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Old 17-06-2004, 12:06 AM
Jay
 
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Default Compost Usage

I have horses and an abundant supply of manure. I hot compost the
manure, turning frequently, until it is no longer heating.

My question is, is this a good source of fertilizer, (nitrogen, et.
al.), for my veggie garden? I'm fairly new to gardening but my plants
look rather weak and yellow. I started the garden with lots of
compost but didn't add any other fertilizer. Is compost enough or
not?
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Old 17-06-2004, 09:14 AM
Bob S.
 
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Default Compost Usage

(Jay) wrote in message . com...
I have horses and an abundant supply of manure. I hot compost the
manure, turning frequently, until it is no longer heating.

My question is, is this a good source of fertilizer, (nitrogen, et.
al.), for my veggie garden? I'm fairly new to gardening but my plants
look rather weak and yellow. I started the garden with lots of
compost but didn't add any other fertilizer. Is compost enough or
not?


No. Plant matter passing through an animal's intestine only partially
breaks down. About 20% breakdown for a rabbit, 40% or so for a horse,
and about 60% for a cow. (A cow's is higher because they chew it
twice). So 60% of horse manure is plant material very little different
from when it was eaten.
All plant material requires nitrogen to decompose into compost. If
manure is put into the garden before it is fully composted, it will
pull nitrogen intended for your vegetable plants. A sign this is
happening is your veggie leaves turning yellow. Make sense??
Add some water soluable fertilizer, like miracle grow, to your plants
followed by a slow release granular fertilizer. This will get you
over this year's hump. Start composting your horse manure now for next
year's garden. Because composting material is not hot does *not* mean
it is ready to use. No matter what I do to mine, it produces very
little heat. That is why it takes a year or more to compost all the
way.

Bob S.
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Old 17-06-2004, 01:03 PM
Pat Kiewicz
 
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Default Compost Usage

Jay said:

I have horses and an abundant supply of manure. I hot compost the
manure, turning frequently, until it is no longer heating.

My question is, is this a good source of fertilizer, (nitrogen, et.
al.), for my veggie garden? I'm fairly new to gardening but my plants
look rather weak and yellow. I started the garden with lots of
compost but didn't add any other fertilizer. Is compost enough or
not?


Compost is very, very important, #1 - #5 on the Most Important Thing I Can Do
for My Veggie Garden list.

But it won't neccessarily add everything you need. You may, especially in
a very rainy season*, need to add some other source of nitrogen. Your soil
might have other shortages that compost alone won't correct. That's what
a soil test will help you find out. Ideally, this will test for P, K, Ca, and a few
of the other 'major minor' nutrients. (In the US, these can usually be had for
a reasonablel fee through your county Cooperative Extension Service.)

Organic sources of supplemental nitrogen include blood meal, alfalfa meal
or pellets (my favorite), fish meal and certain fresh manures (but these I suggest
are best added to batches of compost). Foliar sprays with fish emulsion, compost
tea, alfalfa tea, or (my favorite) seaweed are extremely valuable

Shortages of some nutrients can be put into your 'soil bank' through the use of
natural mineral materials which will become available slowly over years.

If you need Calcium, you can add ground limestone (make that dolomitic
limestone if you are also short of magnesium) but in high pH soil, add
gypsum instead, which won't raise the pH any higher.

Greensand is a source many micronutrients, and one major (K, potassium)
that are available very, very slowly.

Ground rock phosphate will add P (slowly rather than quickly).


*Lots of plants looking a bit nitrogen starved around here, due to so much rain.
But at least they aren't swamped, what with the sandy soil I have.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)



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Old 17-06-2004, 06:02 PM
Jay
 
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Default Compost Usage

(Bob S.) wrote in message . com...
(Jay) wrote in message . com...
I have horses and an abundant supply of manure. I hot compost the
manure, turning frequently, until it is no longer heating.

My question is, is this a good source of fertilizer, (nitrogen, et.
al.), for my veggie garden? I'm fairly new to gardening but my plants
look rather weak and yellow. I started the garden with lots of
compost but didn't add any other fertilizer. Is compost enough or
not?


No. Plant matter passing through an animal's intestine only partially
breaks down. About 20% breakdown for a rabbit, 40% or so for a horse,
and about 60% for a cow. (A cow's is higher because they chew it
twice). So 60% of horse manure is plant material very little different
from when it was eaten.
All plant material requires nitrogen to decompose into compost. If
manure is put into the garden before it is fully composted, it will
pull nitrogen intended for your vegetable plants. A sign this is
happening is your veggie leaves turning yellow. Make sense??
Add some water soluable fertilizer, like miracle grow, to your plants
followed by a slow release granular fertilizer. This will get you
over this year's hump. Start composting your horse manure now for next
year's garden. Because composting material is not hot does *not* mean
it is ready to use. No matter what I do to mine, it produces very
little heat. That is why it takes a year or more to compost all the
way.

Bob S.



Bob,

Thanks for the advice, I suspected what you said was very likely my
problem and I am planning a miracle grow treatment for today.

Regarding the slow release granular fertilizer, what type should I
use. I see miracle grow is 15-30-15. Should I look for this or would
a turf fertilizer, which is typically much higher in nitrogen, be more
appropriate?

Thanks again to everybody.
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Old 17-06-2004, 07:02 PM
Randy
 
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Default Compost Usage

I have horses too and have tried using the composted manure. The
problem I had was the bermuda seed. At first I thought regular weeding
would take care of it but once it gets established it takes over the
garden. If you do plan on using horse manure be sure not to compost any
manure for at least a week after worming. I am told that the medication
does not break down when composted and can kill earthworms. -RP

Jay wrote:
I have horses and an abundant supply of manure. I hot compost the
manure, turning frequently, until it is no longer heating.

My question is, is this a good source of fertilizer, (nitrogen, et.
al.), for my veggie garden? I'm fairly new to gardening but my plants
look rather weak and yellow. I started the garden with lots of
compost but didn't add any other fertilizer. Is compost enough or
not?


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Old 17-06-2004, 08:05 PM
Jay Chan
 
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Default Compost Usage

Plant compost is excellent for improving garden soil, but has little
nutritive value. Start to dig in some of your lovely composted manure
by all means.


I am more than a bit alarmed when I read this. I have been using leaf
compost in my backyard vegetable garden. I prepared the compost in my
backyard using tree leaves from last fall. If what you said is true, I
will have to add more fertilizer than what I am adding now. Please
tell me what type of nutritions are available in leaf compost, then I
can supplement whatever that it is lack of. Thanks.

I will use my leaf compost regardless the low nutrition level that it
may have. The reason is that I depend on the compost to improve the
sandy soil in my vegetable garden.

Jay Chan
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Old 17-06-2004, 08:06 PM
Jay Chan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Compost Usage

Plant compost is excellent for improving garden soil, but has little
nutritive value. Start to dig in some of your lovely composted manure
by all means.


I am more than a bit alarmed when I read this. I have been using leaf
compost in my backyard vegetable garden. I prepared the compost in my
backyard using tree leaves from last fall. If what you said is true, I
will have to add more fertilizer than what I am adding now. Please
tell me what type of nutritions are available in leaf compost, then I
can supplement whatever that it is lack of. Thanks.

I will use my leaf compost regardless the low nutrition level that it
may have. The reason is that I depend on the compost to improve the
sandy soil in my vegetable garden.

Jay Chan
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Old 17-06-2004, 09:05 PM
simy1
 
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Default Compost Usage

(Pat Kiewicz) wrote in message ...
Jay said:



But it won't neccessarily add everything you need. You may, especially in
a very rainy season*, need to add some other source of nitrogen. Your soil
might have other shortages that compost alone won't correct. That's what
a soil test will help you find out. Ideally, this will test for P, K, Ca, and a few
of the other 'major minor' nutrients. (In the US, these can usually be had for
a reasonablel fee through your county Cooperative Extension Service.)


Here is my .02 about nutrient content of compost. First the
macronutrients. It depends, of course, on what you did compost. If it
was leaves, the nutrient content will be very low. If it was
woodchips, the N content will be low but the P and K will be at medium
levels. If it was chicken manure, which are fed grains, it will be
very high N/ high P/ low K. Horse manure is basically processed hay
and is at roughly 2/1/2 dry weight (same as cow), which is pretty good
for most everything (assuming a two inch application, one has of order
one gram per square foot of N, P or K).

It is unlikely that local hay, even if the soil is K-poor, will
deviate by much from those fractions (else it won't grow), which is
why I think root burning is more likely than a macro-deficiency.
Likewise, anything coming from hay will be fairly rich in Ca and Mg,
because green stuff has lots of it. So if it is a deficiency it has to
be a real micro-nutrient.

Micronutrients will depend mostly on the soil on which the organic
matter was grown. If your horse eats only local hay, and the local
soil is Boron poor, so will be your compost. If he eats also oats
grown in the Great Plains, some micronutrients will come through. And
if your compost is primarily made of kitchen scraps, all those melon
rinds from Texas and California will also be adding micronutrients
from far away to the brew.


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Old 18-06-2004, 06:13 AM
Square Foot Gardener
 
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Default Compost Usage

Hello, all, I hope this info will be helpful. First, let me mention
that I am a Certified Square Foot Gardening instructor, and have also
written an ebook on composting. That is not to say that I am flawless,
or know all, but I believe I can shed some more light here.

Composting quality does depend on the content put into it. First of
all, to get a good blend for composting, you should use about 2/3
brown material, such as wood byproducts (supplies carbon), and 1/3
green items such as veggies and hedge trimmings for nitrogen. The
nitrogen rich greens will produce heat and nourish the organisms that
will compost the carbon materials. For this reason, it is important to
aerate and mix your compost every couple of weeks. This could take as
little as 3 months if you have a good "hot" composting pile. It needs
to have the right amount of moisture, also.

You want your compost to be a blend of things. First, you should have
about 1/3 plant materials, 1/3 manure such as horse or chicken, and
1/3 greens. That means the 2/3 carbon materials I mentioned above can
be half wood and half manure. Now, about the manure, it is also best
to blend, so you can have cow, horse, and chicken blended. This means
you have an ultimate blend of three types of manure, and three types
of byproducts composting. This will provide *all* the nutrients you
will need for your garden without adding any fertilizers as long as
you do two things:

1. Rotate your planting, rather than planting the same thing in the
same place. Each plant depletes different nutrients

2. Add a good scoop of compost every time you replant.

This has been proven in the Square Foot Gardening method for years,
and people who practice SFG religiously have great success with this.
Of course, you could check out http://www.squarefootslo.com for more
info lol. There was some good information posted in this thread about
nutritional value, and that is why it is important to blend as much as
possible. The nutrients from just one animal in one area will not be
adequate nutrition, nor will simply composting leaves. A good compost
is even hard to find in the stores. You would have to find one with a
blend of items. Leaf mold, or cold composting, is beneficial as well,
but not as complete, and takes much longer.

Miracle grow can burn your plant's roots if not really diluted. It is
a "salt" and can also do damage to the soil with buildup. It is fine
for a quick fix very diluted, and for foliar application, but you are
better off with more natural things like blood meal and bone meal.
They don't last long, but are easily assimilated by the plants faster.
Yellow can be a combination of things, including iron deficiency,
nitrogen, overwatering, sunburn, infestation, depending on what it
looks like and how severe. Straight manure is hot because of the
ammonia in it (urea) and can burn plants if not properly composted.
Composting in a regulated pile will actually kill weed seeds when it
gets up to 140 degrees.

Short answer, yes, *good* compost is enough for your garden if mixed
in sufficient proportion lol.

Randy wrote in message ...
I have horses too and have tried using the composted manure. The
problem I had was the bermuda seed. At first I thought regular weeding
would take care of it but once it gets established it takes over the
garden. If you do plan on using horse manure be sure not to compost any
manure for at least a week after worming. I am told that the medication
does not break down when composted and can kill earthworms. -RP

Jay wrote:
I have horses and an abundant supply of manure. I hot compost the
manure, turning frequently, until it is no longer heating.

My question is, is this a good source of fertilizer, (nitrogen, et.
al.), for my veggie garden? I'm fairly new to gardening but my plants
look rather weak and yellow. I started the garden with lots of
compost but didn't add any other fertilizer. Is compost enough or
not?

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Old 18-06-2004, 07:03 AM
Bob S.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Compost Usage

(Jay) wrote in message . com...
(Bob S.) wrote in message . com...
(Jay) wrote in message . com...
I have horses and an abundant supply of manure. I hot compost the
manure, turning frequently, until it is no longer heating.

My question is, is this a good source of fertilizer, (nitrogen, et.
al.), for my veggie garden? I'm fairly new to gardening but my plants
look rather weak and yellow. I started the garden with lots of
compost but didn't add any other fertilizer. Is compost enough or
not?


No. Plant matter passing through an animal's intestine only partially
breaks down. About 20% breakdown for a rabbit, 40% or so for a horse,
and about 60% for a cow. (A cow's is higher because they chew it
twice). So 60% of horse manure is plant material very little different
from when it was eaten.
All plant material requires nitrogen to decompose into compost. If
manure is put into the garden before it is fully composted, it will
pull nitrogen intended for your vegetable plants. A sign this is
happening is your veggie leaves turning yellow. Make sense??
Add some water soluable fertilizer, like miracle grow, to your plants
followed by a slow release granular fertilizer. This will get you
over this year's hump. Start composting your horse manure now for next
year's garden. Because composting material is not hot does *not* mean
it is ready to use. No matter what I do to mine, it produces very
little heat. That is why it takes a year or more to compost all the
way.

Bob S.



Bob,

Thanks for the advice, I suspected what you said was very likely my
problem and I am planning a miracle grow treatment for today.

Regarding the slow release granular fertilizer, what type should I
use. I see miracle grow is 15-30-15. Should I look for this or would
a turf fertilizer, which is typically much higher in nitrogen, be more
appropriate?

Thanks again to everybody.


The first number, 15, is the nitrogen content, and I wouldn't go
higher than 15 for vegetables. In fact, 10 would probably be ok. The
second number, 30, (potassium if I recall correctly) gives me a little
doubt. If the soil hasn't been fertilized much over the years, 30 is
probably ok. If the soil has received a lot of fertilizer over the
years, it should be much lower. In poorer soil, it promotes a strong
root system for the plants. However, it never ever leaves the soil
and just keeps building up year after year. If it gets too high, it
blocks the roots from absorbing needed nutrients. And there is
absolutely nothing you can do to correct it other than hauling off the
soil and starting over. That's why a soil test is so important.
My property used to be a cotton field and got fertilized heavily every
year. A soil test showed a very high level of potassium. All I can
use on my lawn & garden is 15-0-15. If I had not gotten the soil test,
eventually nothing would grow and I wouldn't know why.
Good luck.

Bob S.
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