence to a bush, it will decompose to nothing
left within two months. The glue on rat will stick it with the
newspaper and make it unescapetable. I know this will make the rat
suffer, but as long as I don't see it with my eye, it's OK for me.
Think at it, most of my transplant are lost due to those rats, this
make me feel less guilty.

Rats here like to chew my transplant and even pull the transplant out
from soil.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m

In article ,
"Loki" wrote:

il Tue, 11 May 2004 02:40:07 -0500, Katra ha scritto:

Hornworm moths lay their eggs on the leaves. :-(
They don't eat the stems.

They sound a pain.

They are. :-(

I found a teensy one the other day on one of my tomato plants...

It's worm dip now. G


I try to hand pick the little buggers when possible, not the least
because it's so much fun to watch the ducks fight over them when I toss
them in with the poultry! Especially the larger ones. G

For birds, try some pinwheels, and those are decorative!
Owl decoys are also good and Wal-Mart has a nice supply of them right
now. Just move them weekly and make sure they cast a shadow.

I'm not sure our birds would know what an owl is.
As it's drawing to winter here it's more a matter of me getting out
and cleaning up the garden.

Might be instinctive. :-)
Owl decoys work very well for pest birds, and pigeons!

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

,,Cat's Haven Hobby Farm,,Katraatcenturyteldotnet,,

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In article ,
"Loki" wrote:

il Tue, 11 May 2004 03:02:35 -0500, Katra ha scritto:

Can anyone tell me how to control rats without poisoning?
Traps dont' work. Rats are too smart.

I had smart mice who could remove the bait without springing the
trap. So for a while I baited it but left it unsprung so they'd get
careless. Eventually I set the trap, tied the bait on to make it hard
remove, put the trap between two objects making a corridor that just
fit the trap width (to cut down the space for manouvering). That
seemed to work. Maybe that would work for rats.

I have to be cautious with snap traps.
The rats are mostly in the hen yard and I have pigeons. :-P

That is why I have to be SO careful with poison baits. I use the bar
bait and put it into suet cages so the rats cannot carry it off, and
make sure it stays under cover with crumb control.

Still scares me. :-( And I think I lose the occasional bird to it when I
do start poisoning even tho' I'm ever so careful!

K.

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In article , (Al Dykes)
wrote:

In article ,
Loki wrote:
il Tue, 11 May 2004 03:02:35 -0500, Katra ha scritto:

Can anyone tell me how to control rats without poisoning?
Traps dont' work. Rats are too smart.

I had smart mice who could remove the bait without springing the
trap. So for a while I baited it but left it unsprung so they'd get
careless. Eventually I set the trap, tied the bait on to make it hard
remove, put the trap between two objects making a corridor that just
fit the trap width (to cut down the space for manouvering). That
seemed to work. Maybe that would work for rats.


My mice like bannanas so well that I haven't tried anything else.

i worked out a trap setup that works great;

i get a thin board about a foot long and no wider than the traps. In
the middle I pound the tips of two nails (maybe 2 inch nails) just
deep enough to stay. Then I cut the heads of the nails off with wire
cutters.

Put Two mouse traps back-to-back on the board seperated by an inch or
a little more with the nails in the middle and the trigger ends
oriented towards the center. I use a drop of wood glue.

Cut a piece of banana and impale it on the nails, The skin
keeps it on. Cock the traps and put in along a wall. Put another
piece of wood along side to make a runway with no way to avoid
the triggers.

If a mouse is wiggling it's little butt while it's eating the bait
he's going to get caught.

Hmmmm... I wonder if I can get PVC pipes big enough to slide rat traps
into? That would protect my birds.

K.

--
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,,Cat's Haven Hobby Farm,,Katraatcenturyteldotnet,,

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In article ,
"nswong" wrote:

Hi Katra,

I normally hate those things, but I'm also not afraid to just kill
the
rat when I find it in the glue trap so it won't suffer.

I don't like to kill animal, so I just wrap rat with newspaper and
throw it outside our fence to a bush, it will decompose to nothing
left within two months. The glue on rat will stick it with the
newspaper and make it unescapetable. I know this will make the rat
suffer, but as long as I don't see it with my eye, it's OK for me.
Think at it, most of my transplant are lost due to those rats, this
make me feel less guilty.

Rats here like to chew my transplant and even pull the transplant out
from soil.

Regards,
Wong

--
Latitude: 06.10N Longitude: 102.17E Altitude: 5m





I agree...
The rats have made it difficult to transplant corn sprouts! :-P
I usually just toss the trap into a bucket of water and walk away for 10
minutes or so. If I don't have to watch, I can handle it.

When I catch rats by hand, I grab them by the tail and hit them hard
against the nearest cinder block or tree, and that kills them.

The other morning, I found two nests and managed to kill one adult
female and 16 young rats that way. I watch carefully for nesting sites
and clean them out about once every couple of weeks.

K.

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writes:

Hmmmm... I wonder if I can get PVC pipes big enough to slide rat traps
into? That would protect my birds.

PVC is available in just about any size you want. It's what is used for
water lines in most areas, from 1/4-inch to several feet. Decide what
size you want, then contact a plumbing supply store. If you have a United
Pipe & Supply in your area, they will have it for certain.

Another source would be a utilities contractor; perhaps you could get a
scrap or two. Trust me, they have bunches of scraps in various lengths
and diameters (diameter depends on the particular job). You might even
contact your local water department to get some ideas where to find some.

Another use for PVC pipe scraps and joints (tees) is cat climbers though
the tees and wyes in 8-inch or 10-inch size are rather expensive. The
straight pipe isn't too bad for price, but scraps would be better if you
can get them free.

Glenna

writes:

Might be instinctive. :-)
Owl decoys work very well for pest birds, and pigeons!

Non-pest birds, also. LOL

A friend who loves her birds put a very realistic owl in her garden to
keep away pest birds. It was weeks before she realized why her song birds
weren't coming to the feeders. Shortly after she removed the owl, her
song birds returned to the feeders.

Glenna

In article fc.003d094101c55e743b9aca00f3e59f55.1c55e86@pmug. org,
(Glenna Rose) wrote:

writes:

Hmmmm... I wonder if I can get PVC pipes big enough to slide rat traps
into? That would protect my birds.

PVC is available in just about any size you want. It's what is used for
water lines in most areas, from 1/4-inch to several feet. Decide what
size you want, then contact a plumbing supply store. If you have a United
Pipe & Supply in your area, they will have it for certain.

Thanks. :-)
I'll check the local home stores first, then go from there.
This does give me some ideas! The rats are getting seriously out of
hand. :-( Nasty little beasts!


Another source would be a utilities contractor; perhaps you could get a
scrap or two. Trust me, they have bunches of scraps in various lengths
and diameters (diameter depends on the particular job). You might even
contact your local water department to get some ideas where to find some.

Another use for PVC pipe scraps and joints (tees) is cat climbers though
the tees and wyes in 8-inch or 10-inch size are rather expensive. The
straight pipe isn't too bad for price, but scraps would be better if you
can get them free.

Glenna

Hee! I have been putting in more cat furniture.
I need to hit some construction sites for scraps.

There is a local govt. contract recycler, and we got some burlap covered
room dividers from him for $5.00 each. Giant scratching posts and
climbers. Those are out on the sun porch and the cats are slowly
destroying them, but it's well worth it for that price. :-)

K.



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